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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo cuts the base Switch's price in Europe

Ashadelo said:

There is no way Gamecube was more powerful than the xbox. You are the first person I ever heard make such a claim. Gamecube games did not look as good as xbox.

I didn't say it was as powerful. I said there were a few things that it could do better, which is true.

As for the games, well... that's just my opinion. I did think, for the most part, that the best-looking Xbox games looked better (graphically speaking) than the best looking Gamecube games but not by a huge margin. It wasn't night and day like it was between PS2 and Xbox. Now those two systems were a gap apart. If you don't believe me, go find a comparison video of the first Splinter Cell on PS2 and Xbox and see for yourself. 



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JackHandy said:
Ashadelo said:

There is no way Gamecube was more powerful than the xbox. You are the first person I ever heard make such a claim. Gamecube games did not look as good as xbox.

I didn't say it was as powerful. I said there were a few things that it could do better, which is true.

As for the games, well... that's just my opinion. I did think, for the most part, that the best-looking Xbox games looked better (graphically speaking) than the best looking Gamecube games but not by a huge margin. It wasn't night and day like it was between PS2 and Xbox. Now those two systems were a gap apart. If you don't believe me, go find a comparison video of the first Splinter Cell on PS2 and Xbox and see for yourself. 

Yeah PS2 to Xbox was a pretty significant gap, and Gamecube was definitely closer to the Xbox within that disparity. 



curl-6 said:
JackHandy said:

I didn't say it was as powerful. I said there were a few things that it could do better, which is true.

As for the games, well... that's just my opinion. I did think, for the most part, that the best-looking Xbox games looked better (graphically speaking) than the best looking Gamecube games but not by a huge margin. It wasn't night and day like it was between PS2 and Xbox. Now those two systems were a gap apart. If you don't believe me, go find a comparison video of the first Splinter Cell on PS2 and Xbox and see for yourself. 

Yeah PS2 to Xbox was a pretty significant gap, and Gamecube was definitely closer to the Xbox within that disparity. 

While it didn't release on the Xbox RE4 is a good example of the PS2's lacking visuals compared to the other two. The Gamecube version is a lot nicer looking.



Norion said:
curl-6 said:

Yeah PS2 to Xbox was a pretty significant gap, and Gamecube was definitely closer to the Xbox within that disparity. 

While it didn't release on the Xbox RE4 is a good example of the PS2's lacking visuals compared to the other two. The Gamecube version is a lot nicer looking.

Yeah RE4 is one of the best looking games on both Gamecube and PS2, but the Gamecube version has better lighting, geometry, textures, and effects.



JackHandy said:
Ashadelo said:

There is no way Gamecube was more powerful than the xbox. You are the first person I ever heard make such a claim. Gamecube games did not look as good as xbox.

I didn't say it was as powerful. I said there were a few things that it could do better, which is true.

As for the games, well... that's just my opinion. I did think, for the most part, that the best-looking Xbox games looked better (graphically speaking) than the best looking Gamecube games but not by a huge margin. It wasn't night and day like it was between PS2 and Xbox. Now those two systems were a gap apart. If you don't believe me, go find a comparison video of the first Splinter Cell on PS2 and Xbox and see for yourself. 

Every device has aspects where they can beat the competition in regards to their fundamental hardware nuances.

I.E. The Playstation 2 had superior optical disks over Gamecube.
Or the PS2 had higher system memory bandwidth.

But at the end of the day... A single aspect isn't the sum of it's parts.

OG Xbox games like Morrowinds pixel-shader water and truly open world... Doom 3's heavy use of stencil shadows, Half Life 2's texture work, Chronicles of Riddicks amazing character animations/facial work which could arguably beat some early 7th gen attempts, FarCry's heavy foliage and HDR lighting...

And even Conker with it's incredible fur shader and it's single ray-traced cone light model.

If you had an OG Xbox... You knew you were playing on hardware that would provide a glimpse of what 7th gen was going to be about... Sadly the console didn't make sales records so it's games support could have been better to show the hardware off... But same could be said about the gamecube.

Where Nintendo's strengths lay is that it generally didn't pursue hyper-realistic graphics, so it's games tended to age better, even if they were technically inferior.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

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Pemalite said:
JackHandy said:

I didn't say it was as powerful. I said there were a few things that it could do better, which is true.

As for the games, well... that's just my opinion. I did think, for the most part, that the best-looking Xbox games looked better (graphically speaking) than the best looking Gamecube games but not by a huge margin. It wasn't night and day like it was between PS2 and Xbox. Now those two systems were a gap apart. If you don't believe me, go find a comparison video of the first Splinter Cell on PS2 and Xbox and see for yourself. 

Every device has aspects where they can beat the competition in regards to their fundamental hardware nuances.

I.E. The Playstation 2 had superior optical disks over Gamecube.
Or the PS2 had higher system memory bandwidth.

But at the end of the day... A single aspect isn't the sum of it's parts.

