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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How will be Switch 2 performance wise?

 

Your expectations

Performance ridiculously ... 0 0%
 
Really below current gen,... 2 100.00%
 
Slightly below current ge... 0 0%
 
On pair with current gen,... 0 0%
 
Total:2
Conina said:
JRPGfan said:


Iphone 15 pro Max, looks like it would need like 4 times its current performance, to match a base PS4 (in this game).
However.... that is still insane.... its a PHONE..... its not ment to be able to match a console, that again, draws 100's of watts of power.

Well, the Steam Deck doesn't draw 100's of Watts, only 15. And it still runs much faster AND looks much better at the same time AND is much cheaper:

Yeah Steam Deck is much closer to PS4 level, than the Iphone is, in performance/graphics.
Steamdeck draws about ~18-24 watts when playing this (depending on settings), and typically only has like ~2 hours of battery life though.

and yes the Steamdeck is a vastly better gameing device, than a Iphone, and for cheaper.



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Hiku said:

And these newer modern portable gaming devices are bigger and heavier than Switch.

Steam Deck for example weighs nearly twice that off an OLED Switch.

  • 398g = Switch LCD (including JoyCons)
  • 420g = Switch OLED (including JoyCons)
  • 640g = Steam Deck OLED
  • 669g = Steam Deck LCD

So the launch Steam Deck is 68% heavier than the launch Switch.
And the Steam Deck OLED is only 52% heavier than a Switch OLED.

Actually the OLED difference is even a bit less according to my kitchen scale.
My Switch OLED weights 424g, my Steam Deck OLED 635g (both including a microSD card), so the Steam Deck OLED is only 50% heavier.

Also the Steam Deck is much more comfortable to hold for adults with "normal sized" hands... if I want similar ergonomics, I use my Switch OLED with Hori Split controllers... which adds some weight. My Steam Deck OLED (635g) is only 33% heavier than my Switch OLED with Hori Split controllers (477g).

And with Hori Split Controllers, the size difference is also negligible:

Last edited by Conina - on 12 January 2024

Jules98 said:

New specs leak just dropped:

Not a leak. It's an unsubstantiated rumor. We need to start knowing the difference, otherwise people start to peddle rumor as fact.

Jules98 said:
  • TSMC N4 node process (4 nanometre?)

TSMC N4 node is advertising. It's NOT 4 nanometer.

TSMC N4 is actually based on it's 5nm technology which ironically has a bigger gate pitch and interconnect pitch than IRDS 7nm definition, take that as you will.
But the scaling just isn't happening at the moment.

Jules98 said:
  • 8-core A78C CPU, clock rates unknown, don't know what's meant by GA10F (this could be the GPU line)

GA10F does refer to a Geforce Ampere class GPU.

Jules98 said:
  • 12 stream multiprocessor GPU, performance ranging from 3.5 to 4.5 TFLOPs docked and 1.7 to 2.0 TFLOPs handheld

Teraflops is meaningless. It's theoretical, not real-world.

Jules98 said:
  • 100GB/s memory bandwidth docked and 88GB/s handheld

720P again confirmed? ;)

Jules98 said:
  • Memory cache specifics uncertain, Tegra GPU cores may be able to access CPU cache

This has been a Tegra feature for some time.

Cache coherency is however, only 1-directional, Tegra X1 in the Switch should be able to do this.

https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/cuda-for-tegra-appnote/index.html

Jules98 said:
  • Display is 8" screen with 1080p and 60hz refresh rate

Good luck getting 1080P happening with 100GB/s of bandwidth.
You will not get the fillrate necessary to drive that.

Jules98 said:
  • Cartridge specifics unknown, but 3D-NAND may provide a cost-effective way to significantly increase storage

And will not last long.

Bitflip is a big issue with NAND, you loose data extremely quickly.
3D NAND would exacerbate that issue.

ROM is the way to go.

