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Zkuq on 14 July 2024
Jimbo1337 said:
Ryuu96 said:

Yeah...Except I already mentioned that in other posts.

He donated $15 to the PTP on Jan 20th, 2021. He was 17 years old at that time, then 8 months later he registered as a Republican on Sep 2021. Your theory is that he registered as a Republican to vote against Trump 3 years in advance, only to decide to throw it all away and get himself killed when there's 3 months left to vote? Not to mention, the shirt he was wearing is for a gun focused, right-leaning YouTube Channel.

Why I say it leans towards him not having a political motive is because he ticks all the boxes of your average American mass shooter, a loner who was heavily bullied in high school. His classmates also say he never spoke politics or criticised Trump, Discord has access to his account where they say he didn't speak politics or express hatred towards Trump, his socials offer nothing, there is no manifesto, yet. His political allegiance as a very young guy was shifting, yes, from the donation to Dems to registering as a Republican, the more likely explanation for that is the dude was 17 years old, young people are susceptible to changing their views quite easily, especially isolated ones like he is described as.

If you're angry at the world, want to go out in a blaze of glory and immortalise your name, what is a better way than killing a former President? I find this more plausible than "the dude registered as a Republican 3 years in advance in a masterful long-term plan to vote against Trump only to say fuck it, time to kill Trump with 3 months left on my masterful plan"

And Trump was registered Democrat once, people change.

I could easily say "He's a registered Republican, clearly it was a Republican trying to kill Trump, probably hates what Trump has done to the Republican Party or maybe he's a Nick Fuentes fanboy some of which have issues with Trump, etc." but I don't and instead find the "typical mass shooter" scenario to be the most plausible with the facts we have right now. You think he's a radical progressive Democrat because he donated $15 to them in 2021. Maybe I'm wrong but with the evidence we have right now, I'd argue that your scenario is far more implausible.

I get that you aren't an American and likely don't understand the entire voting system, but there are other elections besides the presidential election every four years. We have elections ever 2 years that completely change the representatives in the House and a portion of the senators (since they have a 6 year term limit). So you can't just zero in on the presidential election, which happens every 4 years, as the sole reason for someone to shift their voter registration. There is strong evidence that he wanted to vote against republicans in 2022 and 2024 based on his actions (donating his money to the progressive campaign).

The entire rest of your post is just making up a scenario to fit the expected outcome you desire. The fact is that this shooter donated money on January 20, 2021 to the Progressive Turnout Project. This is 14 days after January 6th, 2021. 

Here is the Progressive Turnout Project's Facebook post today: "It's simple people: Donald Trump is a threat to our democracy and another four years of him would be detrimental to our country."

Source: https://www.facebook.com/turnoutpac/

The shooter therefore thought that Trump is a threat to American Democracy. Since he tried to kill Trump, the timing of his donation, and who he donate his money to, he is a radical progressive democrat by definition. That's the evidence we have. No made up scenario like you did. Just the facts.

For what it's worth, this is the conclusion I'm closer to coming to by reading your posts instead of Ryuu's. If I had to guess (based on the facts), I'd say he was a democrat some years ago, then changed his mind later (he was a young person, and young people are more likely to still be looking for themselves and thus also change opinions), and ended up trying to assassinate Trump for what is currently an unknown reason: Ryuu's guess seems perfectly reasonable, or perhaps he was unhappy with Trump for some reason (maybe he thought Trump was a threat, maybe he though he was bringing down the Republican party/changing it to something it hasn't traditionally been, or maybe he thought Trump wasn't radical enough). Either way, concluding that he was a democrat seems like a hasty conclusion to me. It's not wrong to acknowledge that we simply don't know everything and might never do either - no need for hasty conclusions.



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Ryuu96 on 14 July 2024

Shit when I was like 19? During Brexit, I went from supporting Brexit to being against it multiple times, it was easy for me to change my mind, Lol. So much shit was being thrown around. Now I'm completely against it but that's irrelevant. Just saying how quickly peoples minds can change on a certain subject at that age, especially if they're isolated as this guy is claimed to be.

If I wanted to hurt Republicans, I would try to say he's a Republican angry at Trump...The scenario I'm guessing is best for everyone, maybe isn't the best case scenario for Republicans but it isn't the worst case either (which would be him being a Republican). America is a fucked up place...You've got people shooting people on the regular for no particular strong political reason.



Ryuu96 on 14 July 2024
Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 14 July 2024

Leynos on 14 July 2024
Ryuu96 said:

...High school rifle club. I live in the US and never even heard of this. WTF.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

sundin13 on 14 July 2024
Jimbo1337 said:

The shooter therefore thought that Trump is a threat to American Democracy. Since he tried to kill Trump, the timing of his donation, and who he donate his money to, he is a radical progressive democrat by definition. That's the evidence we have. No made up scenario like you did. Just the facts.

