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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

I hope this doesn't end with Russia turning into another North Korea, yet 100x more dangerous. Sanctions didn't solve anything in NK and isolation only strengthened the government's hold on the country. Russia can support itself, yet the common people will suffer. Right now Russians need to fight for their country as well, Putin needs to step down, but how. I feel like all the progress that has been made since the iron curtain fell is now gone and then some.

The biggest difference between Putin’s Russia and that of Yeltsin, his patron and predecessor, is that Putin fears and rejects the West. Yeltsin saw the end of the Soviet Union as liberation and the West as a partner. But Putin seeks a reincarnation of the union, not so much in economic or political terms as in geopolitical ones — with Russia representing the polar opposite of the West.

In another respect, Putin’s regime is a continuation of Yeltsin’s. Neither had a strong fixed ideology on the left-right spectrum. Both were driven by the same political motivation: to stay in power and to manipulate elections to keep the opposition out. Yeltsin did it with the support of Russian oligarchs to protect newborn Russian capitalism, private property, and the market economy, but Putin aimed to defend the country’s partly restored international might against the West.

Reads to me like Putin wouldn't mind the isolation, this is from last year btw

Putin essentially faces two choices in 2024: to hand over power to a successor who is fully under his control or to be his own successor and stay in power. His forebodings about history are an important reason why he has, perhaps fatefully, chosen the second option.

No one but Putin himself will confirm that this is actually his intention until the next election is much closer. There is already plenty of talk in Moscow about bringing the date of the 2024 election forward — perhaps to early 2021. Either way, Putin’s bet is based on a strong conviction that his personal power makes Russia stronger and lowers the risk of a perestroika 2.0. And yet, the paradox is that by choosing what he regards as the safest option both domestically and geopolitically, Putin may condemn Russia to a new period of stagnation — and thereby become the unwitting godfather of the very perestroika he seeks to avoid.

Not stagnation, regression is what he ends up with. It seems unlikely he's going to back down willingly.

Putin knows full well that over the past century, almost every Russian leader — from former Soviet premier Nikita Khrushchev to Brezhnev to Gorbachev to Yeltsin — has built up his legitimacy by emphasizing how he is embarking on something new and telling the public that he is erasing the defects of his predecessor. Without mentioning him by name, Putin now attributes catastrophic errors to the man who picked him as his heir. Putin evidently wants to avoid this fate and will not accept ending up as the unfortunate predecessor who suffers by comparison with Russia’s next leader.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/07/31/the-perils-of-perestroika-why-putin-chose-to-prolong-his-rule-a71027

It seems the only way out is China managing to talk some sense into the guy. Otherwise it's going to be a long war :(



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SegaHeart said:

If the War between Russia and Ukraine last for 10 to 15 years that would be messed up then again it would keep Russia preoccupied and not start another war with another small Country.

It would embolden China to take Taiwan if it knows the west is only going to bark.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Russian Tsar Putin has made a terrible decision by direct attack on Ukraine. Mercenaries sent to eliminate Ukraine officials may have been a smarter move.

Putin is more of a Tsar than a Soviet era President. He wants to take Russia back to its glory days. Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Finland.

Last edited by Phoenix20 - on 02 March 2022

The company I work for decided to donate 100k € for humanitarian aid in the Ukraine.



Phoenix20 said:

Russian Tsar Putin has made a terrible decision by direct attack on Ukraine. Mercenaries sent to eliminate Ukraine officials may have been a smarter move.

Putin is more of a Tsar than a Soviet era President. He wants to take Russia back to its glory days. Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Finland.

Agreed, and I also feel like Xi seems to be trying to return to the glory days of Imperial China. The Kims of North Korea are kings in all but the name. I wonder why they use the title of "President."



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Part of me feels that biden wants all this to be happening. He had already thought through the long list of sanctions weeks ago, he spoke about there will be a catastrophic disater of civillian death rate thanks to putin. A crippled russia is exactly what he wants. Was it worth not trying to negotiate with putin, even if not 100%favorable? is it worth the deaths thousands, possible hundreds of thousands if nuclar warfare is used, and half the population fleeing the country , over policies?

