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Forums - Politics - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

SvennoJ said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

I think the main reason is that they reported at home for 4 years that the war is going well, so pulling out would be political suicide. I'm fairly sure the higher-ups in the Russian military are aware that Ukraine won't crumble anytime soon.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if this actually is what Putin gets to hear, it's very well possible that he's only getting fed embellished lies, too. Like he got told before the war that the Ukrainians would greet the Russian troops with open arms or about the state of the Russian military back then. I mean, how long since you would have sacked Shoigu in his place?

It's insane how Trump is on the exact same path with Iran...

Well, he really seems to like Putin's way of doing things...



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Zkuq said:
SvennoJ said:

It's insane how Trump is on the exact same path with Iran...

Well, he really seems to like Putin's way of doing things...

It’s almost as if Trump has done this in order to deflect away from other things, whether that’s the Epstein scandals, or his own lack of either direction or substance I. His own presidency.  Trump really hasn’t accomplished much in this little war except for some missiles and drones shot off.  Why continue the conflict? 

Whenever somebody is really upset with someone and you can’t figure it out then that is a reason to start asking questions. 



shavenferret said:
Zkuq said:

Well, he really seems to like Putin's way of doing things...

It’s almost as if Trump has done this in order to deflect away from other things, whether that’s the Epstein scandals, or his own lack of either direction or substance I. His own presidency.  Trump really hasn’t accomplished much in this little war except for some missiles and drones shot off.  Why continue the conflict? 

Whenever somebody is really upset with someone and you can’t figure it out then that is a reason to start asking questions. 

Trump continues the conflict because he can only escalate or have to accept a loss, and he doesn't have the popular support to escalate. He bit off more than he can chew, basically.



M&Ms : an operation shelved for now.

I read a couple of weeks ago that Zelensky was considering an operation which he hoped would end the war and force the Russians to give up. This is apparently what he was referring to. Code-named M&Ms, this operation would have drones coming down to Russian airports and blowing stuff up. Perhaps Zelensky became dismayed with the potential for civilian casualtie.

I really don’t know and the article goes into no detail, other than that this operation won’t happen for now.

Should civilian jetliners be av acceptable target, especially against a nation that commits war crimes without any regard?



shavenferret said:

Should civilian jetliners be av acceptable target, especially against a nation that commits war crimes without any regard?

No. I'm already uncomfortable enough with the grey area Ukraine is operating in, but attacking purely civilian equipment with expected high civilian losses would be just evil. Maybe there's a way to destroy the equipment when there's no or only few people around, but it would still be attacks against purely civilian targets and for little benefit but potentially losing a lot of sympathy and hence possibly actual support as well. Also, it would be a great reason for Russia to actually mobilize the population - popular support might just be there in that case.



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Zkuq said:
shavenferret said:

Should civilian jetliners be av acceptable target, especially against a nation that commits war crimes without any regard?

No. I'm already uncomfortable enough with the grey area Ukraine is operating in, but attacking purely civilian equipment with expected high civilian losses would be just evil. Maybe there's a way to destroy the equipment when there's no or only few people around, but it would still be attacks against purely civilian targets and for little benefit but potentially losing a lot of sympathy and hence possibly actual support as well. Also, it would be a great reason for Russia to actually mobilize the population - popular support might just be there in that case.

I get your point if the planes were full and in the air but I read it as the airliners would be empty and on the ground. Certainly if they were targeted at night when airports have little to no civilians around that would likely be permissible.

Also if these were some if the that were western-owned jets that were essentially stolen at the start of the war then they're definitely in more of the grey area as it could be said they're ill-gotten gains or used to evade sanctions.



SecondWar said:
Zkuq said:

No. I'm already uncomfortable enough with the grey area Ukraine is operating in, but attacking purely civilian equipment with expected high civilian losses would be just evil. Maybe there's a way to destroy the equipment when there's no or only few people around, but it would still be attacks against purely civilian targets and for little benefit but potentially losing a lot of sympathy and hence possibly actual support as well. Also, it would be a great reason for Russia to actually mobilize the population - popular support might just be there in that case.

I get your point if the planes were full and in the air but I read it as the airliners would be empty and on the ground. Certainly if they were targeted at night when airports have little to no civilians around that would likely be permissible.

Also if these were some if the that were western-owned jets that were essentially stolen at the start of the war then they're definitely in more of the grey area as it could be said they're ill-gotten gains or used to evade sanctions.

