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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Head of Capcom R&D slams Sony's Sixaxis Controller

Tion-storm said:
"I mean rumble is last gen and all. XD" It's so last gen they are bringing it back. Nothing quite like retro gaming on a new system :) Probably going to be a good excuse for them to up the price of the controller :( The six-axis shock? Being able to use the d-pad and analogue stick without having to change prongs.... PS1 :P as a side note though.... "Is there anything on the PS1 controller that had not been used by Nintendo for 6+ years" Yeah the analogue and rumble... I believe the summary of this topic is. Nintendo steal it's innovation. Sony steal it's copying. No one cares when Microsoft or Sega do it :) Just found this on another thread http://www.game-machines.com/consoles/segapico.php Touch screen gaming eh :P

The picture he linked is the original PS1 controller: it had neither analog sticks nor rumble. Those were added after Nintendo made the rumble pack and added the analog stick to their N64 controller. 



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

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Bodhesatva said:
Silver_Z said:
souixan said:

Never said you didn't play games before the DS with a touch screen, what I did say is no -game- system had this feature untill the DS and with that I'm correct. I know of pleanty devices with touch screens pre DS for MANY a year from palm pilots to an endless string of other items. I don't know of any company that thought to use it exvlusivly for games however. Also Starfox was indeed the game it was invented for but other games did use it, the Ocarina of Time to a lesser extent. It was used it just wasn't a standard so developers ignored it. Again Nintendo had to prove it was a viable option, regardless of if Sony had it standard or not first Nintendo initially came out with it. It's not fanboy you just took my words the wrong way.

To finish up, it would be an innovation to use it in most of your games, if the games were first party, to that effect at best it wasn't Sony's idea they just encouraged it along. In addition the Starf fox game with the rumble pack so to that effect if you want to argue star fox the only game that used it, then it was pretty much standard if you ask me. It was a good idea to use it standard but that's just cutting the fat off the production, not so much thinking up a new idea.


Ok. Sorry if I mis-interpreted your post. I just feel that every console maker has their own fair share of innovations. All these accusations of technology copying by fanbois is kinda way out of line.

Look at the similarity of the 2 controllers.... Sony PS1 came first, then the N64. Did Nintendo copied the palm grips of Sony PS, and added a tail in the middle? I have owned most of these consoles, I am glad that they use the idea of one another, and improve it. As a consumer, I get the best out of my money. Btw, Sony didn't invent the hand grips, the first time i saw hand grips were from some 3rd party company that made it an attachment for the SNES controllers. And I think PS was the first to incorporate it into their controllers.


 Uh, the PS1 controller shown there has the following features:

Buttons (invented by Atari?)

Direction Pad (invented by Nintendo)

Shoulder buttons (invented by Nintendo)

They later added a rumble feature (invented by Nintendo) and Analog sticks (invented by Vectrix, reintroduced by Nintendo 15 years later) to the PS1 controller.

Is there anything on the PS1 controller that had not been used by Nintendo for 6+ years? The answer is no.  


HAhahahahahahaaaa.................. The answer is yes.... And it can be found in that picture. But sometimes, people are just to blinded by their faith. lol!!



Silver_Z said:
Bodhesatva said:
Silver_Z said:
souixan said:

Never said you didn't play games before the DS with a touch screen, what I did say is no -game- system had this feature untill the DS and with that I'm correct. I know of pleanty devices with touch screens pre DS for MANY a year from palm pilots to an endless string of other items. I don't know of any company that thought to use it exvlusivly for games however. Also Starfox was indeed the game it was invented for but other games did use it, the Ocarina of Time to a lesser extent. It was used it just wasn't a standard so developers ignored it. Again Nintendo had to prove it was a viable option, regardless of if Sony had it standard or not first Nintendo initially came out with it. It's not fanboy you just took my words the wrong way.

