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Forums - Nintendo - How Will be Switch 2 Performance Wise?

 

Switch 2 is out! How you classify?

Terribly outdated! 3 5.26%
 
Outdated 1 1.75%
 
Slightly outdated 14 24.56%
 
On point 31 54.39%
 
High tech! 7 12.28%
 
A mixed bag 1 1.75%
 
Total:57
curl-6 said:

Star Wars Outlaws is quite a demanding game, hitting just 720p-1080p in performance mode on PS5/Series X, (and on Series S at 30fps) and 1134p-1620p in quality mode with dips.

It's one of those ports like say Kingdom Come Deliverance or Hogwarts Legacy on Switch 1 where on paper it looks like a bridge too far.

The footage shown here does look quite rough, but they have another 4 and a half months to polish and optimize it, so we'll see where we stand in September. As JRPGfan says, the game itself is lame so I won't be buying it either way, but it should be interesting from an academic perspective at least.

Yes with drops to 720p30 on a Series S it's going to be interesting to see what sacrifices they're making to get it to be playable on the Switch 2 undocked. Switch 2 docked is one thing, but handheld is going to be substantially below the Series S in power.

Maybe they have completely redone the lighting, because for the currently released versions of Outlaws raytracing is mandatory, if you unofficially force it off on PC you get no shadows or anything lol. Ray Tracing is the only lighting system in the game. I wouldn't really know from looking at that footage though, could just be RT on low.

Considering it's Ubisoft I wouldn't put it past them to show docked footage as if it was handheld in a teaser trailer like that lol.



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Zippy6 said:
curl-6 said:

Star Wars Outlaws is quite a demanding game, hitting just 720p-1080p in performance mode on PS5/Series X, (and on Series S at 30fps) and 1134p-1620p in quality mode with dips.

It's one of those ports like say Kingdom Come Deliverance or Hogwarts Legacy on Switch 1 where on paper it looks like a bridge too far.

The footage shown here does look quite rough, but they have another 4 and a half months to polish and optimize it, so we'll see where we stand in September. As JRPGfan says, the game itself is lame so I won't be buying it either way, but it should be interesting from an academic perspective at least.

Yes with drops to 720p30 on a Series S it's going to be interesting to see what sacrifices they're making to get it to be playable on the Switch 2 undocked. Switch 2 docked is one thing, but handheld is going to be substantially below the Series S in power.

Maybe they have completely redone the lighting, because for the currently released versions of Outlaws raytracing is mandatory, if you unofficially force it off on PC you get no shadows or anything lol. Ray Tracing is the only lighting system in the game. I wouldn't really know from looking at that footage though, could just be RT on low.

Considering it's Ubisoft I wouldn't put it past them to show docked footage as if it was handheld in a teaser trailer like that lol.

If I had to guess I'd say they'll probably strip out ray tracing and redo the lighting, kinda like COD on Wii stripped out all the programmable shaders of the PS3/360 versions.

Granted, unlike Wii with programmable shaders, the Switch 2 actually does have ray tracing capability, but with a game that's already so demanding in a lot of other ways I don't think they'd be the necessary headroom for it.

For undocked mode, I would suspect we'll see the res drop below 720p as it did in many demanding Switch 1 ports.

It could be either a technical miracle or a complete train wreck, time will tell.



It really wouldn't make sense for then to retool the lighting system for Switch 2. Ray tracing is the one area where Switch 2 should output above its paper specs, with support for Ray Reconstruction and Ampere being a generation or even two ahead of RDNA 2 even without it. That and the fact that it would take a long time to put together a baked lighting system true to the game, much longer than the September release hints at. We don't see anything like that in the trailer.

I expect the "compromise" is that the game uses DLSS and runs at a pretty low internal resolution.

Also the big bottleneck would probably be the CPU in a title like this, so you'll likely see compromises in dynamic asset density and other CPU heavy areas.

Any game with mandatory ray-tracing should shrink the gap between the Switch 2 and Series S, not increase it.

