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Forums - Gaming Discussion - (Business Perspective) Does MS really need Xbox Hardware?

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Machiavellian said:
Azzanation said:

If you are an Xbox fan, I understand you aren't happy if Xbox walks, but i am just saying the obvious. Xbox isn't needed for the console market to thrive. The market is not big enough to sustain all 3 companies, 1 will eventually walk out, and another will try to take its place only to fall in the same situation many before it has. 

You only know if you need something until its gone.  You have no clue how the market would change if MS does not have a competitive console.  One thing for sure is that you can believe all mega corporations will take full advantage of it so yes if you believe that Sony would sell at a loss their next system if MS is gone, you are deluding yourself.  Its not just the consumers that lose out its also the devs and other studios.  Fees go up, hell everything goes up because you just do not have to worry about competition.  No one knows what happens if MS leave and no one knows what will happen if MS goes limited multiplat which if you think about it they already operate in that fashion especially with ABK.  What determine success today is not always what you believe you know because you only live in the moment.

I dont disagree, i am not wanting MS to leave the market, i am stating thats their plan, weather its next gen or the gen after. 

I buy Xbox consoles, but i primarily game on PC, even though I'm called a Xbox fanboy on this site. If Xbox leave the industry, it wouldnt affect me personally, will it affect the console market, maybe, but how it looks already, it doesnt seem to be doing much anyway. Sony raised console prices first, they were the first console manufacturer to push $70 next gen games etc. Even with Xbox making hardware, its not going to stop Sony or Nintendo from doing what they want.

Thats just how i see it.



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Azzanation said:
Machiavellian said:

You only know if you need something until its gone.  You have no clue how the market would change if MS does not have a competitive console.  One thing for sure is that you can believe all mega corporations will take full advantage of it so yes if you believe that Sony would sell at a loss their next system if MS is gone, you are deluding yourself.  Its not just the consumers that lose out its also the devs and other studios.  Fees go up, hell everything goes up because you just do not have to worry about competition.  No one knows what happens if MS leave and no one knows what will happen if MS goes limited multiplat which if you think about it they already operate in that fashion especially with ABK.  What determine success today is not always what you believe you know because you only live in the moment.

I dont disagree, i am not wanting MS to leave the market, i am stating thats their plan, weather its next gen or the gen after. 

I buy Xbox consoles, but i primarily game on PC, even though I'm called a Xbox fanboy on this site. If Xbox leave the industry, it wouldnt affect me personally, will it affect the console market, maybe, but how it looks already, it doesnt seem to be doing much anyway. Sony raised console prices first, they were the first console manufacturer to push $70 next gen games etc. Even with Xbox making hardware, its not going to stop Sony or Nintendo from doing what they want.

Thats just how i see it.

I actually do not believe MS is looking to leave the console space, I just seem them not want to depend on it.  Which means, MS will be moving to be the biggest publishers on all platforms, PC, console and mobile.  MS need hardware in the console space because it goes hand in hand better with GP.  The amount of money MS make on license fees alone is a significant amount that they are not going to throw that away unless something they can do can fill that void.

Phil stated internally they are not leaving the console space.  There are multiple rumors of MS next console.  If anything I see MS pushing harder in hardware but not the traditional route.



Machiavellian said:
Azzanation said:

I dont disagree, i am not wanting MS to leave the market, i am stating thats their plan, weather its next gen or the gen after. 

I buy Xbox consoles, but i primarily game on PC, even though I'm called a Xbox fanboy on this site. If Xbox leave the industry, it wouldnt affect me personally, will it affect the console market, maybe, but how it looks already, it doesnt seem to be doing much anyway. Sony raised console prices first, they were the first console manufacturer to push $70 next gen games etc. Even with Xbox making hardware, its not going to stop Sony or Nintendo from doing what they want.

Thats just how i see it.

I actually do not believe MS is looking to leave the console space, I just seem them not want to depend on it.  Which means, MS will be moving to be the biggest publishers on all platforms, PC, console and mobile.  MS need hardware in the console space because it goes hand in hand better with GP.  The amount of money MS make on license fees alone is a significant amount that they are not going to throw that away unless something they can do can fill that void.

Phil stated internally they are not leaving the console space.  There are multiple rumors of MS next console.  If anything I see MS pushing harder in hardware but not the traditional route.

For your sake, i hope you are right. 3 out of 4 generations, MS made the best hardware interms of power and preformance and i would like to see them continue that trend. 

However, the costs of billions of RnD and to sell consoles at a loss, aswell as selling a plethora of more software across multiple platforms is an insane turnaround and will drawf the 30% royalties they would get having a console in the market.

There issue is getting GP on other platforms and not relying on Xbox hardware which we are seeing with GPs availability.

ABK didn't become the biggest selling publisher, also the worth of Sony and Nintendo themselves, but not relying on hardware.

Valve didnt become the biggest gaming platform by relying on hardware. 

I think you can see where i am coming from.



Azzanation said:
Machiavellian said:

I actually do not believe MS is looking to leave the console space, I just seem them not want to depend on it.  Which means, MS will be moving to be the biggest publishers on all platforms, PC, console and mobile.  MS need hardware in the console space because it goes hand in hand better with GP.  The amount of money MS make on license fees alone is a significant amount that they are not going to throw that away unless something they can do can fill that void.

