“If the Amiibo didn’t exist, the extra content wouldn’t exist”

Uh, fucking what LOL

What a naive way of looking at things. That’s like saying if preorders or DLC didn’t exist, then all these skins and and extra content you get just wouldn’t exist.

Pretty sure I’ve seen you bitch (rightfully) on these forums about PS exclusive content in games, Azz. But apparently you shouldn’t feel any way about it because without PlayStation, the content just wouldn’t exist, right?

You assume the content created for the Amiibos would exist. Same logic applies.

Nintendo have held their prices from the beginning, competition or not, it does not change anything. Infact due to competition, Nintendo are following Sony and Xbox by raising their big first party titles now. Thanks Competition. 

They created a collectors item for enthusiasts. You want the game, get it at launch, otherwise your loss, not mine. I enjoy those tactics, makes those who buy them feel valuable.

Nintendo don't screw me because I buy their products on release, so I am paying the full price anyway. So again, no they are not screwing me other. They are screwing those who want to buy Nintendo stuff on the cheap. 

You value your wallet yet here you are supporting PS for raising their console and software prices in previous threads... get out Don. Stop feeding your BS to me. No i don't want to hear your excuses as to why Sony are justified raising the prices on their customers either. 

Preorder DLC isn't the same as making collector figures and placing incentive DLC in them. We are talking some of the smallest DLC additions in Amiibos. 

I brought a Halo 5 Master Chief Figurine which has DLC codes in it. I also brought a SoTs controller and Monopoly broad which include DLC codes. GTFO with this crap. They all do it, it's not screwing the customer over, you know what is screwing customers? Paid online. If you accept that yet hate a gun skin being bundled with a cheap toy than you might need to open your eyes more on the industry.

Nintendo was founded as a toy company and now they are being criticized for making toys. This industry is so far gone its not even funny anymore.

Assuming content would be created for games even if Amiibos didn't exist is pretty easy assumption as the Amiibos were based on characters that already existed before them. But even assuming they wouldn't create the content doesn't change the fact that it was a customer exploitation to need to buy Amiibo to buy the DLC.

Nintendo prices hike being fault of competition is laughable (you can at most put the blame on the others to making it easier for Nintendo to avoid getting flack for it, they invest a lot less money to make the game, sell more units and for launch price for a longer time so there really isn't an excuse on it by comparing to competitors). And Nintendo had games being more expensive than 70USD long before Sony was a competitor for them (and that is before inflation correction). If you don't believe a quick search will help you out, but being a generous person I'll give you one link https://www.giantbomb.com/forums/general-discussion-30/how-much-did-games-cost-back-in-the-day-487807/ Super Mario 64 was 70USD 

Also found a page from a retail shop at the time

Nintendo wasn't shy on charging more than Sony for the games.

I get that you enjoy when it's Nintendo doing this screwing over of customers ok.

You always spill the same gravel on supporting PS raising price which I never did. What I did, will do is explaining the reasoning (which is mind you not the same thing as odd as it may seem to you).

“It’s just small DLC” and “but they all do it!!” aren’t adequate defenses for locking content behind purchases of crap outside of the game. And it doesn’t have to be toys, publishers have made deals to put that crap in other shit too. It’s all crappy, but the content in Amiibos is worse, more prevalent, and locked behind something Nintendo controls via artificial supply and demand, etc. If Diablo IV has content locked behind buying a bag of shitty pizza rolls, I don’t have to support it, but at least I can go to literally any grocery store and buy it. Amiibos are not the same thing.

Pay online, I mean everyone does it right? Does that defense also apply here? I’m guessing not.

Correct. Which is why I never asserted anything like you have.

Nintendo never competed against the Dreamcast. That is a fact.

The Nintendo 64 sales had waned when the Dreamcast launched. - And Nintendo never released the Gamecube when the Dreamcast was on the market.

Ergo. Nintendo never competed with the Dreamcast when Sega folded.

Ergo. By your logic, the industry is only able to support one company.

