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Forums - Gaming - How important is 60fps to you?

 

What do you think?

Anything less is unacceptable 20 16.26%
 
It's very important 40 32.52%
 
It's nice, but 30fps is still fine 44 35.77%
 
It's not important 19 15.45%
 
Total:123
Chazore said:

And what about those games that run perfectly at 60?, where's that advantage then?.

It feels a lot like a weird advantage to have, having a game locked at 30fps vs 60fps and above.

I have played games for decades, and I do not see 30fps feeling better than 60 and above, not in any subjective or objective sense (the latter I'm sensing from you).

I might be misunderstanding you a bit, but I agree that no developer would axe their game's framerate from 60 fps to 30 fps just to have it at 30.  You cut the framerate if you want to boost the resolution or turn up the visuals of the game.  The more pixels/effects you have on the screen the longer it takes to render a frame and so the fps goes down, often times, almost proportionally to the increases in resolution and graphics effects.  In the case of a racing game where 60 fps is really not needed and there are not a lot of framerate dips, this trade-off could make a lot of sense because realism sells.  It makes less sense in a game like Smash Bros where, because of the competitive aspect of the game, 60 fps is basically essential.

A game that runs perfectly at 60 without sacrifices is probably going to not have the greatest graphics which on the PS5 or XSX is going to be a problem.  Nintendo cares a lot less about graphics in recent generations which is why their games are so buttery smooth.  That said, if you go back to the N64 days this wasn't the case.  I just wanted to express my admiration for Nintendo and just how well they were able to make games feel comfortable at framerates that today we would consider completely unplayable.



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JackHandy said:

As someone who almost exclusively plays retro games on a CRT, I voted not at all. I didn't even know what a "frame" was back when I was playing games as a kid. No one I knew did, either. The magazines didn't mention it. The developers didn't mention it. The console manufactures didn't mention it. It was of absolute zero importance to pretty much anyone... at least publicly, and on the console side of things (I don't have much experience with PC, so I don't know if PC gamers cared or not). So when I see frames per second being used as a be-all-end-all sort of thing now, I just can't relate because it doesn't matter to me.

Same here, I miss CRTs. I still have one in the basement with ps2 and wii connected and each time I turn it on, I marvel at the vibrant colors. I do use component video cables though, composite video is one step too far back for me. The color bleeding of composite video can go, and progressive scan is much nicer as well.

On PC we didn't care about fps either, at least I didn't. Wolfenstein 3D ran at, I don't know. Doom in a small window to have it run at all and it was fantastic. Descent the same. I actually played Descent with Nvidea shutter glasses on a CRT projector, 320x240 resolution, 60hz, thus 30 frames per eye, it was magical (back in '98) It wasn't perfect (no 3D hud) but since it was CRT, no latency, no hoops to sync the glasses, it just worked. I have no idea what FPS the game actually animated at, it didn't matter.

All this stuff nowadays, HDR, DSR, 120hz, it's all trying to get back to what we already had with CRT. Input resolution was never a problem with CRT, more or less scan points, it interpolated automatically, physics at work. Monitors were rated in max scan frequency Khz and Dpi. A much nicer system than the fixed pixel grids we have now.

The one big problem with CRT projectors is blooming. It could create some horrible horizontal stretching in bright areas. Physics at work, but with current tech that should not be difficult to correct on the fly. My projector had a grid of 16 potentiometers per lamp and it took monthly fiddling to keep Red Blue and Green matched up perfectly. A smart algorithm should be able to do that on the fly, adjust the settings for each frame / scan line to prevent blooming.

Of course the one big advantage of modern tvs is, you can actually carry them yourself. My 34" CRT is never coming out of the basement again!



SvennoJ said:
JackHandy said:

As someone who almost exclusively plays retro games on a CRT, I voted not at all. I didn't even know what a "frame" was back when I was playing games as a kid. No one I knew did, either. The magazines didn't mention it. The developers didn't mention it. The console manufactures didn't mention it. It was of absolute zero importance to pretty much anyone... at least publicly, and on the console side of things (I don't have much experience with PC, so I don't know if PC gamers cared or not). So when I see frames per second being used as a be-all-end-all sort of thing now, I just can't relate because it doesn't matter to me.

Same here, I miss CRTs. I still have one in the basement with ps2 and wii connected and each time I turn it on, I marvel at the vibrant colors. I do use component video cables though, composite video is one step too far back for me. The color bleeding of composite video can go, and progressive scan is much nicer as well.