Phil stated internally they are not leaving the console space.  There are multiple rumors of MS next console.  If anything I see MS pushing harder in hardware but not the traditional route.

For your sake, i hope you are right. 3 out of 4 generations, MS made the best hardware interms of power and preformance and i would like to see them continue that trend. 

However, the costs of billions of RnD and to sell consoles at a loss, aswell as selling a plethora of more software across multiple platforms is an insane turnaround and will drawf the 30% royalties they would get having a console in the market.

There issue is getting GP on other platforms and not relying on Xbox hardware which we are seeing with GPs availability.

ABK didn't become the biggest selling publisher, also the worth of Sony and Nintendo themselves, but not relying on hardware.

Valve didnt become the biggest gaming platform by relying on hardware. 

I think you can see where i am coming from.

You kind of get me wrong, its not for my sake if MS stays or leave the console space.  I have never dependent on MS having a console, this is just my opinion of the market and MS business moves.  I have all the consoles and a damn good gaming PC.  I never need any of these console OEM to stay in the market.  I am just a gamer who enjoys games and I purchase the systems that allows me to do so.

You keep looking at MS selling at a loss for each console but you need to look at the total operating cost, revenue and profits MS make in the console space.  MS can make money selling on PC and Xbox consoles because the 2 customer base are actually different.  MS cannot get the full benefit of their store if they do not sell a console meaning everything they sell on their store including 1st, 2nd and 3rd party games they get their cut.  

While MS could definitely get more sells by being fully multiplatform, as I stated, they have multiple ways of bringing in money but you do not keep consumers into your ecosystem better than having your own hardware.

Its interesting that you brought up Valve because did Valve not bring out their own hardware and talked about years of bringing out their own Steam Machine.  I just do not believe you truly understand how much MS make on having their hardware even at 3rd place.  MS is second in profits even thought they are 3rd in revenue.



Machiavellian said:

You kind of get me wrong, its not for my sake if MS stays or leave the console space.  I have never dependent on MS having a console, this is just my opinion of the market and MS business moves.  I have all the consoles and a damn good gaming PC.  I never need any of these console OEM to stay in the market.  I am just a gamer who enjoys games and I purchase the systems that allows me to do so.

1) You keep looking at MS selling at a loss for each console but you need to look at the total operating cost, revenue and profits MS make in the console space.  MS can make money selling on PC and Xbox consoles because the 2 customer base are actually different.  MS cannot get the full benefit of their store if they do not sell a console meaning everything they sell on their store including 1st, 2nd and 3rd party games they get their cut.  

While MS could definitely get more sells by being fully multiplatform, as I stated, they have multiple ways of bringing in money but you do not keep consumers into your ecosystem better than having your own hardware.

2) Its interesting that you brought up Valve because did Valve not bring out their own hardware and talked about years of bringing out their own Steam Machine.  I just do not believe you truly understand how much MS make on having their hardware even at 3rd place.  MS is second in profits even thought they are 3rd in revenue.

1) The loss on each console and the money they make back is decent however by having a console in the market, they restrict themselves on quadrupling their software sales. Remember the money is made in the software not the hardware. They can't sell enough consoles to please shareholders, so they start dipping some titles on other platforms to stay relevant. However, the more they dip, the more they cannibalize their own hardware. They can't do both, time will tell as future generations exist that you will start seeing less and less Xbox consoles because customers start waking up realizing they can access both libraries of games instead of just one if they brought the other platform, meanwhile to MS, the future is Digital.

2) Valve were already the market leader before the Steam Machine idea. My reasoning as to why Valve wanted to dip into the console market was due to Microsoft. This was at a time when Microsoft and Valve weren't on good terms. MS wanted to push Windows PC Store. Valve saw this as a possible threat since MS own Windows, and probably saw the idea of "If MS want to compete with our market, will compete in theirs." Steam machines failed, just like Stadia because there just is no room in the console space. We are already seeing the 3rd player trying to find other avenues to sell games and the push of Xbox on PCs as the example.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 16 February 2024

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It could be argued there's enough people who can't afford a gaming rig who would opt for an Xbox even with gamepass. This would reflect in sales if this were the case though.

I say after this new console they announced they're gonna walk away from gaming hardware.



HebrewGamer said:

It could be argued there's enough people who can't afford a gaming rig who would opt for an Xbox even with gamepass. This would reflect in sales if this were the case though.

I say after this new console they announced they're gonna walk away from gaming hardware.

I am willing to take that bet.  I believe you guys just do not look at the total revenue MS makes in the console space and you are way to focused on them having to be first when that has never been the case.  Hell MS isn't first in a lot of hardware they sell but they all produce a good chunk of money.  Until you can actually show how they make up the profit they make from having their own console this is more wishful thinking than anything else.  Even so, since MS is still making new hardware its going to be longer than another decade before we find out what they will do next.  In that time who really knows what will happen but this discussion isn't going to be resolved for a very long time.

My thing is that people have been saying this for how long.  Every time someone says MS is leaving the console space each and every time they have double downed.  Even recently when everyone was going nuts about a few games going multiplatform all the doom and gloom but then again, MS just double down.  There is a reason for this and I stated it.  So yeah, after another decade of hardware because that is exactly what we will be getting, the conversation may be the same but I believe that MS will continue to double down as long as they are making the revenue and profit from the system as they do.  

Last edited by Machiavellian - on 19 February 2024

MS doesn't need Xbox period. Azure is where the money is at.