OG Xbox games like Morrowinds pixel-shader water and truly open world... Doom 3's heavy use of stencil shadows, Half Life 2's texture work, Chronicles of Riddicks amazing character animations/facial work which could arguably beat some early 7th gen attempts, FarCry's heavy foliage and HDR lighting...

And even Conker with it's incredible fur shader and it's single ray-traced cone light model.

If you had an OG Xbox... You knew you were playing on hardware that would provide a glimpse of what 7th gen was going to be about... Sadly the console didn't make sales records so it's games support could have been better to show the hardware off... But same could be said about the gamecube.

Where Nintendo's strengths lay is that it generally didn't pursue hyper-realistic graphics, so it's games tended to age better, even if they were technically inferior.

Nintendo arcade roots always put playing in the first place. 

Last edited by Agente42 - on 22 September 2021

Pemalite said:


Where Nintendo's strengths lay is that it generally didn't pursue hyper-realistic graphics, so it's games tended to age better, even if they were technically inferior.

Nintendo themselves did tend to, yeah, but I still feel we got some amazing looking "realistic" graphics on Gamecube from others that leveraged the hardware's strengths really well, like RE4 with its very high polygon models and superb effects work, and the Rogue Squadron games with their deluge of shaders, particles, and light sources at 60fps.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 22 September 2021

curl-6 said:
Pemalite said:


Where Nintendo's strengths lay is that it generally didn't pursue hyper-realistic graphics, so it's games tended to age better, even if they were technically inferior.

Nintendo themselves did tend to, yeah, but I still feel we got some amazing looking "realistic" graphics on Gamecube from others that leveraged the hardware's strengths really well, like RE4 with its very high polygon models and superb effects work, and the Rogue Squadron games with their deluge of shaders, particles, and light sources at 60fps.

The thing with games like Resident Evil 4... Is that if it was ported to say... The OG Xbox, the pixel shaders could have been put to work to increase visual fidelity.

Even when the game got ported to the PS2, the visual quality hit wasn't catastrophically massive, which lent credence to the art direction over technical prowess that drove that titles visual makeup.

Rogue Squadron was very impressive, it didn't use shaders... Rather it combined textures to "simulate" shader effects.
As the game was, it wouldn't have been possible to run it on any other platform, but if they reworked the engine and relied on Pixel shaders instead, there wouldn't have been any logical reason why it couldn't have looked even better, especially from a lighting perspective if they built a deferred render like Shrek or leveraged a cone ray traced light bounce like conker.

Plus the OG Xbox had more Ram, so it could fit more textures... Plus superior texture compression to make better use of it's memory pool.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Pemalite said:
curl-6 said:

Nintendo themselves did tend to, yeah, but I still feel we got some amazing looking "realistic" graphics on Gamecube from others that leveraged the hardware's strengths really well, like RE4 with its very high polygon models and superb effects work, and the Rogue Squadron games with their deluge of shaders, particles, and light sources at 60fps.

The thing with games like Resident Evil 4... Is that if it was ported to say... The OG Xbox, the pixel shaders could have been put to work to increase visual fidelity.

Even when the game got ported to the PS2, the visual quality hit wasn't catastrophically massive, which lent credence to the art direction over technical prowess that drove that titles visual makeup.

Rogue Squadron was very impressive, it didn't use shaders... Rather it combined textures to "simulate" shader effects.
As the game was, it wouldn't have been possible to run it on any other platform, but if they reworked the engine and relied on Pixel shaders instead, there wouldn't have been any logical reason why it couldn't have looked even better, especially from a lighting perspective if they built a deferred render like Shrek or leveraged a cone ray traced light bounce like conker.

Plus the OG Xbox had more Ram, so it could fit more textures... Plus superior texture compression to make better use of it's memory pool.

I don't doubt that those games could have benefitted if they were built for Xbox, my point was more that I think Gamecube still had some awesome looking realistic graphics along with Nintendo's more cartoony fare.



Pemalite said:
Mnementh said:

Yeah, normally I would agree. But then - we have semiconductor shortages. The amount of units that can be produced is limited. If they cannot increase the number of produced units, they can increase the revenue. But price increase is usually not very popular. But a new more expensive model and phasing out the old one... that works.

Whilst Nintendo to a degree is affected by semiconductor shortages (Mostly to the DRAM and other chips), the SoC is built on a 14nm TSMC process, which isn't class-leading.
There just isn't as much in the way of congestion compared to say... TSMC 7nm which would have to fight between AMD's Radeon, Ryzen, Microsoft Xbox Series X/S, Sony Playstation 5, Apple A12, Kirin 990/980, Qualcomm Snapdragon, Intel, Mediatek and a shit ton more...

We are at that point where Phones/Tablets get priority over a gaming console.

Nintendo is in a very enviable position in the manufacturing scheme of things, this is one of the very few instances of having conservative hardware is going to be a benefit rather than a detriment.

This is off-topic, but I just wanted to ask your opinion on something since you are very knowledgeable regarding tech.  Do you think the Intellivision Amico delay is as affected by the chip shortage as is being stated, or do you think that it is a convenient excuse being used for a console that is just way behind in development?