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Forums - Nintendo - Super Switch

KLXVER said:
zorg1000 said:

You seem to be mistaking correlation with causation, it’s like saying Sony should stick to even numbers because PS2/PS4 sold better than PS1/PS3 or that consoles that sell over 150 million will have successors that sell roughly half (PS2/DS to PS3/3DS). I’m sure we can find other silly examples of technically true statements that have no relevance.

No, Wii U does not represent the Nintendo core gamer. You cannot ignore Nintendo’s more successful device that made up ~85% of their hardware & ~80% of their software sales that generation. For many Nintendo fans there was no reason to purchase a $300 Wii U for games like NSMBU, 3D World, MK8, SSB4, WW/TP HD when you could get a 3DS for roughly half that with games like NSMB2, 3D Land, MK7, SSB4, OoT/MM 3D and a bunch of other big hits like Pokémon, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, Luigi’s Mansion, etc. It’s like saying Vita represents the core PlayStation gamer while ignoring PS4.

At the end of the day its just opinions. I cant prove what I say is true and you cant prove what you say is true. We can only believe what we think might be true.

Ill give you the WII U argument though. I admit that is a flawed argument from my part.

Sure it’s opinions but we have the power of hindsight where we can look back and analyze various things that happened during previous generations to create informed opinions. Taking a single trend and ignoring the other variables isn’t a good way to come to a conclusion.

For 3DS & Wii U, I agree that their names were a factor as they did not do enough to indicate that they were brand new consoles, the average person could easily mistake 3DS for a DS revision with a 3D screen or think Wii U was a tablet accessory for Wii but there were clearly other very large issues on top of that so they would have had large declines regardless of name.

As for Super Nintendo & Gameboy Advance, I would really like to hear how those were poor names that contributed to their declines from NES/GB or why GameCube did so poorly despite having a completely unique name from previous consoles.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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zorg1000 said:
KLXVER said:

At the end of the day its just opinions. I cant prove what I say is true and you cant prove what you say is true. We can only believe what we think might be true.

Ill give you the WII U argument though. I admit that is a flawed argument from my part.

Sure it’s opinions but we have the power of hindsight where we can look back and analyze various things that happened during previous generations to create informed opinions. Taking a single trend and ignoring the other variables isn’t a good way to come to a conclusion.

For 3DS & Wii U, I agree that their names were a factor as they did not do enough to indicate that they were brand new consoles, the average person could easily mistake 3DS for a DS revision with a 3D screen or think Wii U was a tablet accessory for Wii but there were clearly other very large issues on top of that so they would have had large declines regardless of name.

As for Super Nintendo & Gameboy Advance, I would really like to hear how those were poor names that contributed to their declines from NES/GB or why GameCube did so poorly despite having a completely unique name from previous consoles.

Well do you think the GC would have done better if it was called N64 2 or the Super N64?

Also I dont ignore other factors. All Im saying is the naming of a console seems to be A factor in why these systems do less than their predecessors. I believe if the Wii U was called the Nintendo Fusion for example(sorry I suck at naming consoles) I think it would have sold more. It wouldnt have the negative association that comes with the name Wii. From confusing or feeling unnecessary to casuals and making core gamers think of casual games and shovelware. Now I dont think it would have made the system a success, but I think more people would have given it a chance.



Slownenberg said:
KLXVER said:

I think they may drop the Switch name. It just confused people with the Wii U. The important thing is that people know its from Nintendo. I dont think the Switch name carries a lot of weight when it come to their next console.

Couldn't disagree more. People didn't buy Wii U cuz it was a weird singe-controller asynchronous-play system that few people had any desire for, that also tried to be a direct sequel to the Wii despite the Wii having lost most of its popularity by the time it was replaced. Wii U failure had nothing at all to do with people confused by the name. Anyone interested enough to potentially spend hundreds of dollars on a video game system can do a <5 minute internet search to look up what the Wii U was. Also, if people were confused by the name then every generation people would be horribly confused by Xbox (360?!, 1?!, Series S/X?!).

The whole idea that people were confused by the name is just an excuse to not admit that Nintendo F'd up big time with the entire concept of the Wii U and Nintendo was either unwilling or unable to change concepts for the next system once the every game having motion controls fad started to fade by the Wii's fourth year. If everyone was still demanding motion control games last decade, if people were really excited about the game pad and that async gameplay setup, and if they had a killer app like Wii Sports at launch again, the Wii U would have been a smash hit. But instead it had none of those things. Name had nothing to do with it. Saying people were confused about the name would be like saying 3DS didn't do as well as DS because people were confused about its name, ignoring the obvious flaws in the system (an expensive feature that people didn't really care about, along with mobile phones starting to take away the market for low end handheld systems).

I don't think the Switch holds as strong a brand name as the Wii (temporarily) did, but its still a strong name. Switch is basically what Nintendo is now. If they are doing another hybrid, and I can't imagine they aren't, there is no reason whatsoever to move away from the Switch name. It would be very weird to move away from the Switch name if they are coming out with a direct hybrid system sequel to the Switch. They definitely are gonna want to keep the Switch brand as changing it would purely be a negative move for them.