To finish up, it would be an innovation to use it in most of your games, if the games were first party, to that effect at best it wasn't Sony's idea they just encouraged it along. In addition the Starf fox game with the rumble pack so to that effect if you want to argue star fox the only game that used it, then it was pretty much standard if you ask me. It was a good idea to use it standard but that's just cutting the fat off the production, not so much thinking up a new idea.


Ok. Sorry if I mis-interpreted your post. I just feel that every console maker has their own fair share of innovations. All these accusations of technology copying by fanbois is kinda way out of line.

Look at the similarity of the 2 controllers.... Sony PS1 came first, then the N64. Did Nintendo copied the palm grips of Sony PS, and added a tail in the middle? I have owned most of these consoles, I am glad that they use the idea of one another, and improve it. As a consumer, I get the best out of my money. Btw, Sony didn't invent the hand grips, the first time i saw hand grips were from some 3rd party company that made it an attachment for the SNES controllers. And I think PS was the first to incorporate it into their controllers.


Uh, the PS1 controller shown there has the following features:

Buttons (invented by Atari?)

Direction Pad (invented by Nintendo)

Shoulder buttons (invented by Nintendo)

They later added a rumble feature (invented by Nintendo) and Analog sticks (invented by Vectrix, reintroduced by Nintendo 15 years later) to the PS1 controller.

Is there anything on the PS1 controller that had not been used by Nintendo for 6+ years? The answer is no.


HAhahahahahahaaaa.................. The answer is yes.... And it can be found in that picture. But sometimes, people are just to blinded by their faith. lol!!


Okay, what is it? Clearly I'm blind. Honestly, I'm curious -- rather than simply mocking me, tell me what I'm missing. 



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

The handle grips. It first appeared on the PS1, next appearance was on the Nintendo Virtualboy and to N64. By the way...... the other thing is CD Rom was found on PS1 way before nintendo got into optical media. N64 was still on catridges.

Btw, I love my PS1-3, and I also love all my nintendos, from NES to Wii(I had every single 1 of em). I am not defending Sony against Nintendo. My purpose of contribution is to enlighten blinded fanbois. And I have no doubts that Nintendo has always been the top gaming innovator, just that they are not the only ones who innovate.



Silver_Z said:

The handle grips. It first appeared on the PS1, next appearance was on the Nintendo Virtualboy and to N64. By the way...... the other thing is CD Rom was found on PS1 way before nintendo got into optical media. N64 was still on catridges.

Btw, I love my PS1-3, and I also love all my nintendos, from NES to Wii(I had every single 1 of em). I am not defending Sony against Nintendo. My purpose of contribution is to enlighten blinded fanbois. And I have no doubts that Nintendo has always been the top gaming innovator, just that they are not the only ones who innovate.


This is really splitting hairs, and also plays no part in controller functionality -- just comfort. The SNES controller had "hand pads," very much like "hand grips," as you can see here:

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/features/hardware/hori-digital-controller/hori-vs-snes-1.jpg

You can insist that adding a fully extended grip is significantly different from a simple extension of the pad if you'd like to. Personally, I think that if there is any real innovation here, it would be with ergomic design of any kind: which, to my knowledge, Sega started, not Sony or even Nintendo (link: http://www.videogamecritic.net/images/systems/gencontroller.jpg ).

Arguing that a "hand grip" is fundamentally different from a "hand pad" is like arguing that 6 frontal buttons (as seen on the N64 controller) is a fundamental evolution from 4 buttons (as seen on the PS controller, even to this day).

Again, I fully believe the PS2 Dual Shock controller is the most polished controller I've ever used. Everything is comfortable, everything is easy to reach, and it had every feature of its time. There's just nothing original about it.



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

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Sega invented the CD for console. Nintendo was about to add that to theirs (copying sega yes) through Sony and yada yada yada Sony backstabbed Nintendo and the Playstation was born. The handle grips I will give them credit for, but there is nothing else the Playstation has ever innovated. The only thing they have ever done on their own is a bunch of weird and super highpowered features (PS3) which really the average player has no need for yet.