They already have changed the industry.

Either way, you are engaging in a logical fallacy and shifting the goal post.
You asked for "one" example of where competition has benefited Steam. - Now that's not good enough?

Come on Azzanation, you need to do better than that.

Let's not falsely assume, let's actually base things on evidence.

You still aren't reading my posts. How does Microsoft being a trillion dollar company have anything to do with porting software to server hardware?

That is a policy that can change later on as it's not officially endorsed.

When will that happen exactly? We have been promised new games for years now.

They make toys and support the toys by adding content, weather it was taking out from the games or created for the Amiibos separatly. It's completely optionally and this is a sad excuse of saying a company is ripping people off because they make toys linked to their games. Sony and Xbox also do it, just not with Amiibos. Have you never brought a product with a DLC code attached to it? Amiibos are for people who love to collect toys and figures. If you think that's ripping me off than you are kidding yourself. They don't phase me one bit. Did the Zelda Amiibo ruin Zelda Tears of the Kingdom? Hmm oddly no one cares. 

Also Cartridges cost more than CDs hence the N64 software price. Also Nintendo has never tried to release a console that required 2 jobs to buy.

This is such a stupid excuse on calling out a company because a gaming company makes toys that link to their games. Really think about what you are saying.

I will disagree with you on this Amiibo hate. I like them and I know many who like them as well. To each their own. Don't like them, don't buy them. Its completely optional content.

You are worried about an optional $15 toy being anti consumer because it offers a in game skin, yet are forced to pay a fee to play half the game you already paid for online access. You have your priorities completely wrong. 

Disagree to agree with your statement.

1) Okay.

2) Nintendo had Sega as a major competitor with the Mega Drive and Genesis, it was healthy competition when it was two major platforms. Sony entered, Sega instantly struggled, there was no room for Sega to compete. Look at the history of the console market. There has always been 2 major platforms and the 3rd platform changes from company to company. You have seen it with your own eyes.

3) EGS hasn't changed the market, not the way you are thinking they did. Let me ask you, what did EGS change exactly for the better? EGS tried to lower Steams cut on games and failed. Steam still takes 30% (With the exception of high end sales). Why does Steam need to take a less cut on games? For what purpose does this benefit the consumers? Your example of Discord was a poor one. In what world is Discord a Steam competitor? 

4) So you are saying Sony don't want Bethesda's big games? I would say my point is more in favor than yours.

5) MS is already making deals with other Streaming services to play Xbox games, so where is this hard porting process you continue to bring up? From what we are seeing, is they have signed multiple 10+ year deals with other services to play Xbox games, so where's the porting issue? I dont understand this point? If Nvidia can Stream Xbox games, so can PS and Nintendo.

6) Assumption. You cannot run a business on assumptions.

7) Maybe when they announce and release some new games maybe...

1) I am not sure you have this one correct.  When Sega removed themselves from the market on hardware there was no Nintendo system at that time

2) This is where I do not understand your stance when it comes to business decisions.  EGS is not trying to lower Steams cut on games.  EGS is trying to entice developers to put their games on their storefront because Epic allows the developers 88% return selling on their storefront and only take a 12% cut.  This is in contrast to Valve taking 30% cut.  This is a competitive tactic to gain developers and increase games on EGS storefront.  Because of this Tactic, Valve must always be aware that they could lose developers support and if so will have to respond by lowering their cut.  Yes, Steam still takes 30% but what you do not understand is that Epic provides another storefront for any developer who does not want to pay that price.  That is what we call competition.  These are very basic stuff and the fact you are defending Valve still charging 30% seems illogical.  If you are a developer that is exactly what you want, more storefronts fighting for your game giving you the best chance to maximize your profits.

3) I would say that Sony absolutely do not care about Bethesda games if they could remove MS from the market.  Also if MS give up their hardware, they must come to Sony on Sony terms.  That puts MS at an extremely disadvantage where they would need to accept basically whatever Sony offer.  Now you tell us all, exactly why would MS put themselves at the mercy of Sony for what gain.  If you thought the EU hit MS with concessions, what do you believe Sony would ask for.  You would have investors asking you to resign in a heartbeat.

