By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Could the Xbox Series S be the Bridge for Switch 2 to have more Last Gen Games?

SanAndreasX said:

If Nintendo can make a system that comes close to the Series S in power while still keeping it at Nintendo's preferred price point for volume, that would be a good thing as long as game companies make games that will run on Series S. But I would also like for Nintendo to start thinking of the Switch as an ecosystem in that I would like to be able to bring my Switch library onto its successor.

True, and I would be angry with Nintendo if we can't use our Switch library with the next system.



Around the Network
hinch said:

I can see the Switch 2 (in terms of power) ending in the way of how the Switch is positioned currently, and what porting situation is going to be like.

Going by Nintendo's previous choices in SoC's. They'll choose an existing off the shelf product and work around that. And assuming that dev kits have been rolling out since last year and rumors are true.. the latest SoC I see Nintendo building upon for the next console is going to be based on Nvidia's Tegra - Xavier. Which is Volta based architecture. This architecture is two generation behind current gen and in a SoC similar envelope (10-15W) would most likely place this below a Steam Deck. Even if we consider Nintendo requesting the new custom silicon to be built using the latest node by TSMC/Samsung.

So much closer to the last generation consoles than the newer ones in capability and raw compute.

First Gen Switch has a Tegra X1, a recycled 2015 Chip released 2 years later for Switch. Xavier is a 2019 chip (3 years old now), Because of Switch Success, longetivity and Orin chip (Next Gen) announced on March 2018, I can see Switch 2 using at least a custom Orin Chip. I can see them working closer with Nvidia for the best options, maybe we can even get 10GB of Ram, 8GB + 2 GB like Series S... Maybe haha.



Funny to see people 'celebrating' the 'gimped' Series S as a bridge to a hypothetical Switch 2, hoping a Switch 2 will be a lot more powerful than the Switch. Which is it? Do you want moar powar or less powar :p

I don't think Nintendo is in a hurry with a Switch successor, nor do they care much about higher specs. I doubt any Switch 2 will exceed the Steam Deck and certainly won't come near PS5 and Series X. How well Series S will be supported after the cross gen period is behind remains to be seen. Lower res, lower fps, lower detail, it can only go so far. A Switch 2 might compare to a base ps4 in terms of performance. I wouldn't expect more.

The Switch was originally pegged at 1 tflops as well, turned out to be 340-390 gflop (docked) in practice. Series S is 'gimped' compared to ps5 and Series X yet is still 10x faster than the Switch in raw tlops count. I doubt a Switch 2 will be 10x faster than the Switch. Even if it would be half as fast as Series S, porting will still be difficult when Series S is already stretching the limits to keep up with Series X.

Also memory will be a bottleneck. Switch has 25.6 GB/s bandwidth, Series S runs at 224 GB/s, another 10x difference. Doubt a Switch 2 will get 10x faster RAM.

Will Switch 2 have a high speed SSD? 2.4 GB/s throughput on Series S, Switch cards top out at 104 MB/s, Series S is 23x faster!

Once games are targeted for this generation, it will get a lot harder to port down.

In the end priorities for Nintendo are reasonable starting price while making profit from day one. Everything included has to be able to be sold for $299 at a profit.



No. If Switch 2 uses DLSS all it has to do is render games like 540P and they can be upscaled to 1080P.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

SvennoJ said:

Funny to see people 'celebrating' the 'gimped' Series S as a bridge to a hypothetical Switch 2, hoping a Switch 2 will be a lot more powerful than the Switch. Which is it? Do you want moar powar or less powar :p

I don't think Nintendo is in a hurry with a Switch successor, nor do they care much about higher specs. I doubt any Switch 2 will exceed the Steam Deck and certainly won't come near PS5 and Series X. How well Series S will be supported after the cross gen period is behind remains to be seen. Lower res, lower fps, lower detail, it can only go so far. A Switch 2 might compare to a base ps4 in terms of performance. I wouldn't expect more.

The Switch was originally pegged at 1 tflops as well, turned out to be 340-390 gflop (docked) in practice. Series S is 'gimped' compared to ps5 and Series X yet is still 10x faster than the Switch in raw tlops count. I doubt a Switch 2 will be 10x faster than the Switch. Even if it would be half as fast as Series S, porting will still be difficult when Series S is already stretching the limits to keep up with Series X.