I am 100% in agreement with you. The whole notion that human beings can’t understand what new generations of hardware are unless it’s numbered feels like an insult to human intelligence. The cope/excuse is absurd to the point of nonsense. We’re Homo sapiens, not capuchin monkeys… most of us :)

The Wii U was also one of the most heavily marketed consoles at launch, with kiosks all over the place. People knew what it was, and if they didn’t, why weren’t there mass sales of Wii U games for the Wii? Why were the old Wii games still outselling all the much more heavily marketed Wii U games? And when people did buy Wii U games, they were for the Wii U console. The answer is simple, we’re not capuchin monkeys!

Last edited by Jumpin - on 05 September 2023

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
Slownenberg said:

Couldn't disagree more. People didn't buy Wii U cuz it was a weird singe-controller asynchronous-play system that few people had any desire for, that also tried to be a direct sequel to the Wii despite the Wii having lost most of its popularity by the time it was replaced. Wii U failure had nothing at all to do with people confused by the name. Anyone interested enough to potentially spend hundreds of dollars on a video game system can do a <5 minute internet search to look up what the Wii U was. Also, if people were confused by the name then every generation people would be horribly confused by Xbox (360?!, 1?!, Series S/X?!).

The whole idea that people were confused by the name is just an excuse to not admit that Nintendo F'd up big time with the entire concept of the Wii U and Nintendo was either unwilling or unable to change concepts for the next system once the every game having motion controls fad started to fade by the Wii's fourth year. If everyone was still demanding motion control games last decade, if people were really excited about the game pad and that async gameplay setup, and if they had a killer app like Wii Sports at launch again, the Wii U would have been a smash hit. But instead it had none of those things. Name had nothing to do with it. Saying people were confused about the name would be like saying 3DS didn't do as well as DS because people were confused about its name, ignoring the obvious flaws in the system (an expensive feature that people didn't really care about, along with mobile phones starting to take away the market for low end handheld systems).

I don't think the Switch holds as strong a brand name as the Wii (temporarily) did, but its still a strong name. Switch is basically what Nintendo is now. If they are doing another hybrid, and I can't imagine they aren't, there is no reason whatsoever to move away from the Switch name. It would be very weird to move away from the Switch name if they are coming out with a direct hybrid system sequel to the Switch. They definitely are gonna want to keep the Switch brand as changing it would purely be a negative move for them.

I am 100% in agreement with you. The whole notion that human beings can’t understand what new generations of hardware are unless it’s numbered feels like an insult to human intelligence. We’re Homo sapiens, not capuchin monkeys… most of us :)

The Wii U was also one of the most heavily marketed consoles at launch, with kiosks all over the place. People knew what it was, and if they didn’t, why weren’t there mass sales of Wii U games for the Wii? Why were the old Wii games still outselling all the much more heavily marketed Wii U games? The answer is simple, we’re not capuchin monkeys!

Tell that to the flat-earthers...



Jumpin said:
Slownenberg said:

I am 100% in agreement with you. The whole notion that human beings can’t understand what new generations of hardware are unless it’s numbered feels like an insult to human intelligence. The cope/excuse is absurd to the point of nonsense. We’re Homo sapiens, not capuchin monkeys… most of us :)

The Wii U was also one of the most heavily marketed consoles at launch, with kiosks all over the place. People knew what it was, and if they didn’t, why weren’t there mass sales of Wii U games for the Wii? Why were the old Wii games still outselling all the much more heavily marketed Wii U games? And when people did buy Wii U games, they were for the Wii U console. The answer is simple, we’re not capuchin monkeys!

It's well known that the Wii U confused a lot of people. Many were confused after its reveal at E3 2011 and those were proper gamers. If I remember right someone on this forum gifted someone a Wii U but it sat unused in a closet cause he thought it was just a Wii accessory and was wondering why Nintendo waited so long to release a new home console after the Wii so thought they followed the Wii up with the Switch. It wouldn't have saved the Wii U but I bet that if it was called something like the Wii 2 it would've done at least as well as the Gamecube.



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KLXVER said:
Jumpin said:

I am 100% in agreement with you. The whole notion that human beings can’t understand what new generations of hardware are unless it’s numbered feels like an insult to human intelligence. We’re Homo sapiens, not capuchin monkeys… most of us :)

The Wii U was also one of the most heavily marketed consoles at launch, with kiosks all over the place. People knew what it was, and if they didn’t, why weren’t there mass sales of Wii U games for the Wii? Why were the old Wii games still outselling all the much more heavily marketed Wii U games? The answer is simple, we’re not capuchin monkeys!

Tell that to the flat-earthers...

Touché



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Norion said:
Jumpin said:

I am 100% in agreement with you. The whole notion that human beings can’t understand what new generations of hardware are unless it’s numbered feels like an insult to human intelligence. The cope/excuse is absurd to the point of nonsense. We’re Homo sapiens, not capuchin monkeys… most of us :)

The Wii U was also one of the most heavily marketed consoles at launch, with kiosks all over the place. People knew what it was, and if they didn’t, why weren’t there mass sales of Wii U games for the Wii? Why were the old Wii games still outselling all the much more heavily marketed Wii U games? And when people did buy Wii U games, they were for the Wii U console. The answer is simple, we’re not capuchin monkeys!