I don't think it's permissible by any international laws because they're still civilian targets, stolen or not. My stance is that violating those laws is not something to be done lightly. I have some understanding for damaging the economy of an attacker, but I have much less understanding for discomforting the populace in hope of causing a regime change or something. But like I said, I don't think it would be a good move, even if it was legal. There's plenty of examples of the resolve not weakening or even it strengthening when suffering is caused to the populace.



Zkuq said:
SecondWar said:

I get your point if the planes were full and in the air but I read it as the airliners would be empty and on the ground. Certainly if they were targeted at night when airports have little to no civilians around that would likely be permissible.

Also if these were some if the that were western-owned jets that were essentially stolen at the start of the war then they're definitely in more of the grey area as it could be said they're ill-gotten gains or used to evade sanctions.

I don't think it's permissible by any international laws because they're still civilian targets, stolen or not. My stance is that violating those laws is not something to be done lightly. I have some understanding for damaging the economy of an attacker, but I have much less understanding for discomforting the populace in hope of causing a regime change or something. But like I said, I don't think it would be a good move, even if it was legal. There's plenty of examples of the resolve not weakening or even it strengthening when suffering is caused to the populace.

Not necessarily. If they're used to evade sanctions or transport military equipment this dual usage would make them legitimate targets, provided efforts were taken to minimise any collateral civilian casualties.

This is why targeting Russia's civilian oil tankers isn't a war crimes.



SecondWar said:
Zkuq said:

I don't think it's permissible by any international laws because they're still civilian targets, stolen or not. My stance is that violating those laws is not something to be done lightly. I have some understanding for damaging the economy of an attacker, but I have much less understanding for discomforting the populace in hope of causing a regime change or something. But like I said, I don't think it would be a good move, even if it was legal. There's plenty of examples of the resolve not weakening or even it strengthening when suffering is caused to the populace.

Not necessarily. If they're used to evade sanctions or transport military equipment this dual usage would make them legitimate targets, provided efforts were taken to minimise any collateral civilian casualties.

This is why targeting Russia's civilian oil tankers isn't a war crimes.

I doubt civilian airliners can carry enough cargo to make it worthwhile in any meaninful quantities. Rail is what it's all about, and in Russia even more so. There might be a stronger argument against airports, but I can't imagine even that being a very strong argument, because Russia probably has a lot of military airports as well. The argument against civilian airports might hold up well enough in practice, but personally I wouldn't bet on it.

I also doubt that sanctions that were put in place by individual countries rather than the United Nations really count for much in terms of international law, and I don't remember reading about UN sanctions against Russia, probably because of the Security Council. Personally I'm not necessarily opposed to attacking anything used to evade even these probably non-UN sanctions, but civilian casualties are probably still something to keep in mind.

I imagine oil tankers are capable of carrying enough cargo to make them technically be able to carry military equipment as well, so that's probably a much stronger argument (at least in theory - benefit of doubt etc.). Regarding sanctions, it's probably not legal either. I reckon Russia isn't transporting military equipment in any major quantities by sea, but I could definitely be wrong about that. I believe the attacks against oil tankers are at least 95% about money, possible even 100%. I'm cautiously in favour of the attacks, but only because I believe it's much more justified than Russia's attack on Ukraine, and a major part of that is that expected civilian casualties from that are probably quite low. I have concerns about any potential consequences of this in the long term, however.

Last edited by Zkuq - on 21 August 2026

WSJ learns likely reason for CIA director's visit to Moscow

CIA Director John Ratcliffe travelled to Russia because US intelligence had gathered information indicating that Moscow was making early preparations for a possible military mobilisation.

Source: European Pravda, citing The Wall Street Journal

Details: WSJ reported that the US had collected intelligence showing that Russia was making early preparations for a possible military mobilisation for its war against Ukraine and had plans to test NATO's resolve. Analysts have suggested that Ratcliffe may have met with Kremlin ruler Vladimir Putin to deliver a warning.

Background:

CBS was the first media outlet to report Ratcliffe's visit. Reports of his visit emerged after a US Air Force Boeing C-17A Globemaster III transport plane and a US diplomatic motorcade were spotted at a Moscow airport. The US asked Ukraine to suspend strikes on Russia during the US delegation's visit. The last time a CIA director visited Russia in person was in November 2021, when William Burns travelled to Moscow to warn the Kremlin at the highest level that the US was aware of its preparations for a large-scale invasion of Ukraine.
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2026/08/25/8050302/