Chrkeller said:

Seems reasonable.  I've been expecting the memory bandwidth to be a bottleneck.  100 gb/s for a portable is fair but very slow compared to home consoles.  Ps4 is 176, series s is 225, ps5 is 500 and a good gpu is 700.

As a reference point, steam deck is 88 gb/s.  

I'm sticking with my ps4 like visuals given the bottleneck.  

Steamdeck gets away with it because it's only running 720P levels of resolution.

Keep in mind that Delta Colour Compression is a technology that the Playstation 4 lacks, so that can give Tegra an extra 60% bandwidth boost if the patterns fit with DCC.

Playstation 4 level of capability but with a few extra tricks (Ray Tracing) is the most logical scenario here.

JRPGfan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Arp3H_mgR8



Iphone 15 pro Max, looks like it would need like 4 times its current performance, to match a base PS4 (in this game).
However.... that is still insane.... its a PHONE..... its not ment to be able to match a console, that again, draws 100's of watts of power.

Keep in mind is also running CUSTOM silicon and CUSTOM software to MAXIMISE performance.

You do NOT get that same privilege on other platforms.

Soundwave said:

And again, you have to understand this is not even the max performance, these games are not optimized properly for hardware, with consoles you get a dev team to actually sit down and tailor make a version of a game specifically to one hardware spec, these are just PC games with settings sliders moved around, if a a dedicated dev team actually sat down and worked on a port for like 6-8 months, fine tuning every area of the game just for one piece of hardware, you'd have better performance than this. 

You do realise that is exactly what console developers so? Essentially just move a slider?
Digital Foundry does it all the time and "adjusts" PC sliders to get an identical visual representation of the console release and gets those games running on equivalent PC hardware.


RedKingXIII said:

Personally, I'm expecting it to be a lot more powerful than a PS4, just like the Switch was way ahead of the PS3. It won't be as powerful as the PS5, but the power gap between the Switch 2 and the PS5 will be smaller than the power gap between the Switch 1 and the PS4.

It doesn't need to match PS4 specs to beat it.

"weaker" hardware on paper today is leagues ahead of "faster" hardware from 10+ years ago, efficiency does actually improve, which is why the Switch is able to beat a Playstation 3, WiiU and Xbox 360, nVidia Maxwell is just a significantly more efficient chip despite the "flops" not representing that visual leap.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Storage is going to be very interesting. Rebirth is 150 gb with high quality textures... how portables handle this will be curious. And I wouldn't expect square to bother with compression. First party games will be fine because Nintendo actually leverages compressed files.

Edit

And Pemalite is exactly right and knows the details better than I.  The memory bandwidth is going to be a bottleneck and keep resolution, high quality assets and fps lower than home hardware.  We are looking at a ps4+bells/whistles.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 12 January 2024

Zippy6 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

MicroSD cards will probably be too slow by that point for many games, especially for texture streaming. M.2 2230 SSDs would be better and also cheaper past 256GB than MicroSD cards, but also much larger and more difficult to handle for most clients. As such I think Nintendo could come up with their own propietary standard that would be fast enough but also just as easy to handle as an SD card or a cartridge.

Awwww hell no. Let's not repeat the mistake of the Xbox Series SSD's or the Vita memory cards. Proprietary always shafts consumers on value.

Compared to M.2 SSDs, that would certainly be true. But like I said, they're not exactly designed to be handled by children or to be constantly swapped.

SD cards with more than 256GB are rare and expensive, plus they are very slow - too slow for modern games unless they're the very expensive and extremely rare SD Express cards (which, like SSDs and CFexpress cards, are based on PCi Express). In fact, I could barely find any SD card that's faster than UHS-I here which can barely compete with hard drives in terms of speed, and thise I found were all just UHS-II, so basically a bit faster than your average old HDD, but far slower than modern SSDs.

CFexpress cards are also expensive (512GB start at ~250€, 400€ for 1TB, 650€ for 2TB), and relatively rare. But at least those would be fast (comparable to M.2 SSDs, as both are based on PCI Express) and much easier to store and handle than M.2 SSDs. Their main problem apart of the price is that they come in 3 different sizes, so there may easily be some major confusion when buying a card and it doesn't fit.

