They can't because some of the components in Storm Shadow, etc, come from America, if Trump wanted to he could block those components, not only hurting Ukraine but also for example, UK's own defence, when they can no longer build anymore Storm Shadow's. Sometimes the fascists win, temporarily, as we saw in WW2. As we see with Trump winning the election. Without America's support, I don't see how it's possible for Ukraine to reclaim any more of its stolen territory.

The biggest joke is that Trump will say how awesome he is when Ukraine will surrender big parts of their country and no fighting will happen anymore.

And many will agree because it's not their country so that they don't seem to understand what this means

Americans of the past would be ashamed to see how USA in 2025 will handle Russia

Doing that would also compromise the defense of Europe, as you just said.  If vomitrump wanted to do that, he'd outright anger many in Europe needlessly.  Perhaps he would merely cut off aid.  

There are levels to this kind of thing and i doubt he would want to cause problems for himself.  He'll cause problems for others all day long, but #1 only counts to trump.  He's the worst kind of machiavellian but at least they are somewhat predictable.  I doubt that this may happen unless you can show me more about that.  

Said it before but America's education system of WW2 must be awful. America doesn't understand Nazism in the way that Europe does, America doesn't understand the dangers of Russia in the way that Europe does. America will always look out for America first even if it means screwing over multiple other countries. Least at one stage you could count on America's hate of Russia outweighing these things, now you cannot. I'm pretty sure Americans would happily stand by and watch Europe burn at this stage, even back then they only got directly involved in WW2 because Japan attacked them. Now? They've just elected someone closer to Russia than Europe.

About time Europe realised it's on its own. If America is going to stop supporting us, then we need to stop supporting America and focus on our own needs. This was objectively one of the first *GOOD* things that America has done foreign policy wise in decades, it was such a clear cut example of Good vs Evil. It wasn't America bombing the shit out of a country based on lies, or fucking oil, it wasn't America's piss poor destabilisation of the Middle-East. It was America helping a country fight for its freedom against another country, something America's all too much bang on about, but I guess the fight for freedom is only allowed for Americans and not for other countries? Decades of piss poor foreign policy decisions by America and finally they do ONE good decision and what are they about to do? Throw it all away.

I'm sorry but this is why a lot of the world hates America. If it's not America bombing the shit out of a country, it's America helping another country bomb the shit out of a country and if it's not that, it's now America backstabbing its allies. I'm sorry Americans but right now I hate America and don't consider it to be an ally of the UK or Europe, I am done giving America the benefit of the doubt.

Only way is Europe/Ukraine debasing themselves and playing up massively to Trump's ego, I don't know how that looks, I don't know what Trump has to get in return, but he is an ego driven man, it's an extreme long shot but maybe if Putin refuses Trump's attempt for "peace" it will personally insult Trump so much that he supports Ukraine but this is a fucking pipedream scenario and very, unlikely to happen. Trump has consistently spoken shit about Europe, about Ukraine, about Zelenskyy, praised Putin, praised Kim Jong Un, made it his campaign statement to restrict Ukraine aid, outright told Orban he would cut it off entirely, etc. I don't see it being likely that we can play up to his ego enough to overcome these things.

While it will get a lot more difficult without support from the US, I don't think that Ukraine has to give up now.

While the US is the biggest supporter so far with $84 billion, Europe has already supported Ukraine by $118 Billion, plus 74 Billions to be allocated, so more than double the US total amount.

And with North Korea actively intervening, I'm very sure support from South Korea will skyrocket soon with them finally sending weapons to Ukraine, which they so far refrained from. And that's without getting into non-EU countries support, like Canada or Australia for instance.

Maybe this will also wake up the EU from it's lethargy, though I fear the reasons may run deeper (like a lack of trained production workers and engineers to actually be able to increase production by much). At the very least, this will increase the moral support of Ukraine in most places - and with it, the pressure on the governments to do something for Ukraine.

South Korea probably has to fear that USA will throw them also in front of the truck anytime soon. Because Trump will tell them as well that friendship and protection only works with money

Ukraine only has to give up when it decides it wants to give up, until then I will continue to support them. It's their decision as an independent country. Like WW2 many countries faced impossible odds but did not surrender. We'll see what happens here. But without the USA...I do not see how Ukraine can retake its territory, it's not just the IFVs, MBTs, Artillery Ammo, etc. But the intelligence sharing, America is the best in the world at that, it's the sanctions which America has enforced stronger than Europe.

And does Western Europe have the stomach to go it alone without America? I have strong doubts. Ironically this could be what fractures NATO, there is already a divide between Western Europe and Eastern Europe on the strategy approach, if Western Europe abandons Ukraine then they risk pissing off the entire block of Eastern Europe countries. South Korea may opt to keep their own equipment now, due to the fact that America is an unreliable ally, they can't rely on America to defend them from North Korea and thus decide to reserve their equipment to themselves.

This is basically the same problem Europe has, they could defeat Russia on their own without America but they believe they can't supply Ukraine without hurting their own security, but the issue with that is it's a double edged sword, Yes, Europe could beat Russia on its own, Yes, Europe can't supply Ukraine without hurting their own security, but the only country that threatens Europe is Russia, so it makes sense to send Ukraine all their equipment and make themselves weaker if it means defeating Russia but Europe is afraid to do so because...Russia...It makes no logical sense.

And America can deal with China on their own, Europe has no worry there.

Also, Starmer, Macron, Scholz. Please put your differences aside, any petty arguments, finger pointing about other issues, now is the time to come together more united than ever, forget shit like BREXIT. UK, Germany and France need to step up, politically, militarily, what stronger wakeup call do you need. We're European, America will not look out for our interests, we have to look out for our own. We cannot allow Ukraine to fall to Russia because of what some orange dickhead across the ocean says.

It is probably too late but we need to try, we need to massively step up, we need to take more risks, it's our continent at stake, our European values at stake, our security at stake, none of this shit affects America. Please, UK...Don't become a fucking dog to America once again and do whatever they say. Scholz, grow some balls. Macron, keep up the "Invest European" mindset but back it up with actions.

Do not abandon Eastern Europe FFS. Do not allow Russia to border with Poland. We can't let our allies down. Give Poland a bigger seat at the table, no more of this stupid UK, France, Germany and USA at the big boy table and everyone else excluded, Poland should replace America. They deserve it. They're the highest GDP % spender on their military in NATO and one of the strongest supporters of Ukraine.

P.S. Trump claims he can settle the war in a day, before even getting into office, so by tomorrow we'll know if Trump is a liar (hint: he is).

Oh and a big fat fuck you to Biden.

Over 2 years worth of escalation management all for nothing, he either assumed Harris would win or he didn't care. Those missile restrictions should have been lifted months ago. At least give Ukraine a bigger fighting chance before Trump backstabs them. Still a chance to do the right thing before January but I have my doubts and if Biden doesn't then he can go fuck himself. Damage is already done now even if the restrictions were lifted and only 2 months left for Ukraine to even take advantage of it.