Edit: Just looked at the trailer again. There is definitely a dynamic lighting system, and it looks like at least raytraced shadows exist. Look at the scene on the bridge. You can see an enemy move and the shadows adjust pretty much as you'd expect in a game with ray traced shadows (albeit at a very low resolution, it looks like.)

Edit 2: You also see what almost certainly are raytraced reflections in that scene. The orange and red lights from the guns reflect off the wet surface dynamically and realistically. You see the orange even on the parts of the bridge that weren't lit before, like near the playable character. 

Notice the light reflecting off the storm trooper's shin onto the bridge surface. 

vs before being hit. 

Last edited by sc94597 - on 20 April 2025

By the way, Digital Foundry just confirmed that this game has RT and confirmed with CPDR that Cyberpunk 2077 uses DLSS, in all four modes (handheld, docked, performance, and quality for each.)

"On the visual front I think it looks all right, clearly they've retained Ray-Tracing. You can see some ray-tracing noise, it looks like, on the railing there." (57:50 - 58:04) "So presumably we are looking at handheld footage." (58:44-58:46)

Last edited by sc94597 - on 20 April 2025

sc94597 said:

By the way, Digital Foundry just confirmed that this game has RT and confirmed with CPDR that Cyberpunk 2077 uses DLSS, in all four modes (handheld, docked, performance, and quality for each.)

"On the visual front I think it looks all right, clearly they've retained Ray-Tracing. You can see some ray-tracing noise, it looks like, on the railing there." (57:50 - 58:04) "So presumably we are looking at handheld footage." (58:44-58:46)

Cyberpunk:
Yep output is 1080p and it uses DSR from 540p and up.
The DLSS type it is running seems to be a differnt model than the ones Nvidia uses normally.
They think its a "super light" model, and the low resolutions and motion blurr, hid it from them.
(ei. the quality was so low, they didn't think it used DLSS at first).

Starwars Outlaws:
Part of the footage they showed in the direct was not captured on a Switch 2, says DF.
One of the parts where the main character is shooting at star troopers, they counted out 19fps.
Oliver said typically trailers showcase a game at its best, and this was not its best, in his opinion.
Alex says they probably shouldn't have shown the game off, as is, because every reception he has seen has been "that looks rough".
they think it is running the game with RT (it would be too much work, apparently to redo it without), just with the absolute minimums possible.
Again this game doesn't run fantastically on the PS5 or XSX either.
Alex think this is in the realm of a impossible port, calls it "very ambitious".



*edit: Update:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2Rs_g4c4ko&t=255s

Remember the game isn't out yet.... but in one of the most demanding parts of the game, they tested, it drops "well below 30fps".
We're probably looking at low 20's or below 20 fps, in that footage.
There is still time to work on it before release but, yeah, that 30fps mode isn't going to be a flawless 30fps everywhere.

DF might have a newer build, than the one shown in the showcase.
A area that showed issue in the showcase, they tested and it ran better.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 20 April 2025

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JRPGfan said:

The DLSS type it is running seems to be a differnt model than the ones Nvidia uses normally.
They think its a "super light" model, and the low resolutions and motion blurr, hid it from them.
(ei. the quality was so low, they didn't think it used DLSS at first).

Just want to point out that this isn't exactly what they said. A "legendary super light model" based on "Nintendo's patents" was one of the speculated possibilities posed in the question, but not something speculated about in the analysis much at all. 

The conclusion actually made, was that because the post-processing effects are done at sub-native resolution and introduce much more dominant aliasing, it was hard for them to notice DLSS-specific aliasing patterns. They never said they think there is evidence for "a super light model". 

