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Forums - Politics Discussion - The US is ranked as a 'Flawed Democracy', what needs to change?

Chrkeller said:
Hiku said:

Dangerous harmful rhetoric also exists. I don't think every single person that stormed the capitol on Jan 6 was a 'bad person' or had bad intentions.
If someone convinces you that an election was stolen from them, that can drive people into desperation and commiting irrational acts.

If someone is intentionally lying to people in order to convince them of this, then they have a big responsibility for what happens.
The person that went into a pizza place with a shotgun because he heard from Alex Jones that Hillary Clinton runs child pedophile sex traffic ring in its basement, yeah he probably had some screws loose already, but sould we just ignore the scumbags that prey on these gullible individuals for their own personal gain?

The blog of the guy that attacked Pelosi is clearly influencesd by many of these far-right ideologies that are no longer just fringe, but are echoed by their mainstream media and even some of their elected officials.

No one is giving him a pass for what he did. They're just also trying to hold the ones that influenced him responsible.
Because there will just be more and more avoidable incidents as long as that continues.

Perhaps that is my disconnect.  I mean who is dumb enough to believe a child sex ring exists in a pizza joint?  Or Sandy Hook was staged?  Or the election was stolen?  Vaccines are tracking devices?  I just don't get how people fall for such stupidity.  Maybe people simply aren't as smart as I think they are.  

Yeah, the bolded part is one scary/depressing realization I came to a few years ago. I used to think only a minority of people were unable to use critical thinking, fact check for themselves, etc. But now I believe it is much closer to the average person.



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Chrkeller said:
EpicRandy said:

It isn't, crimes have motives however flawed it is. If an action is devoid of motive than it has no more value to the person committing it than any other action like raising your arm when your alone. Motive can be senseless though but their still is.

A person may use made up motive to justify their act but there still is true motives behind it. 

Perhaps.  My experience is limited, but my sister in-law dated a convicted felon.  His family and her family (including me) did everything we could to get him back up and running in society...  it was a complete shit show.  He constantly made poor choices, always had a piss poor excuse and blamed everybody but himself.  We may have to disagree.  I think there is a good many people who are simply bad.  Some dogs bite, others don't.  Genetics, good and bad, do exist.  

Well I get what you say, genetic and early development certainly have an impact on someone behavior. The situation you describe is much related to mental health issue. Things such as Borderline syndrome, narcissistic behavior etc... those may explain why a person act in a way but even then individual action is not devoid of motive. Their motive maybe meaningless to any sane person but there still is motive. 

ex: A borderline mother/grandmother will often pick a favorite child/grand child and may snap at other child in any situation opposing them to her favorite even when their favorite are clearly int he wrong. The bad action is snapping at a child, the motive is to protect her favorite however flawed or insane it is.

Last edited by EpicRandy - on 15 November 2022

EpicRandy said:
  1. Ending the filibuster.
    1. It is by definition an anti democratic tool that will be used to shot down any attempts at reforming pretty much anything.
  2. Reform campaign financing to reduce corruption and end wealth influence over government policies.
  3. Ranked choice voting
  4. Tie representative voting power to the number of vote he/she received. 
    1. This should render gerrymandering useless
    2. Ensure a vote have equal value everywhere in the US no matter how populous the state is.
  5. Give every US citizen the same right to vote by giving statehood to territories that lack one.
    1. This is an obvious flaws to the US democracy and anyone biding against this is clearly not for democracy
  6. Removing the electoral college as it doesn't bring any good for democracy at it's best and can harm it at it's worse.
  7. More accessible and better education.

8. Remove age limitations for political offices. Anybody who is allowed to vote should also be potentially eligible for being voted into an office.



Trump is running again. I hope he loses in the primary, accuses the GoP of stealing the election and splinters the crap out of the party. GoP should have bounced him via (2nd) impeachment when they had the chance.



