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Forums - Website Topics - Discuss the state of the forums and find solutions

trunkswd said:
Renamed said:

It's best to leave it is now with minor tweaks. Site refreshes rarely invigorate long term activity and eventually lead to less overall engagement.

Dedicated forums are a dying medium. We all just need to come to terms with that. They are going the way of the old BBS, IRC, newgroups, etc... Do not waste money and massive efforts to revamp the whole site.

If any energy is increased, apply it toward sales tracking. Since VGC doesn't have corporate backing like IGN or GameSpot, it is the uniqueness of sales tracking that allows VGC to keep going long after thousands of others have died. Play to your strengths.

We will continue to do hardware estimates and report on shipment figures and player totals from official sources. It would be a long way off as it requires a lot of work to do, but we have some ideas on making it easier to find the latest shipment figures and player totals.

If retail polling is not an option (Circana, distributor or retail partnerships perhaps?) then any shipment or official data will need to be very accessible (as you noted) and usable.  More tools to make those numbers calculable in various scenarios.  These numbers are the heart of VGC.  More effort should be put into how users can work with the numbers than should be put into a site/forum overhaul.  

Basically do things that aren't or can't be done elsewhere. 
A place to discuss games and stuff - All over the place.
The Excel of video game sales data - Unique.



To the privileged, equality feels like oppression. 

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Renamed said:
trunkswd said:

We will continue to do hardware estimates and report on shipment figures and player totals from official sources. It would be a long way off as it requires a lot of work to do, but we have some ideas on making it easier to find the latest shipment figures and player totals.

If retail polling is not an option (Circana, distributor or retail partnerships perhaps?) then any shipment or official data will need to be very accessible (as you noted) and usable.  More tools to make those numbers calculable in various scenarios.  These numbers are the heart of VGC.  More effort should be put into how users can work with the numbers than should be put into a site/forum overhaul.  

Basically do things that aren't or can't be done elsewhere. 
A place to discuss games and stuff - All over the place.
The Excel of video game sales data - Unique.

Retail polling isn't really an option anymore as we have no way to get digital figures, which at this point is 80%+ of sales for PlayStation, Xbox and PC, and I think is 50%+ for even the Switch. That is one of the reasons we switched to reporting official figures from publishers and developers.

Right now, the only place you can see the latest software numbers is on the front page, otherwise you need to search in the GameDB for individual figures. The biggest issue with that is it only shows the 8 latest games updated and Capcom updates 100+ games every quarter. 

GameDB is currently ordered by number of units shipped/sold. We've added player totals to individual game pages (Example: https://www.vgchartz.com/game/232972/palworld/?region=All ), but want it added to the "Latest Software Updates" on the front page and the main GameDB page.

One idea that I am guessing would take a while for our coder to implement is to create a new chart that is similar to the old software charts (https://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/43464/Global/ ). It would be a monthly chart that has all the shipment and player totals in 2 separate sections for a given month. So, all games that have new figures for August 2024 (Ie. Black Myth Wukong at 10 million) would go in the August 2024 chart. And people could order them by biggest to smallest or by latest update at the top. It would mean March, June, September, and December would have the most figures as that is when Capcom, Nintendo, Take-Two, and others update their figures in their earnings reports. 



VGChartz Sales Analyst and Writer - William D'Angelo - I stream on Twitch and have my own YouTubeFollow me on Twitter, Bluesky, and Threads.

I post and adjust the VGChartz hardware estimates, with help from Machina.

Writer of the Sales Comparison | Monthly Hardware Breakdown Monthly Sales Analysis | Marketshare Features, as well as daily news on the Video Game Industry.

Any way we could add a delete button for forum posts? (Editing to say “dupe” works fine…but it just kinda creates clutter.)

As well adding receipts of when comments on articles are edited? (To avoid scenarios of an individual saying something, being responded to, and then the original post being edited. Not super common situation, but good feature worth considering.)