DarkD said:
Sega invented the CD for console. Nintendo was about to add that to theirs (copying sega yes) through Sony and yada yada yada Sony backstabbed Nintendo and the Playstation was born. The handle grips I will give them credit for, but there is nothing else the Playstation has ever innovated. The only thing they have ever done on their own is a bunch of weird and super highpowered features (PS3) which really the average player has no need for yet.

Whoa. WHOA. Huge revisionism here. Sony did NOT backstab Nintendo. If anything, it was the other way around -- although it really looks like it went both ways. Nintendo definitely renigged on a signed contract, which was particularly naughty of them; Sony was clearly trying to take control of the operation, including giving Sony considerable leverage on all Nintendo software, which wasn't particularly nice of them. Anyway, you can read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Play_station

Under the "history" section. The most relevant text: "The 9am CES announcement was a complete shock. Not only was it a complete surprise to the show goers (Sony had only just the previous night been optimistically showing off the joint project under the "Play Station" brand), but it was seen by many in the Japanese business community as a massive betrayal: a Japanese company snubbing another Japan-based company in favor of a European one was considered absolutely unthinkable in Japanese business." Clearly, the fallout between Nintendo and Sony was partially, if not largely, Nintendo's fault. 



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

This thread has degenerated into "Who's copying who?" Not specific to functionality, that is why I threw out this example.

If you believe that extension is nothing different, then... you should also believe that the joystick is no different than an analog stick or a Directional pad. As they are all for the purpose of controlling the direction. Ohh... and Sega Dreamcast controllers has some nice hand grips, which they look nuttin like PS1. Somehow Nintendo's N64 has so much similarity.

Btw, the 6-buttons can never be evolved from 4 button PS controllers, coz Sega was the first to have 6 frontal buttons on their controller for their Genesis.



Silver_Z said:

This thread has degenerated into "Who's copying who?" Not specific to functionality, that is why I threw out this example.

If you believe that extension is nothing different, then... you should also believe that the joystick is no different than an analog stick or a Directional pad. As they are all for the purpose of controlling the direction. Ohh... and Sega Dreamcast controllers has some nice hand grips, which they look nuttin like PS1. Somehow Nintendo's N64 has so much similarity.

Btw, the 6-buttons can never be evolved from 4 button PS controllers, coz Sega was the first to have 6 frontal buttons on their controller for their Genesis.


 Ah, thanks, thats a better example. Although I didn't actually believe 6 buttons was a real evolution anyway -- my point was that it isn't :p

Again, this is getting pretty nitty-gritty, but there's a big leap from a Joy stick to a D-pad, while there really isn't one from the "hand pad" to the "hand grip" for several reaons, not the least of which being that they function in the same manner (while D-pads and Joysticks do not). Obviously, you could claim that any change was an innovation: Sony, for example, invented the "circle" button, as well as the "square" button. Those were invented by them, no doubt, but they don't show any real degree of any innovation over, say, an "A" button or a "B" button. So too, the hand grip really wasn't a serious step forward from a hand pad. I'll give credit to whomever originally started designing controllers with ergonomics in mind (again, I believe it was Sega), but not for someone who thought: "hey, let's make this even MORE ergonomic!"



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

If having the prongs vs slightly rounded controller edges is splitting hairs then so is putting buttons on the shoulders vs buttons on the front. Also to my knowledge it was well less than 6+ years before sony added analogue and rumble. As a side note I would like to say I loved my n64, but the rumble pack was next to useless and added an annoying amount of weight to the front of the controller. Sony solved that issue by sticking it in the prongs. The dreamcast controller was a thing of beauty. I really think the vmu concept wasn't pushed far enough. Maybe someday nintendo could innovate something just like it :) You could use your mii's on the go to play mini games and what not. Though I suppose that would invade upon the territory of the ds.



Yes