I just don't get how so many Russians believ their government about every little thing. As Americans, we are basically conditioned at birth to mistrust our government and media, rightfully so. Granted, we swing back and forth from one party to the next, so at all times 40% of the country is angry, 40% is happy, and 20% would just wish everyone would calm down.
Last edited by Dulfite - on 01 April 2022
| GoOnKid said: Now here's something that I would like to get off my chest. My uncle watches russian TV and he believes all the propaganda. Lately he shared a video of some old dude who was stopped by the police and complained about being stopped. He wore a jacket with the russian and german flag on the back along with the phrase 'friends' and the letter z on the back. The police told him that he should remove it and stop showing this in public otherwse he would face further consequences. Now this man complains how - for no reason at all, supposedly - you're not allowed to show a simple random letter from the alphabet anymore without being labeled a criminal. My uncle believes shit like this. We had a familiy meeting lately and he tried to justify the attack and how this conflict started back in 2014 when the Crimea was having a true and fair poll on where it wanted to belong to. Now when I intervend that the Crimea was stolen and there never had been a fair election at all, the topic stopped and we both knew that we wouldn't advance in this topic either way. Meanwhile my brother responded to this video of this old man and told how some of my brothers' coworkers painted the letter z on their helmets and, surprise surprise, they all faced trouble from HR and were told to remove it immediately. And for good reason, because in this same logic, if you wear a swastika publically, you will face consequences as well. If you show the middle finger to a person, you will face consequences as well. But but but, it's just a random letter. But but but, it's just a symbol. But but but, it's just a finger. No, it's not. It has a meaning behind it, and this meaning is very well known. Point is, I don't know how to get him back anymore. I fear he is lost to Putins propaganda just like those russian people that can't believe their own relatives in the Ukraine anymore are lost. |
It's sadly common these days for families to lose one or more members to any of a number of misinformation rabbit holes. I haven't had to deal with it personally yet, but some of my family have lost friends to them. Many people are beyond the help of anyone but a trained professional in a controlled environment that they will never consent to, but short of that the best/only solution I know of is to try and Socratic method them out of their train of thought. No amount of facts and figures lectured at them will convince them. You can lead them with the right questions but it only sticks when they come to the conclusions themselves. Deprogramming is less about showing them the right way than getting them to recognize the contradictions in their own worldview and earnestly start to reassess it. This is also unfortunately very difficult and demanding and you may not know enough about a topic or the right questions to ask to be effective. It sucks.
| GoOnKid said: I am so happy that Ukraine manages to fight back and recoup the land. This is what I was hoping for from the very first day and it warms my heart so much. At the same time I feel some slight remorse for the dead russian soldiers, to be honest, because many of them didn't even know what they were doing in the first place. I don't hate the russians, but I hate the russian government. Now here's something that I would like to get off my chest. My uncle watches russian TV and he believes all the propaganda. Lately he shared a video of some old dude who was stopped by the police and complained about being stopped. He wore a jacket with the russian and german flag on the back along with the phrase 'friends' and the letter z on the back. The police told him that he should remove it and stop showing this in public otherwse he would face further consequences. Now this man complains how - for no reason at all, supposedly - you're not allowed to show a simple random letter from the alphabet anymore without being labeled a criminal. My uncle believes shit like this. We had a familiy meeting lately and he tried to justify the attack and how this conflict started back in 2014 when the Crimea was having a true and fair poll on where it wanted to belong to. Now when I intervend that the Crimea was stolen and there never had been a fair election at all, the topic stopped and we both knew that we wouldn't advance in this topic either way. Meanwhile my brother responded to this video of this old man and told how some of my brothers' coworkers painted the letter z on their helmets and, surprise surprise, they all faced trouble from HR and were told to remove it immediately. And for good reason, because in this same logic, if you wear a swastika publically, you will face consequences as well. If you show the middle finger to a person, you will face consequences as well. But but but, it's just a random letter. But but but, it's just a symbol. But but but, it's just a finger. No, it's not. It has a meaning behind it, and this meaning is very well known. Point is, I don't know how to get him back anymore. I fear he is lost to Putins propaganda just like those russian people that can't believe their own relatives in the Ukraine anymore are lost. |
Does your family live in the former East Germany? I’m assuming so as otherwise I’m at a loss to explain why they are so easily swayed by the Russian propaganda.
| SecondWar said: Does your family live in the former East Germany? I’m assuming so as otherwise I’m at a loss to explain why they are so easily swayed by the Russian propaganda. |
No, we're in the southwest, but I think this issue happens everywhere throughout the country. I believe russian involvmen led to a fair nmber of bad developments in recent years. It is well known that russian bots and trolls played a vital part in the rise of the AFD, a very young but very loud and annoying right-wing party, in the latest years. Also, russian bots played a major role in the pandemic and influenced a lot of people into not vaccinating and being sceptical about literally everything the government says or does. Heck, they even influenced the entire continent, I'd say. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they are somehow involved in the nationalist movements in the Netherlands, France, Italy and Belgium of the recent years. It is also well known that russian bots and scam campaigns influenced the recent US presidency elections. All of this aims to destabilize the people, to induce doubt, fear and distrust, and to weaken the unitiy. I really wish that this bullshit would slow down or even stop for good once Putins bites the dust.