On PC we didn't care about fps either, at least I didn't. Wolfenstein 3D ran at, I don't know. Doom in a small window to have it run at all and it was fantastic. Descent the same. I actually played Descent with Nvidea shutter glasses on a CRT projector, 320x240 resolution, 60hz, thus 30 frames per eye, it was magical (back in '98) It wasn't perfect (no 3D hud) but since it was CRT, no latency, no hoops to sync the glasses, it just worked. I have no idea what FPS the game actually animated at, it didn't matter.

All this stuff nowadays, HDR, DSR, 120hz, it's all trying to get back to what we already had with CRT. Input resolution was never a problem with CRT, more or less scan points, it interpolated automatically, physics at work. Monitors were rated in max scan frequency Khz and Dpi. A much nicer system than the fixed pixel grids we have now.

The one big problem with CRT projectors is blooming. It could create some horrible horizontal stretching in bright areas. Physics at work, but with current tech that should not be difficult to correct on the fly. My projector had a grid of 16 potentiometers per lamp and it took monthly fiddling to keep Red Blue and Green matched up perfectly. A smart algorithm should be able to do that on the fly, adjust the settings for each frame / scan line to prevent blooming.

Of course the one big advantage of modern tvs is, you can actually carry them yourself. My 34" CRT is never coming out of the basement again!

Yeah, CRTs are awesome, I actually picked one up from my grandmother when she moved houses late last year to play my retro consoles on, and I can't believe how amazing games like Donkey Kong Country still look and feel on these glorious old machines.

Sure, it's fucking massive and bulky by today's standards and takes up a lot of space, but its weird how in some ways display technology has actually gone backwards compared to twenty years ago.



SvennoJ said:
mZuzek said:

I have that GPU too and the game runs very well, are you running it on HD or SSD?

SSD but it's on a laptop. Predator Helios 300 i7-8750H (2.2ghz with boost up to 4ghz but quickly heats up with boost, have it disabled)

The game runs fine when just running around, but stutters in fights, very annoying.

* Disable Hyper-threading.
* Leave turbo enabled.
* Set Affinity to 4 CPU cores.

Ori's optimal core count is 4 cores, so your 6 core, 12 thread CPU is overkill from a CPU threading perspective, but the game loves clock-rate, which you have hampered.

By disabling Hyperthreading and setting the games affinity to 4 CPU cores, it will dump all the available TDP into Turbo to run those cores at it's highest possible rate.

Heat isn't going to reduce your systems longevity, heat is a natural by-product of all computer systems.

I assume you have variable refresh rate enabled?




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

This entire discussion is like being in a car forum where there will be people arguing that any car with less than 350 HP is an absolute danger to drive daily.



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curl-6 said:
SvennoJ said:

Same here, I miss CRTs. I still have one in the basement with ps2 and wii connected and each time I turn it on, I marvel at the vibrant colors. I do use component video cables though, composite video is one step too far back for me. The color bleeding of composite video can go, and progressive scan is much nicer as well.

On PC we didn't care about fps either, at least I didn't. Wolfenstein 3D ran at, I don't know. Doom in a small window to have it run at all and it was fantastic. Descent the same. I actually played Descent with Nvidea shutter glasses on a CRT projector, 320x240 resolution, 60hz, thus 30 frames per eye, it was magical (back in '98) It wasn't perfect (no 3D hud) but since it was CRT, no latency, no hoops to sync the glasses, it just worked. I have no idea what FPS the game actually animated at, it didn't matter.

All this stuff nowadays, HDR, DSR, 120hz, it's all trying to get back to what we already had with CRT. Input resolution was never a problem with CRT, more or less scan points, it interpolated automatically, physics at work. Monitors were rated in max scan frequency Khz and Dpi. A much nicer system than the fixed pixel grids we have now.

The one big problem with CRT projectors is blooming. It could create some horrible horizontal stretching in bright areas. Physics at work, but with current tech that should not be difficult to correct on the fly. My projector had a grid of 16 potentiometers per lamp and it took monthly fiddling to keep Red Blue and Green matched up perfectly. A smart algorithm should be able to do that on the fly, adjust the settings for each frame / scan line to prevent blooming.

Of course the one big advantage of modern tvs is, you can actually carry them yourself. My 34" CRT is never coming out of the basement again!

Yeah, CRTs are awesome, I actually picked one up from my grandmother when she moved houses late last year to play my retro consoles on, and I can't believe how amazing games like Donkey Kong Country still look and feel on these glorious old machines.

Sure, it's fucking massive and bulky by today's standards and takes up a lot of space, but its weird how in some ways display technology has actually gone backwards compared to twenty years ago.

