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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Digital Foundry: Xenoblade Chronicles 3

Chrkeller said:
DonFerrari said:

Considering how much they nitpick titles on series and ps they were being quite light on critics for Xenoblade it seems, accepting the HW limitation and all.

You kind of have too.  I mean the Switch is the Switch, it isn't a ps5.  So it isn't realistic to expect 4k ray tracing.  

I sure agree. But sometimes they even forget PS5 and Series X aren't 3090 when they do their review =p



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:
Chrkeller said:

You kind of have too.  I mean the Switch is the Switch, it isn't a ps5.  So it isn't realistic to expect 4k ray tracing.  

I sure agree. But sometimes they even forget PS5 and Series X aren't 3090 when they do their review =p

Agreed 100%.  Especially when checkerboarding to 4k at 60 fps is amazing.  Not being native 4k isn't a big deal at all.  Personally I think upscaling is being undervalued.  



Chrkeller said:
DonFerrari said:

I sure agree. But sometimes they even forget PS5 and Series X aren't 3090 when they do their review =p

Agreed 100%.  Especially when checkerboarding to 4k at 60 fps is amazing.  Not being native 4k isn't a big deal at all.  Personally I think upscaling is being undervalued.  

Considering constraints on horsepower and even though I don`t care much for 60fps I sure would trade-off native 4k30fps for a good upscalling solution (like checkerboard) to have 4k60fps and even more if games is fluid and ok on 30fps to use the savings of the checkerboard on other IQ parts of games.

Haven't played Xeno yet, but for my taste Mario Oddissey looked great.

And a title that push the boundaries of the platform and looks or play better than any that came before deserves praise for it (even if you don't like the particular genre or game) instead of being compared with what is simply not possible on the system.

Last edited by DonFerrari - on 01 August 2022

duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Chrkeller said:
DonFerrari said:

I sure agree. But sometimes they even forget PS5 and Series X aren't 3090 when they do their review =p

Agreed 100%.  Especially when checkerboarding to 4k at 60 fps is amazing.  Not being native 4k isn't a big deal at all.  Personally I think upscaling is being undervalued.  

On a TV when you are sitting back from a distance, it's actually really really difficult to tell if something is sub-4k unless you scrutinize the output heavily. (Provided it's got good scaling and AA)
Even then some games you need a native 4k output next to it to actually notice the difference.

On a PC however you might only be sitting 1 foot away from the panel so you can easily pick out the little details... But I would also argue that in games that intelligently use motion blur, it would be difficult to pick out those smaller details anyway.

Personally I am happy for all games to be 1440P, visuals dialed up, then temporarily reconstructed to 4k with AA on a console.
On PC I prioritize frame-rate anyway and maintain 1440P as I have a high refresh panel... If I can get away with super sampling a game at 4k or 8k, I absolutely will.

Image reconstruction is a big deal, it's good to see developers using it to extract more performance from the old Switch hardware.. And it just makes sense as the hardware never changes... But it also highlights that to get big leaps of fidelity, this is the approach that has to be taken, the hardware is maxed out and we are due for a platform refresh.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

I think their analysis was fair in that they assessed the game according to the hardware it is running on.

An open world Switch game pushing stuff like screen space reflections, per object motion blur, bokeh depth of field, and temporal super resolution is obviously going to come with caveats, that's just the reality of the silicon in question.

It's a substantial step up from Monolith Soft's previous game on the same hardware and that is worthy of praise.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 01 August 2022

Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023. (And over 130 million lifetime)

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Pemalite said:
Chrkeller said:

Agreed 100%.  Especially when checkerboarding to 4k at 60 fps is amazing.  Not being native 4k isn't a big deal at all.  Personally I think upscaling is being undervalued.  

On a TV when you are sitting back from a distance, it's actually really really difficult to tell if something is sub-4k unless you scrutinize the output heavily. (Provided it's got good scaling and AA)
Even then some games you need a native 4k output next to it to actually notice the difference.