SecondWar said:
Does your family live in the former East Germany? I’m assuming so as otherwise I’m at a loss to explain why they are so easily swayed by the Russian propaganda. |
Read something like r/conspiracy and stuff like that and you get the picture. Unfortunately there are people in every country who believe western liberty and democracy is nothing but a lie, WEF, Nato and Bill Gates are going to enslave us, covid and Ukraine war are arranged by them etc. They don't believe anything media says, so the opposite must be true.
I can't prove it but I think a lot of this stuff comes from Russia. Propaganda warfare they've been doing for ages. Putin's bread and butter given his KGB background. He's even playing the nazi card which has weirdly been all too familiar in western nations too.. there's a far-right asshole involved in something and people are screaming they're all nazis. Putin's now doing it with Azov to paint Ukrainians as nazis.
Ok now I sound like a conspiracy theorist so I better stop. But basically people who have their ideas about New World Order by WEF can be easily swayed by Russian propaganda I think.
| Dulfite said: I just don't get how so many Russians believ their government about every little thing. As Americans, we are basically conditioned at birth to mistrust our government and media, rightfully so. Granted, we swing back and forth from one party to the next, so at all times 40% of the country is angry, 40% is happy, and 20% would just wish everyone would calm down. |
It's no different really.
You have many people in the USA that blindly believe either the right or left propaganda without doing their own research. The pandemic was a disaster in the USA as a result. The difference is, in the USA the two parties condition their followers to mistrust everything the other party does/says, while blindly following their ideas. In Russia the two parties happen to be, Putin and the rest of the world.
Plus Americans are just as conditioned to mistrust any non American / non English news outlets. Yet take Fox News or CNN at face value. The internet only made things worse by providing echo chambers, making it easy to ignore any opposing views / information.
@Ryuu96
Do you think Ukraine should focus their efforts in the southeast instead of Kiev and its surroundings now that Russia has pulled off from there? Seems like losing Donbas and Lugansk would be pretty bad for them as those are the territories Russia always wanted to "liberate".
| GoOnKid said: I am so happy that Ukraine manages to fight back and recoup the land. This is what I was hoping for from the very first day and it warms my heart so much. At the same time I feel some slight remorse for the dead russian soldiers, to be honest, because many of them didn't even know what they were doing in the first place. I don't hate the russians, but I hate the russian government. Now here's something that I would like to get off my chest. My uncle watches russian TV and he believes all the propaganda. Lately he shared a video of some old dude who was stopped by the police and complained about being stopped. He wore a jacket with the russian and german flag on the back along with the phrase 'friends' and the letter z on the back. The police told him that he should remove it and stop showing this in public otherwse he would face further consequences. Now this man complains how - for no reason at all, supposedly - you're not allowed to show a simple random letter from the alphabet anymore without being labeled a criminal. My uncle believes shit like this. We had a familiy meeting lately and he tried to justify the attack and how this conflict started back in 2014 when the Crimea was having a true and fair poll on where it wanted to belong to. Now when I intervend that the Crimea was stolen and there never had been a fair election at all, the topic stopped and we both knew that we wouldn't advance in this topic either way. Meanwhile my brother responded to this video of this old man and told how some of my brothers' coworkers painted the letter z on their helmets and, surprise surprise, they all faced trouble from HR and were told to remove it immediately. And for good reason, because in this same logic, if you wear a swastika publically, you will face consequences as well. If you show the middle finger to a person, you will face consequences as well. But but but, it's just a random letter. But but but, it's just a symbol. But but but, it's just a finger. No, it's not. It has a meaning behind it, and this meaning is very well known. Point is, I don't know how to get him back anymore. I fear he is lost to Putins propaganda just like those russian people that can't believe their own relatives in the Ukraine anymore are lost. |
If you google what does the russian letter Z mean (war related) the result is:
"the Russian Ministry of Defence (MoD) posted on 3 March that the "Z" symbol is an abbreviation of the phrase "for victory" (Russian: за победу, romanized: za pobedu)" - google.
So the Russian Z letter, means "for victory".
Its to show support for military victory against all.
Why is it a problem, that there is a Russian, and german flag alongsides each other, with this Z letter?
Does "Seig Heil" mean anything to you?
The german nazi salute?
It translates as "for ensured victory" (greet the comming victory) (again, google it, if you dont believe it).
So its basically means, anything for victory, believe in victory.
This is VERY simular to what the russian's are doing, with their Z messageing.
Its not a coincidence, that the german flag, alongsides the russian one and the Z letter are there.
You cant help but think "nazi" when you see that.
So the policeman was like "your wearing something that screams nazi", can you please take it off.
And your grandpa is like "why are people telling others what they can or cannot wear!?".
The irony is russia are claiming to come to ukraine to remove nazism....
"And for good reason, because in this same logic, if you wear a swastika publically, you will face consequences as well" - GoOnKid
agreed.
Ryuu96 said:
When word of this spreads to Ukrainian soldiers, oh boy, any Russian soldier about to be encircled by Ukraine better drop their gun and run. |
I've listened to videos with interveiwers, claiming russian soldiers are "acting out" and in weird ways too (likely drunk/high on drugs).
Like disguiseing themselves in womens clothes, looting things, random acts of viloence.
(women's husband had his foot blown off, seemingly because of a soldier for "sh*ts and giggles" used a shotgun they had found, on him)
If theres really videos of that stuff out there (decapitating civilians, burning them alive ect).... any and all good-will still left, will be gone.
Ryuu96 said:
Fuck man, poor woman, call it what it is, a kidnapping, reminds me of Peng Shuai situation =/ |
That tweet really points out well, why its not that easy to trust Russia on this sort of thing.
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