UFS cards are even rarer (I couldn't even find any on friggin' Amazon!) and as such probably also expensive as hell... if they're even still in production, as the built-in standard is several levels more recent than the cards. And that's despite the first cards got produced in 2020...

In short, there ain't no perfect standard for removable storage for a Nintendo handheld. M.2's are not supposed to be taken out and replaced all the time, and children could easily mishandle them, SD cards are too slow and pretty expensive past 256GB, CFexpress are great for the use case but expensive, harder to come by and with confusing sizes, and UFS cards haven't been seen in the wild. As such, it could be easier (and potentially even cheaper for non-tech-savvy consumers who don't know how to handle M.2s) if Nintendo makes their own storage.



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I could be mistaken but doesn't M2 run really hot?  Not sure mobile can effectively cool.



Pemalite said:
Soundwave said:

And again, you have to understand this is not even the max performance, these games are not optimized properly for hardware, with consoles you get a dev team to actually sit down and tailor make a version of a game specifically to one hardware spec, these are just PC games with settings sliders moved around, if a a dedicated dev team actually sat down and worked on a port for like 6-8 months, fine tuning every area of the game just for one piece of hardware, you'd have better performance than this. 

You do realise that is exactly what console developers so? Essentially just move a slider?
Digital Foundry does it all the time and "adjusts" PC sliders to get an identical visual representation of the console release and gets those games running on equivalent PC hardware.

Yeah, especially since the popularity of cross-gen games and since console gamers expect a choice between performance and quality.

Some crossgen Playstation games have presets for: PS4 quality mode, PS4 performance mode, PS4 Pro quality mode, PS4 Pro performance mode, PS5 RT quality mode (30fps target), PS5 RT performance mode (40fps or 60fps target), PS5 ultra performance mode (60fps or 120 fps target)... perhaps even a PSVR2 mode.

Xbox "One+" games need at least 4 presets: Xbox One S, Xbox One X,  Xbox Series S, Xbox Series X.

Xbox Series games without Xbox One support usually have at least 3 presets: Series S, Series X quality mode and Series X performance mode.

Switch games need at least 2 presets (docked and undocked).

Crossgen Switch games probably need at least 4 presets: Switch 1 docked, Switch 1 undocked, Switch 2 docked, Switch 2 undocked



Asking the other way around.. how likely is it that Switch 2 will not face the issue that games are not released on the system due to its specs?
Because that is what I want Nintendo to avoid at all cost. There should not be even one instance where you have to purchase a 2nd system because a multiplatform 3rd party game skips the system. That is my wish.



TeachMeHisty said:

Asking the other way around.. how likely is it that Switch 2 will not face the issue that games are not released on the system due to its specs?
Because that is what I want Nintendo to avoid at all cost. There should not be even one instance where you have to purchase a 2nd system because a multiplatform 3rd party game skips the system. That is my wish.

I obviously don’t think it will be on par with PS5/Series in specs but it would be really nice if it’s powerful enough to run all/most 3rd party games at lower resolution/framerate/effects, etc.

If it’s a PS4+ with more modern architecture/tools than I think it should be able to considering most games still have PS4/XBO versions.

Just because it can run a game doesn’t necessarily mean 3rd parties will bring them over though, like it took a developer trying to port the Crash remakes on his free time for Activision to go ahead and greenlight it so who knows.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

TeachMeHisty said:

Asking the other way around.. how likely is it that Switch 2 will not face the issue that games are not released on the system due to its specs?
Because that is what I want Nintendo to avoid at all cost. There should not be even one instance where you have to purchase a 2nd system because a multiplatform 3rd party game skips the system. That is my wish.

There will still be third party games skipping the Switch 2 even if power isn't an obstacle. The power of the Switch wasn't an obstacle in porting GTA V, a ps3/360 game, to it but that never happened.