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Chrkeller said:

Trump is running again. I hope he loses in the primary, accuses the GoP of stealing the election and splinters the crap out of the party. GoP should have bounced him via (2nd) impeachment when they had the chance.

Yes pretty much.

I hope feud between the GOP and Trump reach new height. If Desantis wins the primary against him, he might be so infuriated that he still present himself as independent or a new party altogether.

If that's the case he will split the republican votes in such a way that democrats would be guaranteed a never seen before control over everything.

better still Trump don't care about harming republicans in the slightest, but do care about staving off investigation against him by keeping is candidacy status so it is all the more plausible.



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Chrkeller said:

Trump is running again. I hope he loses in the primary, accuses the GoP of stealing the election and splinters the crap out of the party. GoP should have bounced him via (2nd) impeachment when they had the chance.

The DoJ is gonna move at their own pace, but at this point it may be better for the country to slow roll any prosecution of Trump until after the '24 election. If he's convicted of anything before the election he may become a martyr for the right and they rally around DeSantis. If not then the two may tear each other apart in the primary and divide support too much to stand a chance in the general. Bit of a dilemma in trying to carry out any justice.



EpicRandy said:
Chrkeller said:

Trump is running again. I hope he loses in the primary, accuses the GoP of stealing the election and splinters the crap out of the party. GoP should have bounced him via (2nd) impeachment when they had the chance.

Yes pretty much.

I hope feud between the GOP and Trump reach new height. If Desantis wins the primary against him, he might be so infuriated that he still present himself as independent or a new party altogether.

If that's the case he will split the republican votes in such a way that democrats would be guaranteed a never seen before control over everything.

better still Trump don't care about harming republicans in the slightest, but do care about staving off investigation against him by keeping is candidacy status so it is all the more plausible.

People like DeSantis because he is very logical and calculated, which is a big reason why he's been so effective in Florida. If DeSantis truly is the guy the people think he is, he won't run against Trump as long as Trumps base doesn't falter which is pretty unlikely.

Unless Trumps base dwindles to a clear minority prior to the primaries, going up against Trump would be a terrible decision and very unlike DeSantis. The downsides could be as impactful as the upside, so it would be far too risky to attempt. Losing to Trump, or beating him and splitting the party only to lose to Biden or Newsom, would be the end of DeSantis having any chance at furthering his political career.

All DeSantis would have to do is wait 4 years and the path would be clear for him to automatically become the Republican Presidential candidate. It's not worth the risk in 2024 if Trump remains strong.



Chrkeller said:

Can't bad people simply be bad people? Why does a person need to be put into a political bucket? Bad people exist across all demographics.

What kind of people do you think are the ones who take simple situations and immediately turn them into political ones?

As you said, "bad people exist across all demographics."



ConservagameR said:
EpicRandy said:

Yes pretty much.

I hope feud between the GOP and Trump reach new height. If Desantis wins the primary against him, he might be so infuriated that he still present himself as independent or a new party altogether.

If that's the case he will split the republican votes in such a way that democrats would be guaranteed a never seen before control over everything.

better still Trump don't care about harming republicans in the slightest, but do care about staving off investigation against him by keeping is candidacy status so it is all the more plausible.

People like DeSantis because he is very logical and calculated, which is a big reason why he's been so effective in Florida. If DeSantis truly is the guy the people think he is, he won't run against Trump as long as Trumps base doesn't falter which is pretty unlikely.

Unless Trumps base dwindles to a clear minority prior to the primaries, going up against Trump would be a terrible decision and very unlike DeSantis. The downsides could be as impactful as the upside, so it would be far too risky to attempt. Losing to Trump, or beating him and splitting the party only to lose to Biden or Newsom, would be the end of DeSantis having any chance at furthering his political career.

All DeSantis would have to do is wait 4 years and the path would be clear for him to automatically become the Republican Presidential candidate. It's not worth the risk in 2024 if Trump remains strong.