Radical progressives aren't the only ones who dislike trump. There's an issue with your logic there. Based on the evidence, I would personally guess anti-government libertarian? I honestly don't know though (and I'm not sure how much it actually matters). 



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Jimbo1337 on 14 July 2024
Ryuu96 said:

First you said he registered as a Republican to vote against Trump, now he registered as a Republican to vote against Republican Senators, House Members, etc. Okay Dokey. Lol. I didn't zero in on the Presidential election, it was you, now you're adding more because I pointed out he registered as a Republican in 2021 so it was unlikely to be for President.

How is there *strong* evidence that he wanted to vote against Republicans in 22/24 based on him donating $15 to a progressive campaign in 2021 and then later registering as a Republican...That ain't strong evidence. You accuse me of making up scenarios to fit the outcome I desire, that is exactly what you are doing here, over a $15 donation...

The outcome I would desire is not even the outcome I've described, if I hate Trump (which I do) and hate the Republican Party (which I do) then the outcome I would say is that he is a Republican who has became jaded against Donald Trump for various reasons (shocking to you, those Republicans do exist, though are rare).

Instead I say the outcome is likely to be yet another mass shooter in America, in a country with a severely lacking mental health support, with an incredibly easy access to deadly weapons, a man who was bullied his entire life, isolated and alone, tried to commit a horrific act and hit back at the world, where better to do that than a mass gathering like Trump's against a former President.

How many mass shooters has America had now? How many young white males let down by the system have gone on to commit disgusting acts now?

The facts are he donated to Progressives in 2021 and Registered as a Republican after, that his shirt was for a pro-gun/right leaning YouTube channel, that he was a loner who was bullied in High School, that he didn't express any political stance to his friends or any criticism of Trump, nor did he do so on Discord. Those are the facts and everything else is theory and I find my theory holds more water than yours with the facts that we have.

Your "He registered as a Republican to vote against Democrats" is NOT fact. I'm not actually desperately trying to pin my theory to blame Republicans as you're desperately trying to invent a theory to blame Democrats. I'm simply saying he is likely yet another fucked up dude who wanted to kill people as America has so many of them, there's absolutely no hard evidence so far that he was politically motivated on either side.

SO FAR.

Please provide your vgchartz post where you explicitly mentioned that this shooter donated to the Progressive Turnout Project. I searched through your previous posts and couldn't find it. I'm asking for this because I want the facts to be laid out for all to see. 

Voting against Republican Senators and Republican House of Representatives is a vote against Trump and the Trump MAGA movement. It would be intellectually dishonest to suggest that the Republicans running today don't support this MAGA movement. 

It is strong evidence because he donated to PTP FOURTEEN DAYS after January 6th. I would also like to point out that in your entire post, you failed to mention this fact. Yet again you are intentionally leaving out facts in order to create your own narrative. You then go on to say that I am basing my narrative over a $15 dollar donation. I would like to point out the fact that Bernie Sander's average donation was $27. Are you suggesting that those donations to Bernie Sanders are not indicators of his supporters?

Your entire scenario is based on this being a mass shooting. 

"Mass shooting, as defined by the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), an event in which one or more individuals are “actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area. Implicit in this definition is the shooter’s use of a firearm.” The FBI has not set a minimum number of casualties to qualify an event as a mass shooting, but U.S. statute (the Investigative Assistance for Violent Crimes Act of 2012) defines a “mass killing” as “3 or more killings in a single incident.” Source: https://www.britannica.com/topic/mass-shooting

The entire news media is labeling this event as an assassination on a former president. That's a fact. Assassination is not the same as a mass shooting. This was targeted towards one individual. All shots that were fired had the intent of killing former President Trump. Rounds that killed or injured innocent bystanders was not his intended target based on the facts. 

Words matter. Stop trying to tie this to previous mass shooting events when the definition doesn't fit the scenario. Those previous mass shooting events didn't have a political motive. I would say that trying to assassinate a former president who is a "danger to democracy" is politically motivated.

Other users do not agree with you. The more I point out your fallacies the more it is apparent that your made up scenario falls apart. 

Last edited by Jimbo1337 - on 14 July 2024

Jumpin on 14 July 2024

iron_megalith said:
Zkuq said:
iron_megalith said:

I guess it was just right to let things be and let it spiral out of control to have all your points proven. If only we still had those old posts from the old thread.

