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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

crissindahouse said:

There are some from the extreme left or right in many countries who don't want to support Ukraine and even some who are on Russia's side but the majority definitely wants to support Ukraine. Not only because they need help but obviously also because we know that Russia wouldn't stop there. We already defend Poland, Estonia, Lithuania and so on with our support of Ukraine.

And that some people who don't even have something bad in mind still really believe Russia only wants to fight Nazis is astonishing.

As an example of that, there was reportedly a far-left march in Germany over the weekend which had the DPR flag call for the west to be crushed. Also cited Mali (where France had gone in to stop an Al-Qaeda linked Islamist group) and Gaza.

What I always find odd with those groups is how the international causes they support seem to be completely at odds with their own ideology. The Islamist group in Mali would have repressed them. The DPR is not a communist group, but a Russian nationalist one, but presumably seems all good in their eyes as it evokes the Soviet Union. Also the irony of them criticising Western action in various places but supporting the similar actions by Russia in those places.



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Bofferbrauer2 said:
S.Peelman said:

As a Dutchman I can probably safely say that pretty much every one in my very European country thinks Putin is a war criminal, and should be in The Hague to answer for his idiocy sooner rather than later, mr. Amnesia.

Same here in Luxembourg, where he's often ridiculed as Vlad Putain (same meaning as in French) and increasingly compared to Bokassa.

Our right-wing party, ADR, dropped from ~12% to 7% in polls practically overnight simply because they don't want to hurt Putin or support Ukraine.

Here most rightwing parties have actually grown, according to polls, in the last few years, though Prime Minister Rutte's VVD has lost considerably. They have however actually mostly condemned Putin's actions and supported sanctions. Even Geert Wilders's party PVV, though he has been indifferent about sanctions saying they hurt us instead while not doing much against Russia. The only real supporter of Putin here is Thierry Baudet, the leader of the extreme-right party FvD, who recently even said that "Putin is a fantastic guy" and that "NATO and the 'American Empire' should fall". Needless to say indeed his party has lost a lot of support according to the polls this past year going from 5 seats of 150 (3%) at the last elections in 2021 to 3 (so 2%) in the last polls. Ironically though he could have been huge, he was at 28 seats (about 19%) at one point in polls some years ago, before the previous elections, until he started to become.. well, mentally insane really. I guess we dodged a bullet there as a country.

Last edited by S.Peelman - on 16 January 2023

SecondWar said:

As an example of that, there was reportedly a far-left march in Germany over the weekend which had the DPR flag call for the west to be crushed. Also cited Mali (where France had gone in to stop an Al-Qaeda linked Islamist group) and Gaza.

What I always find odd with those groups is how the international causes they support seem to be completely at odds with their own ideology. The Islamist group in Mali would have repressed them. The DPR is not a communist group, but a Russian nationalist one, but presumably seems all good in their eyes as it evokes the Soviet Union. Also the irony of them criticising Western action in various places but supporting the similar actions by Russia in those places.

I think people frequently justify themselves by arguing that their actions are different for "reasons". 

Some will basically compartmentalize modern Nazis as justifiable for reasons while agreeing that WWII Nazis as evil. 







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SecondWar said:

As an example of that, there was reportedly a far-left march in Germany over the weekend which had the DPR flag call for the west to be crushed. Also cited Mali (where France had gone in to stop an Al-Qaeda linked Islamist group) and Gaza.

What I always find odd with those groups is how the international causes they support seem to be completely at odds with their own ideology. The Islamist group in Mali would have repressed them. The DPR is not a communist group, but a Russian nationalist one, but presumably seems all good in their eyes as it evokes the Soviet Union. Also the irony of them criticising Western action in various places but supporting the similar actions by Russia in those places.

It isn't odd in the slightest. The reason why we have the terminology "far-left" and "far-right" is to separate reasonable people from idiots. Idiots are defined by being unable and/or unwilling to connect the dots, so they happen to support contradictory positions on a regular basis.

The far-left and far-right aren't too different in their thinking patterns, but the far-right has to be regarded as more dangerous because of their higher willingness to resort to violence in order to push their ideals through.

When it comes to political parties, the far-left and far-right ones primarily rely on protest voters for whom it's more about being against the established parties rather than being for the fringe parties. The major draw of the far-left and the far-right is that they propose easy (and therefore usually completely unrealistic) solutions to complex problems. So whenever there's a crisis that affects people in the given country, the fringe parties tend to see a boost.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.



RolStoppable said:
SecondWar said:

As an example of that, there was reportedly a far-left march in Germany over the weekend which had the DPR flag call for the west to be crushed. Also cited Mali (where France had gone in to stop an Al-Qaeda linked Islamist group) and Gaza.

What I always find odd with those groups is how the international causes they support seem to be completely at odds with their own ideology. The Islamist group in Mali would have repressed them. The DPR is not a communist group, but a Russian nationalist one, but presumably seems all good in their eyes as it evokes the Soviet Union. Also the irony of them criticising Western action in various places but supporting the similar actions by Russia in those places.

It isn't odd in the slightest. The reason why we have the terminology "far-left" and "far-right" is to separate reasonable people from idiots. Idiots are defined by being unable and/or unwilling to connect the dots, so they happen to support contradictory positions on a regular basis.

The far-left and far-right aren't too different in their thinking patterns, but the far-right has to be regarded as more dangerous because of their higher willingness to resort to violence in order to push their ideals through.

When it comes to political parties, the far-left and far-right ones primarily rely on protest voters for whom it's more about being against the established parties rather than being for the fringe parties. The major draw of the far-left and the far-right is that they propose easy (and therefore usually completely unrealistic) solutions to complex problems. So whenever there's a crisis that affects people in the given country, the fringe parties tend to see a boost.

They also outnumber the "far-left" by a factor of like 1:100.
Gather enough crazy ppl one place, and its a risk factor in itself.

Plus I'd argue the far right, mentality is overall just more dangerous for society than what the far-left want.





I didn't even know we had a Patriot system let alone one to give, but hey.