The thing I notice right away when playing on a CRT is how there's almost-zero input lag. I was trying to play SMB3 on my 4K TV via the Switch one day and kept dying in ways that I never use to die when I was younger. Curious, I went downstairs, popped the actual cart into my actual NES, turned it on, grabbed my controller and within seconds, I was literally flying through that game on my CRT. It was crazy how much more accurate my button presses and timing was. It was as if I were some sort of cyborg ninja utilizing the full brunt of the force!

After that experience, I completely gave up trying to play anything retro on newer consoles (I own all three). From now on, if it's PS2 or older, it's on a CRT via an actual disc/cart. There's just no other way.



Spindel said:

This entire discussion is like being in a car forum where there will be people arguing that any car with less than 350 HP is an absolute danger to drive daily.

I like the joke, but it would be more like "being in a car forum where there will be people arguing that any car with less than 350 HP is not as pleasant to drive"



It's the bare minimum for me these days. I just got used to it and can't stand anything less anymore. Although I'm certain I can get used to 30 fps again, hell I played Starfox back in the days with like 10 fps or something. But as long as I don't need to, I won't play at anything less than 60 fps. I even start to imagine to see differences between 60 fps and 120 or 144 fps, lol.

Luckily I don't have high standard when it comes to graphical fidelity. So I will happily pull sliders to the left to get dem sweet fps. And I'm pretty certain I won't have to deal with anything less than 60 fps for quite some time with my RTX 3070. Wanted to get a 3080, but you know how it is right now, I'm happy I got anything at all.

The switch is the only console I play on right now and luckily most games I play on there are also 60 fps. My son played Descenders the other day with 30 fps. I couldn't stand it, but he seemed fine with it.

Long story short, I'm spoiled as fuck when it comes to fps. =P



唯一無二のRolStoppableに認められた、VGCの任天堂ファミリーの正式メンバーです。光栄に思います。

OdinHades said:

It's the bare minimum for me these days. I just got used to it and can't stand anything less anymore. Although I'm certain I can get used to 30 fps again, hell I played Starfox back in the days with like 10 fps or something. But as long as I don't need to, I won't play at anything less than 60 fps. I even start to imagine to see differences between 60 fps and 120 or 144 fps, lol.

Luckily I don't have high standard when it comes to graphical fidelity. So I will happily pull sliders to the left to get dem sweet fps. And I'm pretty certain I won't have to deal with anything less than 60 fps for quite some time with my RTX 3070. Wanted to get a 3080, but you know how it is right now, I'm happy I got anything at all.

The switch is the only console I play on right now and luckily most games I play on there are also 60 fps. My son played Descenders the other day with 30 fps. I couldn't stand it, but he seemed fine with it.

Long story short, I'm spoiled as fuck when it comes to fps. =P

This is why PC is my platform of choice, through multiple generations. I don't have to compromise, or at least not to such an extreme. Consoles have been compromising performance since the 5th gen. Whereas on PC, I can play and tinker to my liking. If I feel that FPS is lacking or not up to par, I can cut back on computationally expensive effects like shadows, AO, particles and volumetric fog for better performance while still looking great.

On consoles, you just have to take what you can get. Though that's slowly getting better, with a lot of games now with different settings for performance/fidelity.. which is definitely a good thing!

Last edited by hinch - on 26 May 2021

JackHandy said:
curl-6 said:

Yeah, CRTs are awesome, I actually picked one up from my grandmother when she moved houses late last year to play my retro consoles on, and I can't believe how amazing games like Donkey Kong Country still look and feel on these glorious old machines.

Sure, it's fucking massive and bulky by today's standards and takes up a lot of space, but its weird how in some ways display technology has actually gone backwards compared to twenty years ago.

The thing I notice right away when playing on a CRT is how there's almost-zero input lag. I was trying to play SMB3 on my 4K TV via the Switch one day and kept dying in ways that I never use to die when I was younger. Curious, I went downstairs, popped the actual cart into my actual NES, turned it on, grabbed my controller and within seconds, I was literally flying through that game on my CRT. It was crazy how much more accurate my button presses and timing was. It was as if I were some sort of cyborg ninja utilizing the full brunt of the force!

After that experience, I completely gave up trying to play anything retro on newer consoles (I own all three). From now on, if it's PS2 or older, it's on a CRT via an actual disc/cart. There's just no other way.

I had a very similar experience with the Donkey Kong Country games. Playing them on a HDTV I died all the time and wondered if I was just a worse gamer than I was when I was younger, but once I played them on a CRT again suddenly it felt instantaneously responsive like how I remembered it.

Looks a hell of a lot better than on a HDTV too.