The whole point of a government is to ensure the safety and wellbeing of civillians, foremost. And when that all goes to shit, then you have to ask, did they do everything they can. Did the ukraninan govern,ent/president think putin was bluffing? find that hard to believe. Some one please tell me how what is happening now and what will happen, is not worse that trying to come to terms with putin. Of all people , putin is the last person to test patience with. This is all baffling. Which takes me back to, not one of them in power truly care about the people or civillian loss. Biden will be fine with russian taking over and trying to fight ukraine , hoping to get depleted and drainined economically, weakened. Though biden may be right in the end, the death toll will be huge, and all for power.



Pemalite said:
SegaHeart said:

If the War between Russia and Ukraine last for 10 to 15 years that would be messed up then again it would keep Russia preoccupied and not start another war with another small Country.

It would embolden China to take Taiwan if it knows the west is only going to bark.

where will russia keep getting it's money to fight a long war. Russia will have to fight the people , and possibly neighbouring countries. Could china survive the same sanctions russia is getting ?



Phoenix20 said:

Russian Tsar Putin has made a terrible decision by direct attack on Ukraine. Mercenaries sent to eliminate Ukraine officials may have been a smarter move.

Putin is more of a Tsar than a Soviet era President. He wants to take Russia back to its glory days. Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Finland.

You missed out Belarus, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan which also all part of the Soviet Union. Finland is a bit of an outlier as it was part of the Russian Empire but not the Soviet Union. Half of modern day Poland was also in the Russian Empire.



KratosLives said:

Part of me feels that biden wants all this to be happening. He had already thought through the long list of sanctions weeks ago, he spoke about there will be a catastrophic disater of civillian death rate thanks to putin. A crippled russia is exactly what he wants. Was it worth not trying to negotiate with putin, even if not 100%favorable? is it worth the deaths thousands, possible hundreds of thousands if nuclar warfare is used, and half the population fleeing the country , over policies?

The whole point of a government is to ensure the safety and wellbeing of civillians, foremost. And when that all goes to shit, then you have to ask, did they do everything they can. Did the ukraninan govern,ent/president think putin was bluffing? find that hard to believe. Some one please tell me how what is happening now and what will happen, is not worse that trying to come to terms with putin. Of all people , putin is the last person to test patience with. This is all baffling. Which takes me back to, not one of them in power truly care about the people or civillian loss. Biden will be fine with russian taking over and trying to fight ukraine , hoping to get depleted and drainined economically, weakened. Though biden may be right in the end, the death toll will be huge, and all for power.

Putin's idea of negotiating is, "If you obey me, I might not kill you." That's not negotiation, that's extortion. 

Last edited by SanAndreasX - on 02 March 2022

KratosLives said:

Part of me feels that biden wants all this to be happening. He had already thought through the long list of sanctions weeks ago, he spoke about there will be a catastrophic disater of civillian death rate thanks to putin. A crippled russia is exactly what he wants. Was it worth not trying to negotiate with putin, even if not 100%favorable? is it worth the deaths thousands, possible hundreds of thousands if nuclar warfare is used, and half the population fleeing the country , over policies?

The whole point of a government is to ensure the safety and wellbeing of civillians, foremost. And when that all goes to shit, then you have to ask, did they do everything they can. Did the ukraninan govern,ent/president think putin was bluffing? find that hard to believe. Some one please tell me how what is happening now and what will happen, is not worse that trying to come to terms with putin. Of all people , putin is the last person to test patience with. This is all baffling. Which takes me back to, not one of them in power truly care about the people or civillian loss. Biden will be fine with russian taking over and trying to fight ukraine , hoping to get depleted and drainined economically, weakened. Though biden may be right in the end, the death toll will be huge, and all for power.

NOBODY wants this, except Putin. Take off the tinfoil hat.