Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

[Ryuu96]

Bofferbrauer2 said:

While it will get a lot more difficult without support from the US, I don't think that Ukraine has to give up now.

While the US is the biggest supporter so far with $84 billion, Europe has already supported Ukraine by $118 Billion, plus 74 Billions to be allocated, so more than double the US total amount.

And with North Korea actively intervening, I'm very sure support from South Korea will skyrocket soon with them finally sending weapons to Ukraine, which they so far refrained from. And that's without getting into non-EU countries support, like Canada or Australia for instance.

Maybe this will also wake up the EU from it's lethargy, though I fear the reasons may run deeper (like a lack of trained production workers and engineers to actually be able to increase production by much). At the very least, this will increase the moral support of Ukraine in most places - and with it, the pressure on the governments to do something for Ukraine.

Ukraine only has to give up when it decides it wants to give up, until then I will continue to support them. It's their decision as an independent country. Like WW2 many countries faced impossible odds but did not surrender. We'll see what happens here. But without the USA...I do not see how Ukraine can retake its territory, it's not just the IFVs, MBTs, Artillery Ammo, etc. But the intelligence sharing, America is the best in the world at that, it's the sanctions which America has enforced stronger than Europe.

And does Western Europe have the stomach to go it alone without America? I have strong doubts. Ironically this could be what fractures NATO, there is already a divide between Western Europe and Eastern Europe on the strategy approach, if Western Europe abandons Ukraine then they risk pissing off the entire block of Eastern Europe countries. South Korea may opt to keep their own equipment now, due to the fact that America is an unreliable ally, they can't rely on America to defend them from North Korea and thus decide to reserve their equipment to themselves.

This is basically the same problem Europe has, they could defeat Russia on their own without America but they believe they can't supply Ukraine without hurting their own security, but the issue with that is it's a double edged sword, Yes, Europe could beat Russia on its own, Yes, Europe can't supply Ukraine without hurting their own security, but the only country that threatens Europe is Russia, so it makes sense to send Ukraine all their equipment and make themselves weaker if it means defeating Russia but Europe is afraid to do so because...Russia...It makes no logical sense.

And America can deal with China on their own, Europe has no worry there.