No, but judging people who can't is sitting on a high horse (think they mixed the metaphors a bit). 

My dad has season football tickets to the Jets. So I get to be a true Jets fan, or at least he does. Not everyone can afford that. To say they aren't true fans or supporters is kind of elitist.

As for how dumping money into a subscription helps, the same way for any other service. People aren't putting their games on Gamepass/PSNow for free. Microsoft/Sony are paying them. It is possible that they have incentives based on number of downloads/playtime. But regardless, Microsoft knows how many downloads they have, and likely have a rough idea of how much the game is played, information which I can almost guarantee would be shared with publishers. So, if tons of people are playing Nier Automata on Gamepass, Microsoft will want Replicant on their service, and Square would be in a position to bargain for a higher price. 

This isn't like... some strange and new thing. This is a similar business model as Cable TV. If Microsoft knows why people are signing up for Gamepass, the folks responsible can get more money. Don't know the exact details, but if you can't see how a dev can possibly benefit from Gamepass/PSNow, that's either a failure of imagination, or a dogmatic attempt to justify disliking something that you dislike for completely different reasons.

The tone of this is getting way too hostile. Time to end this conversation.

Game subscriptions are simply game demo/trials with a monthly cost. That's really all they are, since you don't own the game, can't keep it, and don't get to chose which games are on the service.

The reason I said you're not a 'true' gamer if you use them is because...well, it was a poor choice of words. I've never been the gatekeeping type. what I was trying to get at was that it's hard to call yourself a serious gamer if you don't own any games. Everyone who plays games is a gamer, but there are clearly different levels of dedication from the casual to the hardcore, and while there's no absolute formula to decide which is which, I think we can all agree that people who don't buy/own games or keep their games are on the casual end of the spectrum.

Again, doesn't make anyone a real or fake gamer, it doesn't mean your choices are any less valid, but you can't deny you're on the more casual side of the spectrum if you do most of your gaming on a game subscription service instead of on games you've bought. This is not a negative thing, even though some people will see it as an insult, but that's how I see it.

And yes, there are other factors. Factors like how big your TV is, how expensive your PC rig is, how many hours you put in, how many games/genres you play, how you buy your games (Digital vs physical), participation in conventions/cosplay, how many games/consoles you have, if you play professionally/stream, collect paraphernalia, etc. There are so, SO many factors at play that tend to tilt you more towards hardcore or casual, and I'd argue that getting your games through gamepass or PSNow or any other subscription model like that definitely tilts you more towards casual.

And I can't reiterate enough, this doesn't make you less of a gamer, nor does it mean you're having less fun than hardcore gamers (Seriously, in my experience, I find hardcore gamers to be more insufferable than filthy casuals, but that's just me.)

And of course different people have different criteria for how they perceive it in general. I personally feel you're more on the hardcore/serious side if you play a wider variety of games and genres, but it could EASILY be argued that the most hardcore of us ONLY play LoL or Starcraft or whatever. My point is, that's my opinion. And this is a subjective discussion so it is a matter of opinion. I personally feel that subs make you more casual. Buying makes you more serious. You might feel different. I promise not everything is meant as a jab or an insult, I literally chose one wrong word (True rather than serious/hardcore). Replace my instance of 'true gamer' with 'hardcore gamer' and then you'll probably see it wasn't meant as an insult or derogatory at all.

I'm not going to quibble over terminology, but if a demo has all of the non-dlc content of a game and the trial period is at least a month, that's a good fucking demo that I'm fine with paying for. I used to pay five bucks to rent a game from blockbuster for like 3 nights.

You don't get to keep it, but you don't always want to. Perfect example is Day of the Tentacle. Great point and click adventure, but it lasts like 5 hours, and once you know all the puzzle answers there's really no replay value unless you wait long enough to forget them.

So, call it a demo, but my demo of Day of the Tentacle had just as much value to me as if I'd actually purchased the game. I lose out on the ability to replay it ten years in the future, but considering it cost me like a buck (I played for about 2 days of a month of Gamepass), I'm fine with that sacrifice. If I really have the urge to play it in the future, I can buy it then. 

Doesn't always work that way. Probably would have been better off purchasing Tales of Vesperia (forgot how long that game was), but a lot of the times it makes more sense.

