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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Cloud Games + Fiber vs. Physical/Downloaded Games

 

What is better?

Native no matter what 30 81.08%
 
Fiber + Cloud 2 5.41%
 
I don't have Fiber so my ... 5 13.51%
 
Total:37
Azzanation said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Why would I be worried about that? My phone provider holds no data from my phone. If my phone provider one day goes down, I can go to a different phone provider without any issue because the data is on my phone. My call history? On my phone. My text messages? On my phone. All my apps and such? On my phone.

The difference is with cloud games, all the data is on the cloud servers and none of it is on your device.

Again, you continue to make no sense... How about you start coming up with half decent arguments that actually make sense instead of replying with nonsense arguments?

Gamers today are so entitled. I guess you hate Cloud saves to right?

If you don't like Streaming, than don't Stream the games, its an option. Buy the games digitally or Physically. Streaming is not going away, get use to it and stop pretending everything shuts down. Its misleading. 

Its as dumb as saying to someone that you hate renting games. Don't rent them.

How am I pretending when we have seen cloud streaming services going down in the past? I don't dislike cloud gaming as an option and you would know that if you read the entire original post.

Why do you keep moving goal posts? What does cloud saves have to do with anything? What does renting have to do with anything?



             

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Cloud gaming is the future, it just is.

I was impressed with SONy’s buyout of gaikai, a future centered move that quickly was shelved for no reason. MS is pushing in the right direction.



Eurogamer did a very in depth review of Cloud vs Digital (with physical as a footnote) impact on the environment.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-10-13-gaming-downloads-climate-crisis

Summary:
- Physical is as bad as downloading 128GB or more worth of data.
If you only install a game once (and none so far are 128GB or more) then it's better to buy digital.
However, with pro consoles, BC (if it doesn't download the full game anyway), cross-gen, deleting to make room, sharing and the second-hand market it's not that clear cut.

- Digital downloads are better depending on time played.
It's about 10GB per 2 hours play time. If you play more, digital download is better. Play less, streaming is better for the environment.

Of course there are other factors with streaming. Streaming is not very efficient if you do it on your console or desktop. They still use all the power, might as well render it all locally. Thin power saving clients are best for streaming.

Oh and one example, playing the same game on Switch vs high end desktop, factor 1:20 difference in eco footprint.

Rest mode and patches are bad. Consoles constantly keeping a vast library of downloaded games up to date cost a lot of extra power. Best to decide what to play before downloading a whole bunch and try a little here and there. And only patch what you want to play.



I am in the middle of nowhere and I have a DSL connection with 13mbps down, and I have both Control and Hitman 3 running perfectly on my Switch via wifi, even in 60fps



"Quagmire, are you the type of guy who takes 'no' for an answer ?"
"My lawyer doesn't allow me to answer that question"

PSN ID: skmblake | Feel free to add me

Captain_Yuri said:
Azzanation said:

Gamers today are so entitled. I guess you hate Cloud saves to right?

If you don't like Streaming, than don't Stream the games, its an option. Buy the games digitally or Physically. Streaming is not going away, get use to it and stop pretending everything shuts down. Its misleading. 

Its as dumb as saying to someone that you hate renting games. Don't rent them.

How am I pretending when we have seen cloud streaming services going down in the past? I don't dislike cloud gaming as an option and you would know that if you read the entire original post.

Why do you keep moving goal posts? What does cloud saves have to do with anything? What does renting have to do with anything?

Because the issue is misinforming people. Sure some services shut down and some don't. Just because some do doesn't mean they all will. People continue to use the "They will shut it down" excuse. Heck people still believe that with digital stores. Steam has been around since 2003, World of Warcraft servers have been around since 2004, what makes you think a popular service will just shut down? They might very well outlive you. Just because a digital store shuts down doesn't mean Steam will.

Moving goal posts? what are you on? I am giving you examples on the topic at hand. You want to own your games, cool, and you may continue to do so. 

Streaming is no different to the old rental days, except instead of walking into video stores to loan games on specific hardware, you can do it via online, and pay much better prices without dedicated hardware. How dare they.

You use Cloud saves right? Guess what, if those cloud servers shut down, so do your saves. Yet majority are grateful for it because its more likely that you would lose your local saves than the Cloud losing your data. Much like game preservation.



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Azzanation said:
Captain_Yuri said:

How am I pretending when we have seen cloud streaming services going down in the past? I don't dislike cloud gaming as an option and you would know that if you read the entire original post.

Why do you keep moving goal posts? What does cloud saves have to do with anything? What does renting have to do with anything?

