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Ryuu96 said:

Whenever a developer calls something a "new" engine, it's almost always just the old engine revamped, likewise with Creation Engine, Bungie's Tiger Engine was massively revamped for Destiny 2 cause it ran like shit for Destiny 1 but Tiger Engine was also just an overhauled version of BLAM! Engine. Heck even Unreal Engine 5 is largely just an overhauled version of Unreal Engine 4.

Next to no developer when they say "new engine" actually mean "we completely dumped ever last bit of the last engine and started entirely from scratch" Slipspace may have went further than others, it is hugely overhauled but at its core it is still BLAM! Engine. They further confirm this in the interview posted by G2 where they speak about Slipspace having 25+ year old components.

True. Call of Duty still uses lots of components from 20+ year-old Quake 2 engine. And it serves its purpose just fine. My point was that Slipspace is not really and "old engine" and it's not the main problem with it. The problem with Slipspace is that making game engine just for one game doesn't work in today's world. Microsoft should either invested in it not just for Halo but for other games as well or shouldn't have invested at all.



 

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What about using id tech? Also, having id tech compete with unreal? I really don't understand why they don't push it more both internally and externally.




derpysquirtle64 said:
Ryuu96 said:

Whenever a developer calls something a "new" engine, it's almost always just the old engine revamped, likewise with Creation Engine, Bungie's Tiger Engine was massively revamped for Destiny 2 cause it ran like shit for Destiny 1 but Tiger Engine was also just an overhauled version of BLAM! Engine. Heck even Unreal Engine 5 is largely just an overhauled version of Unreal Engine 4.

Next to no developer when they say "new engine" actually mean "we completely dumped ever last bit of the last engine and started entirely from scratch" Slipspace may have went further than others, it is hugely overhauled but at its core it is still BLAM! Engine. They further confirm this in the interview posted by G2 where they speak about Slipspace having 25+ year old components.

True. Call of Duty still uses lots of components from 20+ year-old Quake 2 engine. And it serves its purpose just fine. My point was that Slipspace is not really and "old engine" and it's not the main problem with it. The problem with Slipspace is that making game engine just for one game doesn't work in today's world. Microsoft should either invested in it not just for Halo but for other games as well or shouldn't have invested at all.

It could also be a meh engine Tbf. It took Bungie two huge overhauls to update Blam! to something not trash. I mean, Infinite looks good and runs well but that's only half the story, we don't know how it is to work with but based on recent rumours, it's still a bit of a nightmare. I bet they were planning on doing deeper overhauls to it but time caught up to them and they've not done anywhere near as many updates as planned.

It's also a fucking nightmare with Microsoft's shitty contractor policy and having to hire people, then spend months teaching them about Slipspace, then losing them, is really counterproductive, whereas you switch to Unreal Engine and everyone in the industry knows that. Slipspace has often been pointed at as a large problem for 343 for various reasons, not because it's "old" but because it's still an archaic engine with little documentation and massively interrupts onboarding new hires.

They could have invested in it for other games but every Xbox studio now is on Unreal Engine pretty much, it's just a lot simpler and easier.



shikamaru317 said:
Machiavellian said:

That is an interesting take because all I hear from you guys is MS do not do remake and if there was a time to do a remake, it probably would be now with a brand new engine.  Forget about continuing the story until you can at least get some measure of interest back into the franchise.

Personally I wouldnt mind a full on reboot.  New studio go do something bold and go all out.  Being held down with how creative you can be by trying to relive the past is always half measures and usually you get half measure results.  Pretty much like GOD of War.  If you believe in your direction and skill set then do not hold back trying to relive past glory because those days are over.  Carve out something better if you believe you can make it.

I just think fans deserve a conclusion to the original storyline before they even think about a full reboot. They setup so much great story stuff for various characters between Halo Infinite and some of the recent novels, it would be a shame to never see payoff on any of that. 

I've never been against remakes from Xbox personally, I would love to see them remaking old stuff like OG Halo, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fable, and more. More CoD remakes too, since they now own that. I just don't want only remakes, I like a good mix of new and old. 

Ok, I see your point and I actually agree.  I really do believe there is still a great story to complete and I would lAove for MC to go out with the bang he deserve.  I also know how new studios and people want to carve out their own destiny and show that one, they can stay true to the lore but also really bring something new to and established series.  I always like for creative teams not to be to limited in how they go about creating a game because many times when a team says we cannot do this or that, they just make a game who direction is never fullfilling because its in between 2 different states. The majority of times the game neither make new fans happy nor the current base and just fail.