I also remain adamantly *against* the current voting system, in that some reform should be entertained (I feel the comment sections and forums are highly toxic here…though **far** better than Twitter. Users such as Hardstruck Platinum are essentially beaten senseless, “motivated” individuals will weaponize the voting system to suppress folks they either find annoying or who hold opinions which contradict their own (something as simple as “I think NSW2 will sell for $500” received heavy downvotes in an article, for instance), etc.), though I completely understand and respect the choice of those who run the site not to entertain this option.



firebush03 said:

Any way we could add a delete button for forum posts? (Editing to say “dupe” works fine…but it just kinda creates clutter.)

As well adding receipts of when comments on articles are edited? (To avoid scenarios of an individual saying something, being responded to, and then the original post being edited. Not super common situation, but good feature worth considering.)

I also remain adamantly *against* the current voting system, in that some reform should be entertained (I feel the comment sections and forums are highly toxic here…though **far** better than Twitter. Users such as Hardstruck Platinum are essentially beaten senseless, “motivated” individuals will weaponize the voting system to suppress folks they either find annoying or who hold opinions which contradict their own (something as simple as “I think NSW2 will sell for $500” received heavy downvotes in an article, for instance), etc.), though I completely understand and respect the choice of those who run the site not to entertain this option.

Regarding upvotes and downvotes, I'm not sure I see the problem. 

I get that a system like that can be abused. But I'll just say I think the downvotes are reasonable in this scenario. 



JWeinCom said:

Regarding upvotes and downvotes, I'm not sure I see the problem. 

I get that a system like that can be abused. But I'll just say I think the downvotes are reasonable in this scenario. 

prolly best to keep this discussion short since I literally just instigated a conversation over this last time I was here lol, but I do believe that the upvote/downvote system is responsible for Hardstruck’s provocative remarks, not the other way around.

And looking beyond him, the general concept of “downvoting/upvoting” system is problematic on its own. For real-life example, if I make a remark to professor during lecture, and the response includes a portion of the class looking at me with disapproval, I would feel very upset and worried to speak again. Analogously, if I leave an innocent comment on here just to come back w/ net [X] downvotes, I feel very unwelcomed and discouraged from commenting again, or I’ll have to “strategically” comment in a popular manner. (I’ve begun to notice most on here leave these kind of empty popular comments: Nothing of substance, but agreeable to the community.)

Again, it’s a flawed system, and is especially stressful for somebody such as myself who fights (or has fought) severe social anxiety. This is actly why I’m keeping comments to a minimum going forward. It just feels disgusting to comment with the intent of catering to an audience and or dealing with aggression. I believe reform can occur, we need not comments rid the voting system as a whole. I have ideas if anybody is actly open to hearing, tho I’m also fine just not commenting.

Last edited by firebush03 - on 22 September 2024

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firebush03 said:

"Again, it’s a flawed system, and is especially stressful for somebody such as myself who fights (or has fought) severe social anxiety"

yeah it's the exact same for me, been dealing with severe social anxiety for nearly 30 years, even take 6 pills a day for it which still doesn't work. It is shit to live with but when you make a profile on a public forum you kind of have to take the rough with the smooth. I do think though that the downvote part gets abused by trolls who simply love to hate on people. They're everywhere online unfortunately.



firebush03 said:
JWeinCom said:

Regarding upvotes and downvotes, I'm not sure I see the problem. 

I get that a system like that can be abused. But I'll just say I think the downvotes are reasonable in this scenario. 

prolly best to keep this discussion short since I literally just instigated a conversation over this last time I was here lol, but I do believe that the upvote/downvote system is responsible for Hardstruck’s provocative remarks, not the other way around.

And looking beyond him, the general concept of “downvoting/upvoting” system is problematic on its own. For real-life example, if I make a remark to professor during lecture, and the response includes a portion of the class looking at me with disapproval, I would feel very upset and worried to speak again. Analogously, if I leave an innocent comment on here just to come back w/ net [X] downvotes, I feel very unwelcomed and discouraged from commenting again, or I’ll have to “strategically” comment in a popular manner. (I’ve begun to notice most on here leave these kind of empty popular comments: Nothing of substance, but agreeable to the community.)