Because the issue is misinforming people. Sure some services shut down and some don't. Just because some do doesn't mean they all will. People continue to use the "They will shut it down" excuse. Heck people still believe that with digital stores. Steam has been around since 2003, World of Warcraft servers have been around since 2004, what makes you think a popular service will just shut down? They might very well outlive you. Just because a digital store shuts down doesn't mean Steam will.

Moving goal posts? what are you on? I am giving you examples on the topic at hand. You want to own your games, cool, and you may continue to do so. 

Streaming is no different to the old rental days, except instead of walking into video stores to loan games on specific hardware, you can do it via online, and pay much better prices without dedicated hardware. How dare they.

You use Cloud saves right? Guess what, if those cloud servers shut down, so do your saves. Yet majority are grateful for it because its more likely that you would lose your local saves than the Cloud losing your data. Much like game preservation.

Telling people to be cautious based on past events that happened isn't miss informing people. I even said I like Hybrid cloud services... Maybe you should re-read the original post that you quoted?

Most of your examples aren't even related to the topic. The original post that you quoted is about my issue with buying individual cloud only games where as you stated random things like paying for electricity bills, phone data, gas provider... Like what even? Most of your examples aren't even in the same situation as cloud only game streaming.

That's some crazy mental gymnastics you got going on with your renting example. This isn't about renting a game, this is about buying a game outright that's cloud only. Again moving goal posts...

You do realize that with cloud saves... The save file is saved both on the device and cloud? So you do have the option to download all your cloud saves and save them onto your device so if the servers go down, you saves are still there. Where as with Cloud only games... Oh look, you don't have a choice. I have no idea why you choose cloud saves as an example cause I like cloud saves because you can have the saves both on your device and on the cloud. Similar to how I like the Hybrid cloud gaming on my original post where you can play the game on both your local device or on the cloud. And if the cloud provider shuts of their servers, then you still have access to your games and progress.

Last edited by Captain_Yuri - 6 days ago

             

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Captain_Yuri said:

Telling people to be cautious based on past events that happened isn't miss informing people. I even said I like Hybrid cloud services... Maybe you should re-read the original post that you quoted?

Most of your examples aren't even related to the topic. The original post that you quoted is about my issue with buying individual cloud only games where as you stated random things like paying for electricity bills, phone data, gas provider... Like what even? Most of your examples aren't even in the same situation as cloud only game streaming.

That's some crazy mental gymnastics you got going on with your renting example. This isn't about renting a game, this is about buying a game outright that's cloud only. Again moving goal posts...

You do realize that with cloud saves... The save file is saved both on the device and cloud? So you do have the option to download all your cloud saves and save them onto your device so if the servers go down, you saves are still there. Where as with Cloud only games... Oh look, you don't have a choice. I have no idea why you choose cloud saves as an example cause I like cloud saves because you can have the saves both on your device and on the cloud. Similar to how I like the Hybrid cloud gaming on my original post where you can play the game on both your local device or on the cloud. And if the cloud provider shuts of their servers, then you still have access to your games and progress.

If you are only referring to Streaming only services, than the simply solution is.. don't buy games on a Streaming only service, its that simple. Instead of spreading and downplaying the slight and rare chance the servers shutting down. 

Your entire argument is like telling someone not use Netflix because it might shutdown one day. People don't care, majority just want to watch or play games. Weather that's our preferred method is not the point. I also collect games, especially ones i like however i don't downplay other options like digital or streaming. After all you are talking to an industry full of people who have to pay for online multiplayer, so even if they own the physical games, they really only own half of it.

Last edited by Azzanation - 6 days ago

Azzanation said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Telling people to be cautious based on past events that happened isn't miss informing people. I even said I like Hybrid cloud services... Maybe you should re-read the original post that you quoted?

Most of your examples aren't even related to the topic. The original post that you quoted is about my issue with buying individual cloud only games where as you stated random things like paying for electricity bills, phone data, gas provider... Like what even? Most of your examples aren't even in the same situation as cloud only game streaming.

That's some crazy mental gymnastics you got going on with your renting example. This isn't about renting a game, this is about buying a game outright that's cloud only. Again moving goal posts...

You do realize that with cloud saves... The save file is saved both on the device and cloud? So you do have the option to download all your cloud saves and save them onto your device so if the servers go down, you saves are still there. Where as with Cloud only games... Oh look, you don't have a choice. I have no idea why you choose cloud saves as an example cause I like cloud saves because you can have the saves both on your device and on the cloud. Similar to how I like the Hybrid cloud gaming on my original post where you can play the game on both your local device or on the cloud. And if the cloud provider shuts of their servers, then you still have access to your games and progress.

If you are only referring to Streaming only services, than the simply solution is.. don't buy games on a Streaming only service, its that simple. Instead of spreading and downplaying the slight and rare chance the servers shutting down. 

