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Forums - Gaming - What is your opinion on gaming subscription services?

 

My opinion is best summed up as:

Subscribed to at least one and like it 36 36.36%
 
Subscribed to at least one and not a fan 6 6.06%
 
Thinking about subscribing 6 6.06%
 
Was a subscriber and lapsed 4 4.04%
 
Will subscribe for big games and then drop 4 4.04%
 
Zero interest at all 28 28.28%
 
None of the current subs ... 8 8.08%
 
Other 7 7.07%
 
Total:99
Conina said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

I see you have made a circle labeled "Windows Ecosystem". Thankyou for admitting that the Windows OS is an ecosystem.

You are welcome. Have you also seen that "Microsoft's eco system" and "Windows eco system" are only overlapping each other?

The intersection is the Windows store. "Microsoft's eco system" only includes a part of the "Windows eco system". "Windows eco system" only includes a part of "Microsoft's eco system". 

Cerebralbore101 said:

1. Microsoft owns the Windows OS, therefore they own the ecosystem.

2. If MS owns the Windows ecosystem then it is a part of their ecosystem. 

3. Therefore assuming that a Microsoft Exec is talking about only their own ecosystem assumes that they are talking about the Windows ecosystem + Xbox. 

4. If we assume that they are talking about the Windows ecosystem then we assume they are talking about Steam, GoG, Uplay, etc, which is enveloped in the Windows OS ecosystem (as per your Venn diagram).

5. Microsoft was no way of tracking spending on Steam, GoG, Uplay, etc. (Outside of their own games that are available for purchase on those stores of course.)

So again, even if we make this incorrect assumption that Bond was only talking about MS' own ecosystem, their claim to know that Gamepass users spend more overall, (within their own ecosystem) is not supported by their deeply flawed dataset. 

No, of course you only saw what you wanted to see and ignored all the rest.

Of course, I saw that you drew that diagram in such a way that Microsoft's ecosystem only overlapps a part of the Windows ecosystem. Hence why I gave you an argument to refute what you claimed via your Venn Diagram. The argument was as follows...

1. Microsoft owns the Windows OS, therefore they own the ecosystem.

2. If MS owns the Windows ecosystem then it is a part of their ecosystem.



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I love it, well at least the Game Pass model. Thanks to it I can try new games without having to dish out cash for something I may not like. Plus I play very casually which makes me happy having that level of diversity available for me.



SvennoJ said:
Ryuu96 said:

Microsoft never claimed to have all of the data of every single person's purchasing habits on every single device, nobody would believe they have that data, they aren't speculating on limited data, they're posting facts about their own ecosystem, folk in the Xbox ecosystem spend and play more via Game Pass, they have the only relevant data needed, data from their own ecosystem.

It's not incomplete data, that's just...they're talking about their own ecosystem dude. If Sony talks about their ecosystem do they also need to know all of Xbox's financials to be allowed to do so? No, they don't give a shit, they aren't making money off Xbox players

Why are you talking about entirely different countries? a good comparison would be a country talking about something specific to only it, which benefits its own citizens and causes them to try/spend more over a traditional method.

More to the point, how the heck is Microsoft meant to make data for it unless Game Pass is also on Playstation, Nintendo?

"According to MS, GP subs spend 20% more time playing games, play 30% more games, 40% more genres, and spend around 20% more on gaming overall than users who aren't subbed to the service."

How will they know all these stats, what stats will they be using? There's no Game Pass on these consoles to say folk play more games, more genres, spend more than those who aren't subbed to the service, what service? It doesn't exist there So of course they are talking about their ecosystem and everyone knows that when they mention those numbers, they still tell us something, that Xbox players spend more, play more, try more games via Game Pass.

All those stats say is that those that spend more time playing games, play more games and spend more on games, are more likely to subscribe to gamepass. Which makes perfect sense. As a metric on the effect of game pass, it says nothing. For all we know they could be spending less than before subscribing to gamepass, just on average still more than those that don't subscribe.

JWeinCom said:

Hate to break it to you, but however you're buying games, the deck is stacked against small developers. Retail is way worse in that regard than subscription services, because you have to physically manufacture them, ship them out, and convince retailers to stock them. And if you're making a smaller kind of game that you can't charge full price for, your margins become razor thin once those costs come into play. There is a reason that most indie games do not have a physical version at all, and if they do, it usually only comes after the digital version has launched successfully. And there's a reason why indie games really weren't even a thing until gaming went digital. So, if that's your argument for why subscription services are a bad thing, then it's not very strong. 

If the term true gamer sucks, then why not use the term collector, since that's what we're talking about. And like with Runa, if you like collecting games then, yeah, you probably shouldn't get gamepass. But that's just personal preference. If subscription services become the predominate form of gaming and physical games go byebye, then that just means not enough people care about collecting. That's just the way the world works. A lot of things I like aren't made anymore because they just weren't popular enough to be profitable. That's a bad thing for you, but not necessarily a bad thing for the industry. 