Also memory will be a bottleneck. Switch has 25.6 GB/s bandwidth, Series S runs at 224 GB/s, another 10x difference. Doubt a Switch 2 will get 10x faster RAM.

Will Switch 2 have a high speed SSD? 2.4 GB/s throughput on Series S, Switch cards top out at 104 MB/s, Series S is 23x faster!

Once games are targeted for this generation, it will get a lot harder to port down.

In the end priorities for Nintendo are reasonable starting price while making profit from day one. Everything included has to be able to be sold for $299 at a profit.

Agree. Nintendo has not chased power since the GameCube. Also people misjudge the limiting factor of going handheld. Nintendo will be targeting 10x or less power draw for the small form factor, battery and cooling. No matter how good the latest nvidea chip is the form factor wont let it get close to the series x. 

But I disagree that it will come behind the steam deck. Theres no way. Just by it launching 2 years after I think the switch will be on top even if not by much. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Around the Network
eva01beserk said:

Agree. Nintendo has not chased power since the GameCube. Also people misjudge the limiting factor of going handheld. Nintendo will be targeting 10x or less power draw for the small form factor, battery and cooling. No matter how good the latest nvidea chip is the form factor wont let it get close to the series x. 

But I disagree that it will come behind the steam deck. Theres no way. Just by it launching 2 years after I think the switch will be on top even if not by much. 

Steamdeck hasn't launched yet :p Plus the cheapest version is most likely sold as a loss, that $399 starting point (already $100 over Switch) is to make it seem comparable to the Switch price. $529 for the 256GB version is more on target.

Switch 2 will likely start at $299 again and won't be sold at a loss. I also doubt Nintendo will put more than 8GB ram in Switch 2 (4 in Switch, 16 in Steamdeck)

Switch has a 16 Watt Hours battery providing 4.5 to 9 hours of gameplay.
Steamdeck has 40 Watt Hours battery for 2 to 8 hours of gameplay.

Steamdeck is much larger so it can have a much bigger battery, still less play time.
Steamdeck is 669 grams, Switch is 399 grams, Switch lite is 277 grams, Switch OLED 422 grams.
Switch 2 won't be any bigger, if anything Nintendo will want to make a smaller sleeker unit like the Switch Lite.

Switch 2 will have less power available, less room for components, needs to cost less, I doubt 2 years is enough for it to match current Steamdeck proposal. (Still at least a month away for any unit to show up) Of course it could be longer before a Switch 2 shows up.



SvennoJ said:

Funny to see people 'celebrating' the 'gimped' Series S as a bridge to a hypothetical Switch 2, hoping a Switch 2 will be a lot more powerful than the Switch. Which is it? Do you want moar powar or less powar :p

I don't think Nintendo is in a hurry with a Switch successor, nor do they care much about higher specs. I doubt any Switch 2 will exceed the Steam Deck and certainly won't come near PS5 and Series X. How well Series S will be supported after the cross gen period is behind remains to be seen. Lower res, lower fps, lower detail, it can only go so far. A Switch 2 might compare to a base ps4 in terms of performance. I wouldn't expect more.

The Switch was originally pegged at 1 tflops as well, turned out to be 340-390 gflop (docked) in practice. Series S is 'gimped' compared to ps5 and Series X yet is still 10x faster than the Switch in raw tlops count. I doubt a Switch 2 will be 10x faster than the Switch. Even if it would be half as fast as Series S, porting will still be difficult when Series S is already stretching the limits to keep up with Series X.

Also memory will be a bottleneck. Switch has 25.6 GB/s bandwidth, Series S runs at 224 GB/s, another 10x difference. Doubt a Switch 2 will get 10x faster RAM.

Will Switch 2 have a high speed SSD? 2.4 GB/s throughput on Series S, Switch cards top out at 104 MB/s, Series S is 23x faster!

Once games are targeted for this generation, it will get a lot harder to port down.

In the end priorities for Nintendo are reasonable starting price while making profit from day one. Everything included has to be able to be sold for $299 at a profit.

We are not celebrating but doing assumptions on how Series S could help Switch for third party titles. Sure we want more power, people got angry because they didn't get the "Pro" haha.

Switch could get 1 tflop in FP16 and 512 in FP32, so is not the same, the switch has 393.2 tflops in FP32 (Docked) so theorically it can reach 786.4 tflops in FP16.