It's well known that the Wii U confused a lot of people. Many were confused after its reveal at E3 2011 and those were proper gamers. If I remember right someone on this forum gifted someone a Wii U but it sat unused in a closet cause he thought it was just a Wii accessory and was wondering why Nintendo waited so long to release a new home console ki after the Wii so thought they followed the Wii up with the Switch. It wouldn't have saved the Wii U but I bet that if it was called something like the Wii 2 it would've done at least as well as the Gamecube.

E3 2011 was about a year and a half before the Wii U launch and isn’t relevant. The people who were wondering what it was found out soon after.

I wouldn’t be so credulous to believe that anecdote that sounds so absurd when applying even the most basic reasoning; for example, you can ask these questions: Why would someone buy a gaming console for a friend that not only doesn’t want it, but has never heard of it? How could the person see that box, feel its weight, and not know what it was? Who gets an expensive gift and considers it an accessory to put in the closet? 

The point is, the mass confusion you’re claiming didn’t happen—at least not any time close to the console’s launch, let alone for the entire generation. Again, we’re human beings, not capuchin monkeys… but as has been pointed out, there are flat earthers :D



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

KLXVER said:
zorg1000 said:

Sure it’s opinions but we have the power of hindsight where we can look back and analyze various things that happened during previous generations to create informed opinions. Taking a single trend and ignoring the other variables isn’t a good way to come to a conclusion.

For 3DS & Wii U, I agree that their names were a factor as they did not do enough to indicate that they were brand new consoles, the average person could easily mistake 3DS for a DS revision with a 3D screen or think Wii U was a tablet accessory for Wii but there were clearly other very large issues on top of that so they would have had large declines regardless of name.

As for Super Nintendo & Gameboy Advance, I would really like to hear how those were poor names that contributed to their declines from NES/GB or why GameCube did so poorly despite having a completely unique name from previous consoles.

Well do you think the GC would have done better if it was called N64 2 or the Super N64?

Also I dont ignore other factors. All Im saying is the naming of a console seems to be A factor in why these systems do less than their predecessors. I believe if the Wii U was called the Nintendo Fusion for example(sorry I suck at naming consoles) I think it would have sold more. It wouldnt have the negative association that comes with the name Wii. From confusing or feeling unnecessary to casuals and making core gamers think of casual games and shovelware. Now I dont think it would have made the system a success, but I think more people would have given it a chance.

No, and that’s my point, it didn’t matter what you called GameCube, it was going to fail because of a bunch of other factors.

Nintendo spent the 90s getting mocked for being for kids and they combatted that by releasing a console/controller that looked like it was made by Fisher-Price.

They followed up Mario 64 with Mario cleaning trash on vacation, that just sounds like a spin-off rather than the next mainline title.

They followed up their dark/gritty Zelda titles, Ocarina of Time & Majora’s Mask, with the cartoon, cel-shaded Wind Waker.

They followed up their successful on-rails shooter, Star Fox 64, with Star Fox rescues dinosaurs.

They followed up their big multiplayer FPS hit GoldenEye with……….losing that market to Halo on Xbox. This also had a snowball effect of losing their sports and racing user base since the shooter/sports/racing audience has a lot of overlap.

They followed up their successful 3D platformer, Donkey Kong 64, with rhythm based games that use bongo controllers.

Pokemania had died down from its peak a few years earlier so the various Pokémon spin-offs had less of an impact.

PlayStation & Xbox were multimedia devices that let you listen to music and watch movies in addition to playing games and were laying the groundwork for successful online ecosystems, things Nintendo largely ignored.

The biggest hit of the generation, Grand Theft Auto, skipped the system entirely. A bunch of other 3rd party titles either skipped or came late.

When you combine all these different factors, the name itself becomes a very small or non-existent issue. A bad name can potentially hurt sales but your argument that names that are similar to predecessors hurts sales doesn’t hold much weight.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Super Switch may be perceived as just an upgrade to the existing hardware. Put the number 2 in the name and people will understand it's a new system.



KLXVER said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

This makes no sense. It's like saying people don't buy next versions of iPhone because they already have one. There is nothing more intuitive or easy to understand than Switch 2. 

Of course, many people use consoles for as long they can. Those are the late adopts. They purchase consoles when they are either finding their consoles outdated, or there are no more new games to play or because their consoles are starting to tear apart.

The point of going to another name it to showcase a different concept or idea. If Nintendo wants to sell another idea then I'm all for a new name. But if it's just a straight upgrade then it's a no brainer calling it Switch 2. 

Yeah, well thats my point. If its just another more powerful Switch with an added gimmick it wont do as well. Also Iphone has a way bigger core fanbase than Nintendo consoles has. The Wii U pretty much represents the Nintendo core gamers.

Then I guess I'm not a Nintendo core gamer.