I said it many many years ago, the shift to digital is a slippery slope, and now with the rise of subscription services we're halfway down the slide. Digital was/is great for indies, however they also devalued the A game developers who have pretty much all disappeared, closed down. It's either blockbuster or low budget nowadays. And while there certainly are many gems among indie games, there is also a ton of half baked ideas.

But yep, for collectors that like complete games, times are getting tougher. Whether it's a bad thing for the industry, depends where you are in the industry. It's not a great place to be to begin with. What effect the loss of retail will have, I don't know. When I worked as a developer it was extremely satisfying to see the stuff I worked on on store shelves, all over the world. Very rewarding. Engagement numbers, not so much. It was also a real break, finished product launched, pause and recoup. I'm glad I'm out of the industry as nowadays there are no more breaks. Code to release day on the day one patch, then straight on to the next update. Anyway that's up to the people working in the industry.

Subscriptions are simply not for me. Not a problem I guess as I have plenty to keep me entertained. Today my youngest dug out the WiiU to play Super Mario 3D world. Still great.




Slippery slope is the argument people give when they can't actually find an actual problem with something. 

All the save batteries on my GBA games are dead, and my Wii Sports disc takes like five tries to work. Anecdotal evidence goes both ways.



JWeinCom said:

Slippery slope is the argument people give when they can't actually find an actual problem with something. 

All the save batteries on my GBA games are dead, and my Wii Sports disc takes like five tries to work. Anecdotal evidence goes both ways.

What do you call it when you're halfway down the slope? That physical is shrinking and ownership is eroding is fact by now. That's the actual problem I have with the move to digital in general and subscription services in particular (where you're left with nothing when you stop subscribing)

I lost a whole bunch of digital games due to HDD failure, bought directly from publishers, can't remember what and where from, just gone. More anecdotal evidence ;)



SvennoJ said:
JWeinCom said:

Slippery slope is the argument people give when they can't actually find an actual problem with something. 

All the save batteries on my GBA games are dead, and my Wii Sports disc takes like five tries to work. Anecdotal evidence goes both ways.

What do you call it when you're halfway down the slope? That physical is shrinking and ownership is eroding is fact by now. That's the actual problem I have with the move to digital in general and subscription services in particular (where you're left with nothing when you stop subscribing)

I lost a whole bunch of digital games due to HDD failure, bought directly from publishers, can't remember what and where from, just gone. More anecdotal evidence ;)

You've yet to spell out the problem aside from your personal taste for collecting, and your personal issues. I lost a bunch of games while moving once, doesn't mean there's a problem with physical games. 



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JWeinCom said:
SvennoJ said:

What do you call it when you're halfway down the slope? That physical is shrinking and ownership is eroding is fact by now. That's the actual problem I have with the move to digital in general and subscription services in particular (where you're left with nothing when you stop subscribing)

I lost a whole bunch of digital games due to HDD failure, bought directly from publishers, can't remember what and where from, just gone. More anecdotal evidence ;)

You've yet to spell out the problem aside from your personal taste for collecting, and your personal issues. I lost a bunch of games while moving once, doesn't mean there's a problem with physical games. 

The problem is physical is declining, harder to get, more expensive to get, less extras if any left at all. It all started with digital games being introduced, and subscriptions services are only accelerating the trend.



SvennoJ said:
JWeinCom said:

You've yet to spell out the problem aside from your personal taste for collecting, and your personal issues. I lost a bunch of games while moving once, doesn't mean there's a problem with physical games. 

The problem is physical is declining, harder to get, more expensive to get, less extras if any left at all. It all started with digital games being introduced, and subscriptions services are only accelerating the trend.

Yes... but that's only a problem because of your preference for physical games.

Cars killed the horse industry, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, unless you really liked horses.



mZuzek said:
JWeinCom said:

Cars killed the horse industry, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, unless you really liked riding horses for transportation.

If you really liked horses, you'd be happy their "industry" died.

Better?



mZuzek said:
JWeinCom said:

Better?

How about "unless you like to exploit animals"?

Eh... whatever..? Horses and buggies are simply the classic example of an industry that was killed by advances in technology. I have no horse in this race. Errrr... I mean I have no dog in this fight. I mean damn it... I don't have a snake in this plane?



JWeinCom said:
SvennoJ said:

The problem is physical is declining, harder to get, more expensive to get, less extras if any left at all. It all started with digital games being introduced, and subscriptions services are only accelerating the trend.

Yes... but that's only a problem because of your preference for physical games.

Cars killed the horse industry, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, unless you really liked horses.

I also have a preference for complete games day 1 instead of piecemeal delivery and no fundamentals changing over time.

But I see you simply chalk it up as 'progress'. Mobile games did not kill the console games industry btw, although they still might with streaming coming around as well. And whether it's not a problem, how come so many people prefer older gens over previous gen. Subscription services are a continuation of the decline in output imo.