Again, it’s a flawed system, and is especially stressful for somebody such as myself who fights (or has fought) severe social anxiety. This is actly why I’m keeping comments to a minimum going forward. It just feels disgusting to comment with the intent of catering to an audience and or dealing with aggression. I believe reform can occur, we need not comments rid the voting system as a whole. I have ideas if anybody is actly open to hearing, tho I’m also fine just not commenting.

If we assume someone is a troll,  not saying anyone is,  I don't think anyone is going to stop them from trolling without a ban hammer. At least this gives the community a way to hide comments they feel are in bad faith or just stupid.

As for the rest, I don't disagree but I see that as a feature not a bug. It allows the community to discourage content they don't like. Yeah that can lead to some degree of group think but if there is a way to make a community that fairly evaluates every utterance, I don't think we're going to discover it with about 2 staff members on a shoe string budget. This may be as good as it gets.

While I do have some social anxiety issues and I sympathize, I think a thumbs down is a relatively gentle way to give feedback. And yeah that may upset some people but at the same time... that's the world. If people don't like what you say they might let you know.

This is something I questioned as a mod. Believe it or not we did (imo) want to help people figure out how to contribute productively and recognized some people may struggle with certain issues that make that tough. But ultimately I just don't think the mods/developers are really equipped for that. I think the comments upvote system is a fair way to outsource some of the power to the community itself. It's not a perfect system but I don't really see a better option.



firebush03 said:
JWeinCom said:

Regarding upvotes and downvotes, I'm not sure I see the problem. 

I get that a system like that can be abused. But I'll just say I think the downvotes are reasonable in this scenario. 

prolly best to keep this discussion short since I literally just instigated a conversation over this last time I was here lol, but I do believe that the upvote/downvote system is responsible for Hardstruck’s provocative remarks, not the other way around.

And looking beyond him, the general concept of “downvoting/upvoting” system is problematic on its own. For real-life example, if I make a remark to professor during lecture, and the response includes a portion of the class looking at me with disapproval, I would feel very upset and worried to speak again. Analogously, if I leave an innocent comment on here just to come back w/ net [X] downvotes, I feel very unwelcomed and discouraged from commenting again, or I’ll have to “strategically” comment in a popular manner. (I’ve begun to notice most on here leave these kind of empty popular comments: Nothing of substance, but agreeable to the community.)

Again, it’s a flawed system, and is especially stressful for somebody such as myself who fights (or has fought) severe social anxiety. This is actly why I’m keeping comments to a minimum going forward. It just feels disgusting to comment with the intent of catering to an audience and or dealing with aggression. I believe reform can occur, we need not comments rid the voting system as a whole. I have ideas if anybody is actly open to hearing, tho I’m also fine just not commenting.

This has nothing to do with the system being bad. It has to do with you.

You have to understand a forum is a web of opinions and some will agree with those opinions and some won't. That is the very core of the internet experience. Stop being scared of people not agreeing with you.



I'm quite happy despite the flaws. Glad I started posting here, place is very cosy and somehow addicting.



Xxain said:

This has nothing to do with the system being bad. It has to do with you.

You have to understand a forum is a web of opinions and some will agree with those opinions and some won't. That is the very core of the internet experience. Stop being scared of people not agreeing with you.

I know this is a concept which some ppl have a hard time grasping…but when a problem emerges, it’s almost never an entirely one-sided issue. It is possible that both the voting system needs some fixing just as I need some fixing. (In fact, seeing as 4ppl agreed with my comment, there does exist tangible evidence pointing toward the former statement holding true.)

What have I done to fix myself in this situation? Many things, and I actly feel a lot better now. Simply commenting less as well choosing Twitter/X (where I never comment) over VGC has pretty much resolved all my problems. And just b/c the effects of this issue are no longer present for me doesn’t mean the issue is gone.

What have the ppl in-charge done to fix this situation? Again, it seems four others agreed with my comment…so it’s not just me.

(p.s. My og comment wasn’t complaining abt ppl disagreeing, it was specifically ppl downvoting. There’s a difference between somebody disagreeing and somebody giving a hostile cue.)

Last edited by firebush03 - on 26 September 2024