On a PC however you might only be sitting 1 foot away from the panel so you can easily pick out the little details... But I would also argue that in games that intelligently use motion blur, it would be difficult to pick out those smaller details anyway.

Personally I am happy for all games to be 1440P, visuals dialed up, then temporarily reconstructed to 4k with AA on a console.
On PC I prioritize frame-rate anyway and maintain 1440P as I have a high refresh panel... If I can get away with super sampling a game at 4k or 8k, I absolutely will.

Image reconstruction is a big deal, it's good to see developers using it to extract more performance from the old Switch hardware.. And it just makes sense as the hardware never changes... But it also highlights that to get big leaps of fidelity, this is the approach that has to be taken, the hardware is maxed out and we are due for a platform refresh.

I have my ps5 set to performance mode and will always take frame rate over resolution.  I've played a few ps5 games at 120 hz, pretty impressive.  I wish more ps5 games supported 120 hz.



Pemalite said:
Chrkeller said:

Agreed 100%.  Especially when checkerboarding to 4k at 60 fps is amazing.  Not being native 4k isn't a big deal at all.  Personally I think upscaling is being undervalued.  

On a TV when you are sitting back from a distance, it's actually really really difficult to tell if something is sub-4k unless you scrutinize the output heavily. (Provided it's got good scaling and AA)
Even then some games you need a native 4k output next to it to actually notice the difference.

On a PC however you might only be sitting 1 foot away from the panel so you can easily pick out the little details... But I would also argue that in games that intelligently use motion blur, it would be difficult to pick out those smaller details anyway.

Personally I am happy for all games to be 1440P, visuals dialed up, then temporarily reconstructed to 4k with AA on a console.
On PC I prioritize frame-rate anyway and maintain 1440P as I have a high refresh panel... If I can get away with super sampling a game at 4k or 8k, I absolutely will.

Image reconstruction is a big deal, it's good to see developers using it to extract more performance from the old Switch hardware.. And it just makes sense as the hardware never changes... But it also highlights that to get big leaps of fidelity, this is the approach that has to be taken, the hardware is maxed out and we are due for a platform refresh.

There are some titles that even DF with pixel counting can't get the right number, but sure most o the time they are able to see it is sub 4k, but not on a way that affects presentation =]

But still for marketing it is easier to say 4k (and if you need it, native 4k) than to say all the graphical elements you used to improve the image.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

I always thought it was interesting people talk about graphics but rarely discuss panel quality. I recently upgraded from a Sony LED to an LG OLED.... ps5 games look so much better on an OLED. Feels like a borderline mid-generation jump just by upgrading my panel.



Chrkeller said:

I always thought it was interesting people talk about graphics but rarely discuss panel quality. I recently upgraded from a Sony LED to an LG OLED.... ps5 games look so much better on an OLED. Feels like a borderline mid-generation jump just by upgrading my panel.

I'm always wishing to buy a LG C1 or CX TV, but my wife always say our TV is working fine and denies me =p

I imagine Switch OLED looks a lot better than the regular one as well.

I know some people said that PSP or Vita, don't remember which, was the best emulator available because of the OLED panel one of the models had.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Chrkeller said:

I always thought it was interesting people talk about graphics but rarely discuss panel quality. I recently upgraded from a Sony LED to an LG OLED.... ps5 games look so much better on an OLED. Feels like a borderline mid-generation jump just by upgrading my panel.

I'm always wishing to buy a LG C1 or CX TV, but my wife always say our TV is working fine and denies me =p

I imagine Switch OLED looks a lot better than the regular one as well.

I know some people said that PSP or Vita, don't remember which, was the best emulator available because of the OLED panel one of the models had.

Check out Costco, if available in your region.  I got the C1 65 inches for $1500 and it comes with a $150 gift card.  Was a really good deal.  The difference between LED and OLED is massive.  The contrast and motion is far superior.