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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

You may have heard about Ukrainian men under 60 being required by law to remain in the country and fight under the country's recent declaration of martial law, while women, children, and the elderly are permitted to leave, and indeed are fleeing in massive numbers. While the country's government may believe in chivalry that way, many Ukrainian women -- from housewives and teachers to beauty queens and members of parliament -- are taking up arms and volunteering to fight as well. Just thought this was a story worth sharing.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 05 March 2022

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Ryuu96 said:
Jaicee said:
You may have heard about Ukrainian men under 60 being required by law to remain in the country and fight under the country's recent declaration of martial law, while women, children, and the elderly are permitted to leave, and indeed are fleeing in massive numbers. While the country's government may believe in chivalry that way, many Ukrainian women -- from housewives and teachers to beauty queens and members of parliament -- are taking up arms and volunteering to fight as well. Just thought this was a story worth sharing.

I've seen a lot of those images and articles of Ukrainian women taking up arms to defend their country, I believe the stat I saw was that 15% of Ukraine's military is made up of women and it wasn't until 2014 when women were allowed to serve.

Ukrainians are seriously impressive, brave, strong, etc. They're seriously inspiring fighting against such an overwhelming force, I don't believe Russia will ever peacefully maintain control of Ukraine.

I agree completely.

In less inspiring women-related news I just found via Feminist Current, PornHub searches for the terms "Ukrainian girl" and "war porn" have surged in the last week or so since Russia invaded Ukraine just to help you lose any faith in humanity that other story might've given you. I feel like puking now.



Phoenix20 said:

The Western media is so dishonest in its cheerleading Ukraine to fight to the last man.
Russia has cut off access to the sea.
Planes delivering aid to Ukraine will be shot down. Send aid by land and Russian troops will stop that.
Russian troops have the cities surrounded by tanks and soldiers with rocket launchers. Backed by air force strikes and missiles from Russia.
Ukraine must save the losses and surrender.

Hard disagree. I don’t know your nationality but I feel safe in assuming you aren’t Ukrainian seeing as it would appear a sizeable majority of the country does not share your viewpoint.

What do you think will happen should they surrender? In additional to being forced to cede territory to Russia they will likely have puppet government installed by Russia, similar to the one Belarus has. Look at how those countries are run and the consequences if you speak-out and you might see why there is a willingness to resist.

If it was your country facing such a situation, would you be prepared to surrender under those terms?

Not seen reports of how Western supplies are being sent but I highly doubt they would be flown anywhere near the frontline due to the risk of interception. They are many things you can do to disguise and protect supply shipments. Not putting them in a massive, obvious 40 mile long convoy for one.



SecondWar said:

What do you think will happen should they surrender?

Well, Putin's plan is pretty obvious, but nobody dares to print it in the papers. What he least wants is a surrender at this time.

Currently it is estimated that 1.5 to 2 mio Ukranians will flee or have fled the country. More will do in the next days so the end result will be:

a) These people are not coming back, ever, on their own.

b) Putin will send Russians to fill the empty spaces so he has at least a good minority number of Russians in the cities. Like the Dombass region he can then claim Russia has to protect those people. A "public vote" will then turn the Ukraine into a Russian province.



Phoenix20 said:

The Western media is so dishonest in its cheerleading Ukraine to fight to the last man.
Russia has cut off access to the sea.
Planes delivering aid to Ukraine will be shot down. Send aid by land and Russian troops will stop that.
Russian troops have the cities surrounded by tanks and soldiers with rocket launchers. Backed by air force strikes and missiles from Russia.
Ukraine must save the losses and surrender.

Something tells me if Putin sent only one solider to fight the war, you would run out of your house yelling I surrender take my partner and kids.



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Jaicee said:

Wondering what Americans are thinking about all this? A new survey of Americans by Reuters and Ipsos conducted since the invasion began has now been released and the results couldn't be any more clear: while most Americans are still against sending in our troops to support the Ukrainian army, they unequivocally, and in a bipartisan manner, favor doing anything and everything short of that that we can possibly do to stop the Russian invasion and support the resistance of the Ukrainian people thereto.

72% of Americans support sending weapons to Ukraine (which we're doing, but could be doing a whole lot more of).

74% favor the U.S. and other NATO countries establishing no-fly zones in Ukraine to stop Russian bombings like Ukrainian President Zelensky has requested. The White House has explicitly ruled this option out on the grounds that such a step risks widening the war.

77% say the United States should seize the assets of Russian oligarchs associated with Vladimir Putin, which is a step President Biden announced we will indeed be pursuing during his State of the Union Address on Monday.

80% of Americans say the United States should stop buying Russian oil, period, and 62% say they're furthermore willing to pay higher prices for gasoline to make this step possible, up from 51% shortly before the invasion. This is an especially serious punitive step the administration clearly has a public mandate to take without risk of widening the war that it so far has refused to take. Let's go Brandon.

81% support imposing tougher sanctions on Russia in general, up from 77% earlier this week.

These positions, moreover, are all remarkably bipartisan in nature. Broad majorities of both Republicans and Democrats alike favor each and every one of these steps. There is just one exception to this rule:

Only 45% of Americans approve of President Biden's overall handling of the crisis, although this is notably up from just 34% last week, suggesting that, as the president has taken stronger actions against Russia, support for the administration's position has increased. The data here also pretty clearly implies what the path is to majority approval: the public wants stronger action taken, even if it means paying a price here at home. Support for stronger action in general appears to literally be growing by the day.

I'm guessing somewhere around 70% of those people asking for "No-fly zones" don't really know what that would mean, given that most people do not support sending troops to Ukraine. 

As for the approval of Biden's handling, given the general popularity of the steps that he has taken, this is likely significantly influenced by partisanship.



twintail said:
Jaicee said:

You may have heard about Ukrainian men under 60 being required by law to remain in the country and fight under the country's recent declaration of martial law, while women, children, and the elderly are permitted to leave, and indeed are fleeing in massive numbers. While the country's government may believe in chivalry that way, many Ukrainian women -- from housewives and teachers to beauty queens and members of parliament -- are taking up arms and volunteering to fight as well. Just thought this was a story worth sharing.

Well, these men are military reservists. It isn't uncommon for a country with a reservists force to expect them to fight during a war time scenario. 

For sure. I just thought the story was worth sharing and adding to that.



I was at work on New Year's Eve and my wife sent me this pic. Never thought it would be this incisive :P has to be Putin's hand there..



Good to see Ukraine putting up some resistance against brutal Russian forces.
Putin threatened and warned he was going to do it.

World said he was bluffing. World laughed, mocked, insulted angry little man from Moscow.

Last edited by Phoenix20 - on 05 March 2022

Wtf. This guy has to be trolling.