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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - VGC: Switch 2 Was Shown At Gamescom Running Matrix Awakens UE5 Demo

My hope is that Switch 2 will have a lot more headroom when docked. I think I'm right in saying that Switch only consumes 2 more watts when docked than in handheld (11 vs 9W). The ROG ally can draw up to 30W when plugged in. Even if Switch won't reach that level, it has the advantage of not having to power its screen when docked (hence why S1 only draws 2 more watts even though it's doubling the GPU's clock).

If when docked the Switch 2 could treble or quadruple it's clocks then we could be looking at a bit of a beast, as shown above a lot of the limitations inherent to mobile platforms stem from the necessity of low power draw.

Failing that I really hope (most likely in vain) that N just release a non-handheld version that doesn't need to compromise on power draw/cooling. They could sell it for half the price (due to not needing to worry about a screen/battery/joy-cons etc.) & it could perform significantly better than the handheld version using the exact same chipset. They'd be able to make it super dinky and adoreable - it'd sell like hot-cakes. Why they didn't do this with Switch 1 is beyond me, if they had I'd wager they'd already be the number 1 selling console of all time...

EDIT;

Switch 1 can actually draw 16W, though that's when it is also charging the battery. When the battery is full it draws 11W, which is being used solely to drive the chipset, so remains the relevant figure.

Last edited by Biggerboat1 - on 10 November 2023

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zeldaring said:
Chrkeller said:

RE8 on the iPhone runs "like a drunken frog" was one of my favorite comments....  even with low quality lighting and low quality shadows.. .  And RE8 isn't even a demanding game.  I feel even more comfortable that people need to have realistic expectations for the mobile hardware, including switch 2.

But I thought mobile was matching X series s now and switch 2 would match it easily lmao. Same story every time always over hyping the hardware by wishful thinking and trying to sound like they know what they are talking about when it's just wishful thinking 

Yep and for the life of me I don't understand why people fall for it over and over.

And one of the main points about the switch 2 closing the graphic gap is upscaling....  check out Alan wake 2....  it relies heavily on upscaling on consoles and PC.  Meaning the switch 2 won't be able to touch alan wake 2 without massive compromise.  



Chrkeller said:
zeldaring said:

But I thought mobile was matching X series s now and switch 2 would match it easily lmao. Same story every time always over hyping the hardware by wishful thinking and trying to sound like they know what they are talking about when it's just wishful thinking 

Yep and for the life of me I don't understand why people fall for it over and over.

And one of the main points about the switch 2 closing the graphic gap is upscaling....  check out Alan wake 2....  it relies heavily on upscaling on consoles and PC.  Meaning the switch 2 won't be able to touch alan wake 2 without massive compromise.  

The only thing I'd add (and I'm by no means an expert) is that Alan Wake 2 is using a mixture of low, medium & high settings on PS5 & Series X so that leaves quite a bit of headroom.

Minimum spec is apparently an RTX 2060, and the DF are comparing the Switch 2 to an RTX 2050 Mobile (albeit downclocked - in handheld mode at least). They added a bunch of caveats that the Switch 2 chipset will add an array of features from more modern NVIDIA GPUs and that there may also be some 'secret sauce' thrown in for good measure. For instance, Matrix Awakens was supposedly running on Switch 2, whereas DF couldn't manage that on the RTX 2050. 

Add to the equation that if Switch 2 retains a 720p display, they'll be able to get away with sub-720p resolutions and have it still look decent with DLSS (in handheld). Also, DLSS is considered to be superior to FSR2, so there's that... Lastly, console ports tend to be more optimised.

In summary, could Alan Wake 2 receive a decent port on Switch 2 - I have have no idea, maybe...



Would be cool to see an image generated of what a Nintendo game could look like with certain specs on a system, and have that same imagine altered depending on other hypothetical specs.

Like, here's an in-engine 3d Mario game with DLSS 2.1. And here is the same engine with DLSS 3.5. Wonder if there is an AI tool that can do that. Just so we can actually see what the potential graphical level will look like for the upcoming system based on rumored specs.



Upon further googling the consensus seems to be that the Series S's GPU is equivalent to a GTX 1650, which actually benches worse than the RTX 2050 Laptop. I think there's no question that a power starved 2050, running in handheld mode, will run slower than the Series S GPU, however if docked it can run at a full 30W then maybe it's not crazy to believe that a Switch 2 could be in the same ballpark as Series S...