Your entire argument is like telling someone not use Netflix because it might shutdown one day. People don't care, majority just want to watch or play games. Weather that's our preferred method is not the point. I also collect games, especially ones i like however i don't downplay other options like digital or streaming. After all you are talking to an industry full of people who have to pay for online multiplayer, so even if they own the physical games, they really only own half of it.

Except it's not that rare of a chance. We have had a number of examples of cloud streaming services shutting down in the past and we have no idea what SE's track record will be. Considering how anti-consumer this industry can be, it's not a bad thing to advise people of the downsides if they are going to buy a cloud game from a company that has yet to have a good enough track record to be considered a safe purchase. And because with cloud streaming only, if the company decides to stop it's cloud service, you literately lose everything... If this was say xCloud or PSNow, it would be a different story as I have said good things about them in the past but those are subscription based that nets you a ton of games every month, allows you to download games onto your device if you have a console and have a good track record.

Netflix is also not the same thing. Yes it's streaming but subscription services like Netflix offer a ton of content for a low monthly price. The topic at hand is buying an individual cloud only game for a full price.



             

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Captain_Yuri said:

Except it's not that rare of a chance. We have had a number of examples of cloud streaming services shutting down in the past and we have no idea what SE's track record will be. Considering how anti-consumer this industry can be, it's not a bad thing to advise people of the downsides if they are going to buy a cloud game from a company that has yet to have a good enough track record to be considered a safe purchase. And because with cloud streaming only, if the company decides to stop it's cloud service, you literately lose everything... If this was say xCloud or PSNow, it would be a different story as I have said good things about them in the past but those are subscription based that nets you a ton of games every month, allows you to download games onto your device if you have a console and have a good track record.

Netflix is also not the same thing. Yes it's streaming but subscription services like Netflix offer a ton of content for a low monthly price. The topic at hand is buying an individual cloud only game for a full price.

Well that's where the choice remains up to the individual. Buying a game off a unknown service with only having the option to stream will obviously net some warnings. However if you were to pay a sub to stream games (Renting the service) i see no issue with it what so ever. 

A good example of your point is Google Stadia, which only offers the service as you have to pay full price for the games to own and can only than be streamed, however if Google ever plans on shutting down the service, i believe their would be either refunds granted or law suits that would take place. However if Stadia falls, most likely something like Google Stadia will continue to operate only for access to already owned content by coexisting customers or Google can simply change the hands of the service to someone else to allow current customers access. Its not as simple as they will shut the service down and screw over paid customers. Especially for a half trillion dollar company who can afford to maintain the service. The only real scenario where they can shut it down and everyone losers, is if Google went bankrupt which we know the chances of that happening, probably not in our life times. 

Last edited by Azzanation - 5 days ago

Azzanation said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Except it's not that rare of a chance. We have had a number of examples of cloud streaming services shutting down in the past and we have no idea what SE's track record will be. Considering how anti-consumer this industry can be, it's not a bad thing to advise people of the downsides if they are going to buy a cloud game from a company that has yet to have a good enough track record to be considered a safe purchase. And because with cloud streaming only, if the company decides to stop it's cloud service, you literately lose everything... If this was say xCloud or PSNow, it would be a different story as I have said good things about them in the past but those are subscription based that nets you a ton of games every month, allows you to download games onto your device if you have a console and have a good track record.

Netflix is also not the same thing. Yes it's streaming but subscription services like Netflix offer a ton of content for a low monthly price. The topic at hand is buying an individual cloud only game for a full price.

Well that's where the choice remains up to the individual. Buying a game off a unknown service with only having the option to stream will obviously net some warnings. However if you were to pay a sub to stream games (Renting the service) i see no issue with it what so ever. 

A good example of your point is Google Stadia, which only offers the service as you have to pay full price for the games to own and can only than be streamed, however if Google ever plans on shutting down the service, i believe their would be either refunds granted or law suits that would take place. However if Stadia falls, most likely something like Google Stadia will continue to operate only for access to already owned content by coexisting customers or Google can simply change the hands of the service to someone else to allow current customers access. Its not as simple as they will shut the service down and screw over paid customers. Especially for a half trillion dollar company who can afford to maintain the service. The only real scenario where they can shut it down and everyone losers, is if Google went bankrupt which we know the chances of that happening, probably not in our life times. 

Google doesn't have the best track record of keeping their (non successful) services alive tbf - https://killedbygoogle.com/ I bought a bunch of music on Google Music only for the service to be shut down. The thing is having games physically in your collection is way different than having access to play them remotely on a cloud server. Where you have complete control over one, the other well.. is well out of your hands entirely.

Personally after my experience with cloud media including some games being pulled from stores, I wouldn't touch cloud gaming with a barge poll. Ymmv of course.

Last edited by hinch - 5 days ago