As for remakes, I have never bought one.  Once I play a game I just do not have a lot of interesting in revisiting it again just because it received a new coat of paint.



I'd not be surprised if we even see Ubisoft eventually dump all their internal engines and move over to Unreal Engine, if someone acquires Ubisoft then sadly one of the easiest layoff and cost-saving measures will be to dump all the dozens of engine teams, dump the engines themselves and move over to Unreal Engine. Could probably shave off hundreds of employees from that alone.

And it'll also be beneficial to moving Ubisoft like other publishers, that is, laying off thousands and instead of developing everything in-house they like other publishers start using cheap outsourcing, using cheap outsourcing is a lot easier when the external developer doesn't have to learn an entirely new engine they've never worked with before.

We're just going to see more and more proprietary engines die (at least in the AAA space) as Unreal Engine becomes stronger and stronger.



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Cabronakis said:

What about using id tech? Also, having id tech compete with unreal? I really don't understand why they don't push it more both internally and externally.


Dont' have the knowhow but ID tech had issues in the past, Doom 3 was going to be the ID tech pusher but only a handfull of third party games end up using it, I think the original Prey did.

Genshin Impact on xbox sounds good but their is this whole history about it,  Xbox approached MiHoYo first but did not reached an agreement and then Sony stepped in gave them better value (as in cash) + dev support. Also probably why it is not on switch (but is somehow possible on android phones? hmm)..

We had the rumours a few years ago that MS was trying to make a deal for Honkai but again offering seemed to be low...

+4 years later Genshin is coming but if you enjoy it so much and you want to play Honkai on a console or their zenless zone zero that they just released you have to get a PS5 or wait till it come to Xbox...






Cabronakis said:

What about using id tech? Also, having id tech compete with unreal? I really don't understand why they don't push it more both internally and externally.


I would love to see id Tech much heavily more utilized, and I was hoping it would, but it's primarily a linear, FPS only game engine. It's never really been used for anything else. But also, id Software is not a large studio. They would have to hire a lot of engineers to be able to properly support the engine across a lot of studios and teams.

Whereas Unreal Engine, it's insanely easy to find engineers that know how to work in the engine and Xbox was already investing heavily in the engine. Undead Labs even has a dedicated tech studio that only assists with UE. Then you have The Coalition, a studio that even assisted Epic in developing the engine. So there's already a huge number of experts within Xbox on UE, unlike id Tech, that has been proprietary for the past 15 years now that you can't simply undue. 

There's also the case of utilities that are unknowns. My 2 biggest concerns when it comes to Halo in UE5 is Forge and Halo's in-game physics. We haven't seen anything like what Halo offers in id Tech before. So it would, again, take a huge investment of time and resources to be able to modify id Tech to cater to Halo. Something that just isn't necessary when they have a ton of UE experts right there at their disposal. 



derpysquirtle64 said:
Ryuu96 said:

Whenever a developer calls something a "new" engine, it's almost always just the old engine revamped, likewise with Creation Engine, Bungie's Tiger Engine was massively revamped for Destiny 2 cause it ran like shit for Destiny 1 but Tiger Engine was also just an overhauled version of BLAM! Engine. Heck even Unreal Engine 5 is largely just an overhauled version of Unreal Engine 4.

Next to no developer when they say "new engine" actually mean "we completely dumped ever last bit of the last engine and started entirely from scratch" Slipspace may have went further than others, it is hugely overhauled but at its core it is still BLAM! Engine. They further confirm this in the interview posted by G2 where they speak about Slipspace having 25+ year old components.

True. Call of Duty still uses lots of components from 20+ year-old Quake 2 engine. And it serves its purpose just fine. My point was that Slipspace is not really and "old engine" and it's not the main problem with it. The problem with Slipspace is that making game engine just for one game doesn't work in today's world. Microsoft should either invested in it not just for Halo but for other games as well or shouldn't have invested at all.

And Retro has used the Rude Engine since Gamecube which is based on Unreal 2. Prime Remastered. DK Tropical Freeze and Prime 1 Gamecube all on the Rude Engine. In the right hands old tools can still serve well. No denying new engines can offer more. RGG switching to Dragon Engine was a godsend for the gameplay and exploration of Yakuza games.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!