LurkerJ said:
Just to be clear, the quash route offered by the judge is because he believes the new developments (including the CoD SOONY deal) means he could justify the process starting all over, which means a new investigation by the CMA all together. The quash wasn't meant to nullify the CMA report or deem it as "illegitimate", only to restart it because it could be viewed as "historical" in the context of the new developments, but both parties almost begged the judge not to do that lol.
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A quash is exactly to nullify the previous report
"A motion to quash is a request to a court or other tribunal to render a previous decision or proceeding null or invalid."
The judge did not 'offer' a quash, it's not up to the parties to decide/accept a quash. He was basically saying the context might warrant a summary judgement and quash (most likely) the phase 2 investigations.
Here is the proceedings document highlighting the quash procedure for the UK CAT :
where it quashes the whole or part of that decision, remit the matter back to the CMA with a direction to reconsider and make a new decision in accordance with the ruling of the Tribunal: Schedule 8, paragraph 3A of the 1998 Act.
What you suggest is a simple remittal not a quash, it is also highlighted in the same document section 2.17
Under paragraph 3(2) the power of the Tribunal on such an appeal includes the power to:
- confirm or set aside the decision in question;
- remit the matter to the CMA;
- impose or revoke or vary the amount of any penalty;
- give such directions, or take such other steps, as the CMA itself could have given or taken; and
- make any other decision which the CMA could itself have made.
LurkerJ said:
The CMA could've accepted to start over but preferred not to because the process is costly, they're after all, an underfunded and an understaffed public sector. MS is after a) quickest path forward b) certainty, so the quash wasn't in their interest either, they made that clear.
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Those are certainly valid reasons but not the only ones for the CMA, the judges having to identify mistakes done by the CMA that resulted in the quash was bad optics. This could result in binding new procedures/limitations for the CMA. There are already many cases where the CMA was given procedural restrictions while some others resulted simply in a rebuke of a findings/a procedure employed. But, that would be left entirely for the CAT to determine.
Not to mention in such a high-profile case it may decrease public trust in the regulatory body. We saw last week what can happen to such bodies when public trust is waiving.
LurkerJ said:
A quash wouldn't have severe consequences on the CMA like you're outlining here, I am not sure why you are jumping to that conclusion. The quash wouldn't have been granted because the CMA findings were inadequate, it would've been granted because they are new developments and a new transaction all together is on the table right now, interestingly, the new developments that could've led to a quash includes the SONY CoD deal. You're smart enough to know this, why do you always resort to speculation and hyperbole? You are clearly very involved in this which makes the context you're providing for the "quash" disingenuous.
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I'm not jumping to a conclusion and I not saying it absolutely would but it could have that effect, previous cases including nonmerger ones already acted to restrict the CMA in the procedures it can use and how they use those.
The quash wouldn't have been granted because the CMA findings were inadequate
There is only 2 basis to quash CMA findings, either an unlawful practice or highly unreasonable findings. Here it would most likely have been quashed for the unlawfulness of one of its practice. The judge strongly hinted at the quash not because of the new development with Sony but because CMA was engaging in negotiation with MS the judge even asked the CMA "Why didn’t you listen to these new proposals before?". That's because the CMA has a duty to use block only as a last resort which they obviously didn't reach here.
it would've been granted because they are new developments and a new transaction all together is on the table right now.
Again no, as far as the CAT is concerned there is no new evidence allowed plus CMA interim order prevents MS from doing a new deal with ABK. The "new deal" is only being employed loosely by the CMA to justify extending the currently pending final decision. MS did not reopen the contract with ABK so there's no new deal to date. Normally the CMA does not even have the right to do that, that's why the judge said the CAT won't rule on the lawfulness of how the CMA wants to go forward, but he needs to get an idea of what the legal basis is.
interestingly, the new developments that could've led to a quash include the SONY CoD deal.
He did not mention Sony prior or at the time he mentioned the quash but he did mention the new deal with Sony kind of blows apart the CMA’s whole argument later on. However, I think the judge was being informal with this mention because the CMA findings are a cloud SLC and Sony is not part of that meaning it should have been of no consequence here. But maybe the judge would then have found that the CMA overlooked the benefits in the console market and failed to properly weigh them to the cons of the Cloud Market IDK.
You're smart enough to know this, why do you always resort to speculation and hyperbole? You are clearly very involved in this which makes the context you're providing for the "quash" disingenuous.
And again you resort to using ad hominem attacking the one arguing instead of the arguments, you resort to this a lot. It prevents us to have an enjoyable conversation as your simply looking to discredit the ones you do not agree with. The context I provide for the quash is actually supported by the proceedings of the CATs, what have you as a source to prove it as trivial as you suggested?
LurkerJ said:
As for the consequences for the CMA, they've already happened. A right wing government that holds all the power right now has publicly come out and called them a woke working-from-home bunch who value diversity, the horror! Sunak has publicly admitted that he would steer the CMA, their independence has been clearly jeopardised in the stinkiest way possible, who knows what else has Hunt told the CMA when they met privately, I don't imagine it's "nicer" or "milder" that what has been said in public.
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That's not the kind of consequences I was referring to, but yes those suck. The thing is the CMA enjoys quite large power in the UK way more so than any other jurisdiction, but it comes with a warning not to abuse it. Here the CMA is responsible to have fueled their detractors' arguments against themselves IMO. There's no way that when you have findings that baffle the vast majority of industry experts and have been obtained while making regular phone calls with the highly politically motivated FTC would not make others ask questions.
LurkerJ said:
MS could've simply followed the process by appealing to the CAT and stopped there, but nope, they have used their connections with the government to pressure the CMA despite the fact that there is a legitimate path for appealing the CMA decision which remains an option, MS chose to play dirty, and it worked. Next time Amazon, Facebook or Apple has a problem with the CMA, they know what to do, and it's clearly not just going to CAT.
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None of the paths employed by MS here was illegitimate, MS as the right to voice its concerns to the government like anybody else. The only connection that speeds up the process here is simply the fact MS is important to the UK. Also, the CAT appeal path is extremely difficult as it requires finding the CMA either unlawful or so unreasonable literally no one else would conclude the same Which is the highest standard possible.
In the end, it looks like the CMA could have been quashed on with both as evidenced by the Judge's comments and the fact they're now pretty much alone (not alone in their findings but alone in rejecting remedies which if judged adequate could have breached the threshold to say the CMA acted too unreasonably).
Even then, the CMA would have been tasked with the same review anyway, and to date, they never changed their decision after being quashed. Meaning even if MS was to be 100% right and have been wronged by the CMA, the CMA would only have to reach the same conclusion over and over again to eventually kill the deal. This exact behavior is so prevalent with the CMA that many companies abandon mergers instead of appealing to the CAT even though they might have a legitimate and strong case. This is not an example of a body with proper checks and balances that separation of power requires.
Next time Amazon, Facebook or Apple has a problem with the CMA, they know what to do, and it's clearly not just going to CAT.
Next time the CMA may use a block truly as a last resort, as they should, providing a proper path for companies to address all concerns beforehand.
Last edited by EpicRandy - on 18 July 2023