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JRPGfan said:
Dulfite said:

If they release games on multiple platforms, they can projected much higher profits, which means they can go on a hiring spree to greatly expand studios to speed up production so what you just described doesn't happen.

I think thats the wrong way of looking at it.
The reality is gamepass cant support that many big AAA games, that they can now make, with all the big studios they have.

So they have two options:
A) Drop day-and-date on gamepass. Get xbox users to buy games, and still stay subbed to gamepass. Games can stay exclusive to xbox. Gamble on xbox, hope this turns into better console sales, and thus better game sells and subscriptions ect.

B) keep day-and-date on gamepass. Xbox console users, still get best bang-4-buck service, for games. In order to be able to finance, the losses, doing day-and-date on gamepass for xbox users, port games to PS5/Nintendo, and make them pay for it.

They choose option B)

Some of these studios are huge.
Can you imagine if Call of Duty stayed exclusive to xbox and pc?
The majority of their sales come from playstation.
Dropping playstation would mean 100's of millions of profit, going away, every year (CoD is huge).
And thats just 1 game.

Developement costs are big, and xbox console arn't selling that well.... its likely to end the gen, at like 40m.
With how many studios xbox now has, they need to find a way to not just lose money on keeping them.
(imagine spending $80-100 bn, buying studios, only to be loseing money from it? that wouldn't make sense)

^ this is what made them have to choose, between A and B.

Think this is a reasonable analysis of the situation.

Well, I'm not sure it was entirely to do with Game Pass, I think Microsoft just didn't want to wait for 10 or so years for a "maybe we'll improve our console situation" over the tried and proven profit sources. It is what it is, the CFOs won the battle. COD being exclusive of course like you said would make zero financial sense. AAA costs are too much, the small Xbox install-base. Console exclusivity limits their growth via acquisitions. Their Q1 Xbox hardware projections were ~600k IIRC...That's Wii U levels of bad.

They basically fire sale'd Xbox last holiday and still sold meh and under their expectations. Starfield barely provided a bump. Meanwhile look at how amazing Sea of Thieves for example sells on Steam, Xbox IP are often very strong sellers on Steam so it's not like these games don't have large consumer appeal, it's more than Xbox doesn't. It has hit a ceiling where coupled with the costs of AAA development, it's starting to make more sense to go more multiplatform. At least, that's what I think is happening.

I still think there are ways they could make Xbox hardware an option, and also ways they could garner developer support, but they would require drastic changes to both how Xbox creates their hardware and their entire financial system (I.E...Probably have to cut that 30% for developers down to like 15%) + Make the Xbox Store/Windows Store one unified store, something like making the Xbox hardware basically a PC which runs a Windows Gaming OS with an Xbox UI...Something like that, I'm spit balling ideas here but as I said they'd require huge changes.



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Tom Henderson is saying that CoD 2025 does not currently have a main developer and that Sledgehammer Games basically refused as they didn't want a repeat of MW3.

Infinity Ward are doing 2026, Sledgehammer is doing 2027.

He says he now expects 2025 to fall to Treyarch but honestly they should just have a year off then basically have a 1-year dev cycle CoD.



One thing I'm now fascinated by is the notion that, if MS has great success (profit-wise) of launching games on PS5, with Sony already admiting their business model is outdated compared to MS's, how long until Sony follows suit and releases brand new PS5 games on Series S/X?

In a couple years, PS5/NS2 players may be playing Halo and Xbox Series/NS2 users may be playing Spiderman. I would love this!



Ryuu96 said:
JRPGfan said:

I think thats the wrong way of looking at it.
The reality is gamepass cant support that many big AAA games, that they can now make, with all the big studios they have.

So they have two options:
A) Drop day-and-date on gamepass. Get xbox users to buy games, and still stay subbed to gamepass. Games can stay exclusive to xbox. Gamble on xbox, hope this turns into better console sales, and thus better game sells and subscriptions ect.

B) keep day-and-date on gamepass. Xbox console users, still get best bang-4-buck service, for games. In order to be able to finance, the losses, doing day-and-date on gamepass for xbox users, port games to PS5/Nintendo, and make them pay for it.