4) Actually, MS is making deals to put ABK games on streaming platforms.  ABK make PC games or we should say ABK games are on consoles and PC so no porting.  Those streaming platforms are PC platforms and MS already make their games on PC and console.  What MS does not do is make their games on PS or Nintendo.  If GP is on PS or Nintendo system, they would either be streaming only which at this time would be a big miss or MS would need to port those games to PS and Nintendo because GP is a download service.  Azz, you seem to be missing very basic stuff which is killing your arguments.

5) Totally correct, you cannot run a business on assumptions but every argument you have provided are based on assumption.  You assume Sony wants MS games, You assume Sony or Nintendo will put GP on their platform.  You assume MS want out of the hardware business. You assume that GP can replace MS current revenue stream.  You assume XCloud is a replacement for Hardware.  I mean your whole argument is based on a lot of assumptions.  None of your arguments have anything in them where MS can say, Yes this will happen.  It's all a gamble.

Annoucing new games and releasing new games is 2 different things.  We already had a number of announcements.  While I believe MS will start to get games out the door, nothing is guaranteed to be successful.  MS is a long way from having enough successful games to combat Sony or Nintendo.  I would say they are a generation behind, not only in games but in customer mindshare.

Yes. Nintendo had Sega as a major competitor with the Mega drive and Genesis.

Sega started to struggle with the Saturn because:

1) They didn't work with developers, they didn't even know when the console was releasing, it ended up releasing earlier than developers expected.

2) Sega announced the console as available in 1995. - But it was only limited quantities, consumers missed out due to scarcity.

3) Poor launch games library. - I.E. No Sonic.

4) $100 more expensive console than Playstation. (We know how that worked for the Xbox One!)

5) Difficult to program for. - Dual CPU's leveraging the same bus left much to be desired.

Sega's own choices were responsible for the Saturns failure.

Even Nintendo found much less success in the market with the Nintendo 64, also due to some of it's own poor choices. (Carts).

But Generation 6 was a reset.

Generation 6 was clearly Sony's generation, the PS2 sold 155~ million which beats the combined 24 million (Xbox), 22 million (Gamecube) and 9.1 million  (Dreamcast) sales by almost 3x.

It wasn't a "to much" competition issue in generation 6 that caused Microsoft, Nintendo AND Sega to struggle that generation, Sony was just dominant.

However, Sega faltered before Nintendo and Microsoft released their 6th gen consoles, so their competition was absolutely irrelevant... In-fact Sega had strong Dreamcast sales until the PS2 happened, then they plummeted.

************

The 7th generation consoles PROVED that Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo. Aka. 3 competitors can thrive in the console market at the same time with the Wii (101~ million), PS3 (87~ million), Xbox (84~ million) all being profitable and highly successful platforms in their own right.

1) I already outlined how the Epic Game Store has influenced and changed Steam.
I am not going to constantly repeat myself, re-read my prior post as those points are all still relevant.

2) Steam doesn't take 30%. They have different cuts depending on sales.

3) Steam having less cut for games, means more money for developers, which means less sales required for developers to turn a profit and keep making games. - This is basic business sense. - More games benefits the consumers.

4) Discord distributes/sells games and apps. - Discord interfaces with many games as a forum/chat client.

I never made that claim.

Microsoft's "deals" are partly to pass a purchase of Activision Blizzard.

I never asserted porting is hard.
I said porting is required.

Your entire argument is based on baseless assumptions.

They have been doing that for years...

It's not just a skin, it's often been stuff that has an impact on gameplay for example Samus Returns has a harder difficulty mode but it's locked behind an amiibo which for a lot of people is a way they'd like to replay the game so important content. And for people who decide to play a game like that years after it comes out getting the amiibo required for stuff like might not be cheap which results in piracy being the best way to experience games like that which is always a bad sign.