Trump as already proven to be insufficient twice in a row, you may argue otherwise and blaming x or y but right leaning media is already turning up on him. Even the New York Post pretty much trashed is announcement deriding him as only a Florida man making an announcement fox news even cut his announcement speech down mid way through is announcement. 

If DeSantis is very logical and calculated like you said than he will run against Trump, he has all the reason to. GOP big donors support him not trump, Trump as proven himself inefficient with independent voters, Many GOP figure are looking for other candidate, DeSantis even beats Trumps in many polls for 2024.

Trump simply isn't a good candidate for 2024 and most of the republican party knows it except the few MAGA like MTG. But of course, it still is useful for him as a way to slowdown legal procedure against him or rake up donation money like he likes to do. Would he loose the primary to another candidate, like I said he will more than likely present himself as independent or a new party to keep investigation at bay and donation money flowing. He will destroy the GOP in the process but he as proven time and time again he doesn't care about anything other than himself.

Last edited by EpicRandy - on 18 November 2022

EpicRandy said:
ConservagameR said:

People like DeSantis because he is very logical and calculated, which is a big reason why he's been so effective in Florida. If DeSantis truly is the guy the people think he is, he won't run against Trump as long as Trumps base doesn't falter which is pretty unlikely.

Unless Trumps base dwindles to a clear minority prior to the primaries, going up against Trump would be a terrible decision and very unlike DeSantis. The downsides could be as impactful as the upside, so it would be far too risky to attempt. Losing to Trump, or beating him and splitting the party only to lose to Biden or Newsom, would be the end of DeSantis having any chance at furthering his political career.

All DeSantis would have to do is wait 4 years and the path would be clear for him to automatically become the Republican Presidential candidate. It's not worth the risk in 2024 if Trump remains strong.

Trump as already proven to be insufficient twice in a row, you may argue otherwise and blaming x or y but right leaning media is already turning up on him. Even the New York Post pretty much trashed is announcement deriding him as only a Florida man making an announcement fox news even cut his announcement speech down mid way through is announcement. 

If DeSantis is very logical and calculated like you said than he will run against Trump, he has all the reason to. GOP big donors support him not trump, Trump as proven himself inefficient with independent voters, Many GOP figure are looking for other candidate, DeSantis even beats Trumps in many polls for 2024.

Trump simply isn't a good candidate for 2024 and most of the republican party knows it except the few MAGA like MTG. But of course, it still is useful for him as a way to slowdown legal procedure against him or rake up donation money like he likes to do. Would he loose the primary to another candidate, like I said he will more than likely present himself as independent or a new party to keep investigation at bay and donation money flowing. He will destroy the GOP in the process but he as proven time and time again he doesn't care about anything other than himself.

Where did I say Trump is automatically going to win and where did I blame anyone?

Fox went easy on Trump prior because they cater to the right, but other than Hannity, who knows Trump, the others weren't exactly all in on Trump. They did prefer Trump, but simply because they couldn't stand Hillary and assumed Biden would do a poor job. They weren't really behind Trump back then before the primaries, until he won, then it slowly became clear he far more popular then believed.

Part of why Trump has announced so early, is to get any nonsense out of the way extra early, and build up as strong of a following as he can, so that by the time DeSantis would decide to run, he'd see Trump is strong enough to be a really tough race and would decline to run. Assuming Trump is strong enough at that point in time. If Trumps following is weak by then, DeSantis will run. At that point the only question would be whether or not Trump backs DeSantis or not, because if he doesn't, there's enough Trump loyalists that will refrain from voting and DeSantis will lose to Biden or Newsom.

Trump was a terrible candidate since 2016 apparently. That didn't stop him from becoming President in 2016 and then gaining 11 million more votes in 2020. The mainstream media and politicians don't pick the President, the people do. The GOP is well on its way to becoming MAGA and that's where it's going to end up with either Trump or DeSantis at the helm.