They choose option B)

Some of these studios are huge.
Can you imagine if Call of Duty stayed exclusive to xbox and pc?
The majority of their sales come from playstation.
Dropping playstation would mean 100's of millions of profit, going away, every year (CoD is huge).
And thats just 1 game.

Developement costs are big, and xbox console arn't selling that well.... its likely to end the gen, at like 40m.
With how many studios xbox now has, they need to find a way to not just lose money on keeping them.
(imagine spending $80-100 bn, buying studios, only to be loseing money from it? that wouldn't make sense)

^ this is what made them have to choose, between A and B.

Think this is a reasonable analysis of the situation.

Well, I'm not sure it was entirely to do with Game Pass, I think Microsoft just didn't want to wait for 10 or so years for a "maybe we'll improve our console situation" over the tried and proven profit sources. It is what it is, the CFOs won the battle. COD being exclusive of course like you said would make zero financial sense. AAA costs are too much, the small Xbox install-base. Console exclusivity limits their growth via acquisitions. Their Q1 Xbox hardware projections were ~600k IIRC...That's Wii U levels of bad.

They basically fire sale'd Xbox last holiday and still sold meh and under their expectations. Starfield barely provided a bump. Meanwhile look at how amazing Sea of Thieves for example sells on Steam, Xbox IP are often very strong sellers on Steam so it's not like these games don't have large consumer appeal, it's more than Xbox doesn't. It has hit a ceiling where coupled with the costs of AAA development, it's starting to make more sense to go more multiplatform. At least, that's what I think is happening.

I still think there are ways they could make Xbox hardware an option, and also ways they could garner developer support, but they would require drastic changes to both how Xbox creates their hardware and their entire financial system (I.E...Probably have to cut that 30% for developers down to like 15%) + Make the Xbox Store/Windows Store one unified store, something like making the Xbox hardware basically a PC which runs a Windows Gaming OS with an Xbox UI...Something like that, I'm spit balling ideas here but as I said they'd require huge changes.

I've often wondered why MS didnt include a dual-boot option for the xbox consoles.
Allow them to run a full windows version, that you can boot into from the console OS.
So you could swap back and forth.

That would be another "check box" for console sales.
This isnt just a console, its also a desktop pc for your kid, that needs to do x,y,z school work ect ect.

Atleast I feel like that would be another, sales argument.

Dulfite said:

One thing I'm now fascinated by is the notion that, if MS has great success (profit-wise) of launching games on PS5, with Sony already admiting their business model is outdated compared to MS's, how long until Sony follows suit and releases brand new PS5 games on Series S/X?

In a couple years, PS5/NS2 players may be playing Halo and Xbox Series/NS2 users may be playing Spiderman. I would love this!


I honestly don't see that happending.
Lets say the gen ends 120m PS5 and 45m series X/S, if they do what you suggest.
Maybe not doing so, could result in a "why not just get a PS5, since it has everything" situation, that then has a beneficial effect on hardware sales.
Lets say that results in a further 5-10m console sales (hypothetically).

I could see Sony picking the extra hardware sales, over trying to win over xbox users, with playstation games.
Also sony has alot of old school mentality, set in their ways, type of people (alot of japanese elders), that probably wouldn't want to see this happending.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 05 February 2024

Dulfite said:

One thing I'm now fascinated by is the notion that, if MS has great success (profit-wise) of launching games on PS5, with Sony already admiting their business model is outdated compared to MS's, how long until Sony follows suit and releases brand new PS5 games on Series S/X?

In a couple years, PS5/NS2 players may be playing Halo and Xbox Series/NS2 users may be playing Spiderman. I would love this!

The reason MS are looking to other platforms is because of Xbox Hardware sales. If they were going to sell ~120m consoles like Sony/Nintendo this wouldn't be on the table. Sony can ignore 40-50m Xbox consoles a lot easier than Xbox can ignore 120m PlayStation consoles. So no I don't see Sony following suit. Simply because they have a lot more to lose and a lot less to gain from doing it than MS.



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Dulfite said:

One thing I'm now fascinated by is the notion that, if MS has great success (profit-wise) of launching games on PS5, with Sony already admiting their business model is outdated compared to MS's, how long until Sony follows suit and releases brand new PS5 games on Series S/X?

In a couple years, PS5/NS2 players may be playing Halo and Xbox Series/NS2 users may be playing Spiderman. I would love this!