Next point, you're comparing current Switch with series S for bandwich, we are talking about the Next Switch, Current Nvidia Chip is ORIN so:

Series S VS ORIN:

Series S:

4 TFlops, 8 GB GDDR6 RAM @ 224 GB/s with 128-bit bus & 2 GB RAM @ 56 GB/s

ORIN:

4 TFlops Max (theoretically), Up to 32GB LPDDR5 RAM @ 200 GB/s with 256-bit bus.

You're right with the Switch cards, they are pretty slow for current gen standards, we could have long times loading some games if we continue using the same speeds on SD cards.



Doctor_MG said:

It's going to be much stronger than the Xbox One power wise. To start, they will likely use Orin which has a theoretical peak of 4TFLOPS. Though they will reduce clocks so we can assume 2TFLOPS docked would be more likely.

In this context... Teraflops is a useless metric.

For starters, it's theoretical not real world... Secondly, more to rendering a game than the amount of single precision floating point math that can be done via compute.

Doctor_MG said:

It also has a 12 core CPU and 200GB/s memory bandwidth, so the CPU will be far more capable and, even if they only put 8GB of RAM in the Switch 2, the amount of data they can transfer will be quadruple what the Xbox One could.

Doesn't mean the Switch 2 will have it.
And just because you have "lots" of CPU cores, doesn't mean you will have more CPU resources than fewer, faster ones.

But let's be real here... Jaguar in the Xbox One, Playstation 4, Xbox One X, Playstation 4 Pro is hot garbage, it was still faster than the 7th gen Cell and Xenon, but it wasn't the game changer Ryzen was.

8GB is is fine if they keep the OS slim (Unlikely) and only target 1080P or less. (Likely.)

Doctor_MG said:

Then we have DLSS, which would allow for the Switch to render only a 720p picture in order to upscale to 1440p and look decent enough (whereas currently the Xbox Series S is rendering each pixel). Basically, even if Nintendo lowers just about everything on the Orin chip in order to save on power draw it will still be far more capable than an Xbox One or One S console. 

No. The Series S isn't "rendering each pixel". - It's up to the developers... And many developers have employed their own image upscaling technologies and frame reconstruction techniques on the Xbox Series S.

DLSS isn't the only path forward.

eddy7eddy said:

I belive too that won't be as powerful as Series S, but theorically speaking, lastest Nvidia 2022 mobile chip ORIN can give a fight to Series S in RAW power. And i believe we're gonna have a custom Chip only for Switch, Last time they recycled the Nvidia Shield chip.

Because of inflation I can see a $400 Switch 2 after Nintendo decrease all Switch Models by $50, so Switch 2 for $400 and Switch 1 OLED for $300.

Atlan got announced last year as the next Tegra chip to succeed ORIN.

Although it will sample in 2023, so availability likely falls on 2024-2025, which is unlikely to end up in a Nintendo console who tends to opt for more conservative hardware choices.

A cut down ORIN might make sense... But it's not as fast as a Series S... The CPU alone, Zen is a step up.

eddy7eddy said:

Exactly, I was thinking the same with Orin chip, it's a 2022 chip, good timing for Switch 2, but because how successfull Switch is, we are going to have now a custom chip from Nvidia based in Orin or even next Gen, using more advantage than current Switch SoC.

The era of fully custom chips has come to an end I am afraid... Far to costly and complex now... Nintendo is about keeping hardware costs low.

But I think a modified Xavier or Orin in order to retain full backwards compatibility is highly likely.


I think one of my biggest hopes is for an increase to the Switch cart size and performance.

eddy7eddy said:

We are not celebrating but doing assumptions on how Series S could help Switch for third party titles. Sure we want more power, people got angry because they didn't get the "Pro" haha.

Switch could get 1 tflop in FP16 and 512 in FP32, so is not the same, the switch has 393.2 tflops in FP32 (Docked) so theorically it can reach 786.4 tflops in FP16.

Next point, you're comparing current Switch with series S for bandwich, we are talking about the Next Switch, Current Nvidia Chip is ORIN so:

Series S VS ORIN:

Series S:

4 TFlops, 8 GB GDDR6 RAM @ 224 GB/s with 128-bit bus & 2 GB RAM @ 56 GB/s

ORIN:

4 TFlops Max (theoretically), Up to 32GB LPDDR5 RAM @ 200 GB/s with 256-bit bus.

You're right with the Switch cards, they are pretty slow for current gen standards, we could have long times loading some games if we continue using the same speeds on SD cards.