Incidentally, DF also describes Alan Wake 2 on Series S, as 'perfectly fine'. It runs at approximately the same settings as the Series X performance mode, but at 30fps and with a slightly lower internal resolution. So unless I'm off with some of the above, a docked S2 may well be able to deliver a perfectly acceptable experience. In handheld, if the internal res is reduced to 540p or lower, who knows...

All this supposes that S2's GPU is built on the same 8nm process as the 2050. If however it's moved to a more modern node then that will only work in S2's favour.



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Biggerboat1 said:

Upon further googling the consensus seems to be that the Series S's GPU is equivalent to a GTX 1650, which actually benches worse than the RTX 2050 Laptop. I think there's no question that a power starved 2050, running in handheld mode, will run slower than the Series S GPU, however if docked it can run at a full 30W then maybe it's not crazy to believe that a Switch 2 could be in the same ballpark as Series S...

For games, the 45W RTX 2050 is faster than the 1650, but the 30W version is slower. Both the 45W 2050 and the 1650 are comparable to the AMD-made RX 6400, which should still be some 10% slower than the Series S GPU.

Mind, the Switch as a whole consumes 15W when docked. There's still a large gap to make up unless they're going for a smaller node or higher power consumption.



 

 

 

 

 

haxxiy said:
Biggerboat1 said:

Upon further googling the consensus seems to be that the Series S's GPU is equivalent to a GTX 1650, which actually benches worse than the RTX 2050 Laptop. I think there's no question that a power starved 2050, running in handheld mode, will run slower than the Series S GPU, however if docked it can run at a full 30W then maybe it's not crazy to believe that a Switch 2 could be in the same ballpark as Series S...

For games, the 45W RTX 2050 is faster than the 1650, but the 30W version is slower. Both the 45W 2050 and the 1650 are comparable to the AMD-made RX 6400, which should still be some 10% slower than the Series S GPU.

Mind, the Switch as a whole consumes 15W when docked. There's still a large gap to make up unless they're going for a smaller node or higher power consumption.

I get the impression you're a good deal more knowledgeable than me on this stuff, but the GPU comparison charts I can see point to the 2050 mobile being 10 to 20% faster than the 1650...

https://www.gpucheck.com/nvidia-gpu-hierarchy-list-chart

Having another search for Series S equivalent GPU's, there seems to be a split between 1650 & 1650 super, so fair enough I guess.

Re. your last point, yeah, I think a lot will hinge on the node they opt for. It seems very un-Nintendo like to be running hot at a full 30W given the cooling on the Switch 2 will likely be less performant than a laptop. If they end up on smaller process then it's more likely that they'll target higher clocks.

My takeaway from this though is that if N do opt for a smaller node, the Swicth 2 matching Series S whilst docked is a lot less 'pie-in-the-sky' than I initially thought.



Biggerboat1 said:

DF also posted an interesting video, deducing what Switch 2's approximate performance will look like based on all leaks/rumours.

To me it looks great, though think that it'll fall short of some peeps expectations;

Interesting that they use the RTX 2050. As I've said earlier in this thread, I think that is a good target for what we should expect the Switch 2 to achieve. 

The Switch 2's GPU likely will have lower GPU clocks than the 2050, but the extra VRAM (4GB is not enough for 1080p anymore, Switch 2 will likely have somewhere between 6 and 12 GB available for graphics) and closed-platform likely give it an advantage in many titles over the 2050. 

I'd also expect a die-shrink given the previous discussion over power requirements and cost. 



haxxiy said:

For games, the 45W RTX 2050 is faster than the 1650, but the 30W version is slower. Both the 45W 2050 and the 1650 are comparable to the AMD-made RX 6400, which should still be some 10% slower than the Series S GPU.

Mind, the Switch as a whole consumes 15W when docked. There's still a large gap to make up unless they're going for a smaller node or higher power consumption.

Given that many titles become VRAM bottlenecked on 4GB chips these days, that is something also to consider. Switch 2 will almost certainly have more than 4GB of memory available for graphics. 



Mostly likely ps4 power with dlss and ssd