By the time Sony would maybe come to that decision, might not be a Xbox traditional console. 2030+ is my guess in if they would consider that. 

Sony seems like they value exclusivity as of now though. Don't see it happening in the next 5 years. 



https://www.trueachievements.com/gamercards/SliferCynDelta.png%5B/IMG%5D">https://www.trueachievements.com/gamer/SliferCynDelta"><img src="https://www.trueachievements.com/gamercards/SliferCynDelta.png

Zippy6 said:
G2ThaUNiT said:

Are you referring to the supposed Zenimax employee? Because I know that was confirmed as fake. I honestly haven't heard from any other sources though in terms of Xbox studios. Only other one I heard was Psychonauts 2 possibly coming to Switch from Tim Scafer on a podcast, but that game was already multiplat since launch. Once the original poster from XboxEra I believe it was started it, everyone started coming with their own "yeah I heard that too" statements. 

It's hard not to imagine where there's smoke, there's fire though. 

I don't think there's been anything from someone at Xbox just yet. Unless you count the Studios Operations Xbox guy liking tweets in support of multiplatform releases yesterday.

That guy's twitter is now privated lol. I assume it wasn't yesterday when Ryuu posted them unless he is one of the few followers. So yeah, that's some smoke.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9497087

I can't find his Twitter at all now, I can't remember what it was, but I wasn't following him so yeah he likely made it private after being harassed or something.



Ryuu96 said:
Zippy6 said:

I don't think there's been anything from someone at Xbox just yet. Unless you count the Studios Operations Xbox guy liking tweets in support of multiplatform releases yesterday.

That guy's twitter is now privated lol. I assume it wasn't yesterday when Ryuu posted them unless he is one of the few followers. So yeah, that's some smoke.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9497087

I can't find his Twitter at all now, I can't remember what it was, but I wasn't following him so yeah he likely made it private after being harassed or something.

https://twitter.com/cowhand_fudca



Dulfite said:

One thing I'm now fascinated by is the notion that, if MS has great success (profit-wise) of launching games on PS5, with Sony already admiting their business model is outdated compared to MS's, how long until Sony follows suit and releases brand new PS5 games on Series S/X?

In a couple years, PS5/NS2 players may be playing Halo and Xbox Series/NS2 users may be playing Spiderman. I would love this!

Things can change, but PlayStation sells too many consoles to do this anytime soon.

Xbox is a gaming service division first, hardware second. PlayStation puts hardware first, services second. Yes, they bank on you buying software and services for their hardware. But they really want you to play PlayStation games on their hardware, not other consoles or PC. Even with more and more PlayStation games coming to PC, that remains unchanged. 



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 161 million (was 73 million, then 96 million, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million, then 156 million)

PS5: 115 million (was 105 million) Xbox Series S/X: 48 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

crissindahouse said:
konnichiwa said:

Can you explain how this will be beneficial to Xbox hardware sales and especially the Xbox ecosystem?

Wouldn't it be better for a consumer to leave the Xbox ecosystem?  

Xbox hardware sales won't increase but the community playing Xbox games will. I mean, I don't own an Xbox console anymore and I'm still an Xbox user who's in the Xbox ecosystem so why should the Xbox ecosystem shrink when more people can play Xbox games? 

Sometimes I have the feeling it personally hurts you guys if more people can play the same games. You lose a console you need for your games, you don't lose the games. 

In theory yeah but the Halo community as an example Xbox + PC is way smaller than the halo community Xbox 360 days.

The Minecraft community on xbox isn't that happy either

Also in general most would not refer to you as an Xbox user but a PC user/PC gamer and you probably know yourself that a lot of Xbox console gamers in MP  did not like to play with PC gamers.  As a Fervent Gears player I was returned to the main menu countless time when some team mates saw the PC icon in the enemy team and left the game. At some point it became so bad that The Coallition turned the option to see if someone was a console player or PC player off.

In my opinion Xbox is the console that people invested in, their gamerscore their friends and so on, and why some like Klobrille and others saw a bright future, they realise now that it isn't that bright and I guess they feel devasted.  The Xbox ecosystem will probably die, MS at some point will probably stop with the hardware, gamerscore, friendslist, the games may continue but how can we be sure?