A lot of this is also based on the assumption that the game uses a CNN model (or the Switch 2 is incapable of using ViT's) and the artifacts from that model are going to show up as such. But ViTs are scalable by parameter count just like CNN models, and there is no reason to believe that they couldn't have trained (or, more likely, quantized) a lower-parameter ViT model than what Nvidia has for PC's which aren't over-utilized by the tensor cores and give better output. Heck, it still isn't clear that the Switch 2's tensor cores are even a bottleneck. Alex did find the sort of CNN model artifact he was looking for, but that could just be confirmation bias now that he knows that DLSS is there, in fact, or it could be something that shows up in a lower-parameter ViT model. 

All of this is to say that they are going to have to see more Switch 2 implementations of DLSS to be able to reliably identify it in Switch 2 games.

Edit: I train ML and DL models for a living. Nvidia almost certainly has dozens to hundreds of trained model revisions for each one they actually release, at different parameter counts and which have different artifacts in their output. They probably do this for both CNN and ViT's (as well as hybrid compact transformers.) 

For PC they pick one that targets the minimum expected hardware, say an RTX 2050, but they could pick something different that is better suited for Switch 2 as a platform if the tensor cores are over-utilized. We've already seen that they have tailored different ViT models to have different preferred artifacts.

Last edited by sc94597 - on 20 April 2025

Just look at Nintendo's own webpage and official marketing for the Switch 2 ... the entire emphasis is on higher resolution (up to 4K) and things like 120 FPS modes being the main new features of Switch 2:

https://www.nintendo.com/us/gaming-systems/switch-2/features/

See what's new with
Nintendo Switch 2
The next evolution of the Nintendo Switch system is here!

Bring games to life with a larger 1080p screen—or connect to a TV and play in up to 4K resolution*. Support for HDR and frame rates up to 120 fps let you enjoy vivid color, clarity, and smooth gameplay.

Snap the new Joy-Con™ 2 controllers into place with magnetic connectors. Each controller can even be used as a mouse in compatible games.

Experience new, exclusive games like Mario Kart™ World only on Nintendo Switch 2. Plus, you can enjoy compatible games from your Nintendo Switch library**.


This is very obviously a new hardware era for Nintendo, the Wii/DS/Wii U/3DS era is long over, they never talked about technical features like this for those hardware lines, now tech features like 4K/120 FPS/VRR are front and center in their marketing. I think there will be a Switch 2 Pro this product cycle too, they didn't need it last time with COVID stopping supply chains circa 2020-2021 and lockdowns providing a massive sales boost on their own, but this gen will be different. 

Now that they've embraced things like higher frame rate screens as a standard for example having a future model that allows for even higher frame rate and resolution I think is just a no brainer and fits into the product identity of the Switch 2 very easily. 

Understand that many/most of the execs from the DS-Wii era (now 20+ years ago) are retired, the hardware lead for that era of consoles is not even with the company any longer. The new generation of people running the company are much younger and I believe have different ideas on hardware. It's very obvious that I think a lot of the modern Nintendo designers grew up not only with Nintendo systems, but Playstation also and aren't afraid to do things like simply call hardware Switch 2 (previously a no-go for Nintendo hardware). 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 20 April 2025

If Outlaws does indeed utilize ray tracing on Switch 2 that'd be impressive, given everything else it has going on and how it runs on much stronger hardware.

Regarding current gen only titles, Split Fiction and Kunitsu-gami, while less demanding than Star Wars, will also offer an interesting look at how Switch 2 can handle pure 9th gen console titles.



Switch 2 Pro vs Playstation Portable vs SteamDeck 2 vs Xbox Portable will be fun!

Now that I think of it, a mid-gen upgrade is a good opportunity for Nintendo to use "Super" in the name. "Super Switch 2" sounds perfect. Except it implies the existence of a Super Switch 1...

Last edited by Kyuu - on 20 April 2025

They could just release a "Pro" Dock witch some eGPU in it. Slam some mid-tier Nvidia GPU into it, sell it for the same price as the console itself and I think they would have quite a nice offering and most certainly a bigger jump than just an all new handheld in a few years.

But whatever, what do I know.



唯一無二のRolStoppableに認められた、VGCの任天堂ファミリーの正式メンバーです。光栄に思います。