1 Teraflop in Orin is not going to be equivalent to 1 Teraflop on the Series S and is not going to be equivalent to 1 Teraflop on the OG Switch... Not in terms of actual real world applicable gaming performance.




--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

SvennoJ said:
eva01beserk said:

Agree. Nintendo has not chased power since the GameCube. Also people misjudge the limiting factor of going handheld. Nintendo will be targeting 10x or less power draw for the small form factor, battery and cooling. No matter how good the latest nvidea chip is the form factor wont let it get close to the series x. 

But I disagree that it will come behind the steam deck. Theres no way. Just by it launching 2 years after I think the switch will be on top even if not by much. 

Steamdeck hasn't launched yet :p Plus the cheapest version is most likely sold as a loss, that $399 starting point (already $100 over Switch) is to make it seem comparable to the Switch price. $529 for the 256GB version is more on target.

Switch 2 will likely start at $299 again and won't be sold at a loss. I also doubt Nintendo will put more than 8GB ram in Switch 2 (4 in Switch, 16 in Steamdeck)

Switch has a 16 Watt Hours battery providing 4.5 to 9 hours of gameplay.
Steamdeck has 40 Watt Hours battery for 2 to 8 hours of gameplay.

Steamdeck is much larger so it can have a much bigger battery, still less play time.
Steamdeck is 669 grams, Switch is 399 grams, Switch lite is 277 grams, Switch OLED 422 grams.
Switch 2 won't be any bigger, if anything Nintendo will want to make a smaller sleeker unit like the Switch Lite.

Switch 2 will have less power available, less room for components, needs to cost less, I doubt 2 years is enough for it to match current Steamdeck proposal. (Still at least a month away for any unit to show up) Of course it could be longer before a Switch 2 shows up.

Sure its bigger. But remember the steam deck does not have a dock mode. So its able to pull full juice while on battery wich the switch cant. I dont even think the switches fan turns on if is not docked. That's the biggest diference the small size diference will benefit the steam deck. While dock I do belive the switch 2 should pull ahead. I guess that does depend on what Nintendo chooses to go with. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

SvennoJ said:

Funny to see people 'celebrating' the 'gimped' Series S as a bridge to a hypothetical Switch 2, hoping a Switch 2 will be a lot more powerful than the Switch. Which is it? Do you want moar powar or less powar :p

I don't think Nintendo is in a hurry with a Switch successor, nor do they care much about higher specs. I doubt any Switch 2 will exceed the Steam Deck and certainly won't come near PS5 and Series X. How well Series S will be supported after the cross gen period is behind remains to be seen. Lower res, lower fps, lower detail, it can only go so far. A Switch 2 might compare to a base ps4 in terms of performance. I wouldn't expect more.

The Switch was originally pegged at 1 tflops as well, turned out to be 340-390 gflop (docked) in practice. Series S is 'gimped' compared to ps5 and Series X yet is still 10x faster than the Switch in raw tlops count. I doubt a Switch 2 will be 10x faster than the Switch. Even if it would be half as fast as Series S, porting will still be difficult when Series S is already stretching the limits to keep up with Series X.

Also memory will be a bottleneck. Switch has 25.6 GB/s bandwidth, Series S runs at 224 GB/s, another 10x difference. Doubt a Switch 2 will get 10x faster RAM.

Will Switch 2 have a high speed SSD? 2.4 GB/s throughput on Series S, Switch cards top out at 104 MB/s, Series S is 23x faster!

Once games are targeted for this generation, it will get a lot harder to port down.

In the end priorities for Nintendo are reasonable starting price while making profit from day one. Everything included has to be able to be sold for $299 at a profit.

A 10x jump in GPU performance generation over generation is not unheard of, in fact that’s about how much more powerful the Series X is than the Xbox One. 

I think you are overestimating the costs of a lot of these parts, especially in 2024. Valve is getting Xbox One level graphical performance with a modern CPU and an SSD on par with the Series X|S, and LPDDR5 memory that matches the bandwidth of GDDR6, all for $500 in 2022. And they don’t have the volume/price advantages that Nintendo will have. I absolutely think a switch 2 with Series S performance in 2024 for $400 will be achievable