People said illegal immigration was not an issue
People said Biden had no cognitive problems
People said Trump is a fascist that would use everything in his power to shut down or jail the opposition
People said right wing groups are the true danger and that the left has no fringe elements

Boy. Look where we are right now. Just a lucky turn of the head saved this country from going completely ballistic. Meanwhile the fringe people on the left are pissed at the shooter for fumbling it.

It only took us 8 years to realize that people have been exacting political violence on Trump/Trump supporters. It first started with punching people who had MAGA hats. Now it's shooting Trump himself.

What does the assassination attempt have to do with immigration or Biden's cognitive capabilities? Absolutely nothing. You just decided to lump them together because you wanted to make a juicy point aided by the circumstances, or at least that's exactly what your post seems like to me.

If you did not understand the things I said there, then I just wish you all the luck. I have long graduated from arguing in this forum.

Yet, in your post you made several arguments. The only thing you've "graduated" from is defending your own arguments.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Zkuq on 14 July 2024
Jimbo1337 said:

Other users do not agree with you. The more I point out your fallacies the more it is apparent that your made up scenario falls apart. 

Excuse me? I'm not going to intervene in your discussion otherwise, but this is clearly and verifiably false, judging by the few signs there are. In this thread and the assassination thread, in the posts between you and Ryuu, yours have no likes, whereas Ryuu's have a notable amount (on this site's scale), and the only other response I could very quickly find to your messages is pointing out a logical fallacy in your reasoning (see sundin's message in this thread). Can you provide support for your claim of agreement from other users that I might have missed?

Also, I haven't read the discussion between you and Ryuu very carefully, so pardon me if I missed something, but the only logical fallacy I've seen is from you (again, see sundin's post).



the-pi-guy on 14 July 2024
Jimbo1337 said:

You cited incomplete information. He is registered as a Republican but donated $15 to the Progressive Turnout Project according to the New York Times:

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/14/us/politics/trump-gunman-thomas-crooks.html

"The gunman did not have a criminal history reflected in Pennsylvania’s public court records, and officials said they had not identified a motive. A voter-registration record showed Mr. Crooks’s Republican registration, though federal campaign-finance records show he donated $15 to the Progressive Turnout Project, a liberal voter turnout group, through the Democratic donation platform ActBlue in January 2021."

Based on the presented evidence, he was a radical progressive Democrat signed up as a Republican to vote against Donald Trump during the 2024 primary. Please try to be more accurate and not intentionally leave out information in the future. 

I guess trying to assassinate the former president means you have "no political agenda" these days. 

Or he changed politics. 

It's extremely common for people of that age to have more drastic changes in politics. I had the opposite change. I was much more conservative when I was 17. 

There is very little evidence to suggest that he recently was a Democrat or progressive. 

If a 3.5 year old donation from someone who would have been 17 is your leading piece of evidence, you need more information. 

I personally think the more recent information says far more (registered Republican and wearing a pro gun shirt). But overall, more information is needed. 

Maybe you are correct that he is a Democrat who registered Republican to vote against Trump in the primaries. But that is speculation, and acting like it's more than that is just dishonest. 

Or maybe he's just a disturbed individual with no actual consistent politics. 

Sometimes people do these things for attention and not politics. There was one guy who went after Democrat Carter and Republican Reagan because he thought it'd get him attention. 

There's probably 4 different stories that fit the 3 different pieces of evidence. 

Ryuu96 said:

Sarah D'Angelo, a former classmate of Trump shooting suspect Thomas Matthew Crooks at Bethel Park High in Pennsylvania, said Crooks had not broadcast any strong political views in school.

"He never outwardly spoke about his political views or how much he hated Trump or anything," she said in an interview Sunday morning. D'Angelo, who graduated from the same high school as Crooks in 2022 said he had "a few friends," but "didn't have a whole friend group." She recalled him playing games on his laptop during homeroom before the school day began.

The shooter from former President Donald Trump's rally on Saturday had explosive material inside his car and residence, according to multiple law enforcement sources.

CNN Politics

This is starting to sound like your typical American mass shooter...Donated to Democrats then registered as Republican, wears the shirt of a pro-gun/right-leaning YouTube channel, no obvious political leanings in High School...Has explosives and shot more than one person...Just looks like he wanted to do a mass shooting and the Trump rally was the "perfect" target for his mind.

Fits the profile of most mass shooters in America.

Maybe they'll find a motive, if it's the case that he's just your typical nutjob mass shooter, I suspect America will once again ignore the issue.



the-pi-guy on 14 July 2024

Seems to be misinformation.

Last edited by the-pi-guy - on 14 July 2024