Not sure how any of this gets into casual/hardcore. Goes more into how much you replay old games/value having something.

I was moreso referring to the collection aspect of it, since that was in the same sentence. My experience is that I have shelves and shelves of games, a game room, all my old consoles hooked up, 100+ amiibos, entire shelves dedicated to special edition boxes, etc. My game COLLECTING is pretty serious and by my definition that puts me heavily into the hardcore side of the spectrum even if my gameplay styles (Slow, over time, usually not getting 100%, replaying old games and playing new games but never mastering anything) paint me as more casual. 

I fully admit I did a poor job explaining my stance here. Not sure if I was just tired or stupid or burnt out or what. All I know is that, as I said in my first post in this thread, Game Subscription models don't really gel with any of my personal values in gaming, and one of those reasons is that you don't own your content, which in my view lessens the value of the games themselves and thus devalues your collection. 

It was like when I first downloaded a rom pack of SNES roms way back in like 2007 or something. I was taken aback at almost 800 SNES games in a single package for less than 1 GB. By suddenly having hundreds of games, I was overwhelmed with choice and didn't play any of them.  By going from the 30ish games I actually had on my SNES to 790 games digitally...I still didn't play any of the games in the package. Because I didn't own them, and I didn't put value into them, I didn't get any value out of them. Despite knowing that games like Chrono Trigger and Super Metroid are all-time greats, I still didn't play them because it felt wrong. because I didn't own them. 

IT's similar with games services. IT doesn't feel right to play a game I don't own. it devalues the game in my eyes. it actively takes away from my desire to play the games if I don't own them - be it digitally or physically - and as such no game on these services interests me. 

If I ever got GamePass or Now, I'd literally use it as a demo to try before I buy, and I'd only ever play games I actually owned. So what's the point? Download a free demo, watch youtube, or whatever. Or take a risk. a huge part of gaming to me is discovering new games based on gameplay footage or reviews or listening to what people I trust say. I often literally just buy games to support the devs, or for versatility. I have Final Fantasy X on PS2, PS3, PS4, Vita, Switch, and PC, plus I have digital versions of these games on PS4 and Switch as well, so I have 8 copies of the same game...because I value it a lot. Like I said, cost is not an issue, but now I can play one of my favourite games no matter where I go and what I do or what room of the house I'm in, and while I realize that's rather silly, it's just how my brain works when it comes to ownership and collecting. 

So yeah, I avoid subscriptions because it devalues my collection, and that would make me feel less serious about my passion. That would hurt my feelings. 

If you like collecting games, obviously digital subscriptions aren't for you. If that's your point then I don't think anyone would disagree.

Exactly? Like, isn't the thread title and topic 'what is your opinion on gaming subscription services'? Like, isn't this exactly the thread to discuss pros, cons, what you value vs what you don't, and why those things matter? 

Sure thing. I had some issues with the language that was used before, but now that its been clarified, I just don't have much to say.

I'm just looking at parallels with the music, movie and tv industry. Spotify doesn't reward artists based on how much their music is streamed. Plus there have been complaints from indie developers that they don't get a fair share from games with gold / ps+ either. Just as with music, it's great for the popular guys, the ones MS/Sony will want to keep. The rest don't really have any leg to stand on when people have plenty to play through subscription services.

My own experience with TV and movies has only declined since streaming became popular. It seems every show I like gets cancelled sooner rather than later, I guess my tastes are bad lol. Or gets poached by a competing service ugh. Extras for movies are declining since they aren't on streaming services anyway.

The other thing is, MS is subsidizing the subscription service atm, who knows what the developer reward scheme will be once the users are locked in. It's a walled garden inside a walled garden. There's always PC anyway, just sucks that collecting physical games is pretty much gone from PC.

And that's what I meant with 'true gamer' (term sucks I agree). It's not the amount you pay, but to me collecting is part of it. And collecting digital / subscription services, nah. The second hand market was great for collecting games, sad to see it going away. Tbh I jumped on buying Returnal because of it having a physical edition. If it was only available digitally I would never have bought it before getting the hardware to run it on. I've bought a lot of physical editions of games I already had digitally, after they finally released a physical edition.

To sum up, to me, game subscription services are a continuation of the erosion of ownership, furthering the decline of physical games and continuation of the move to episodic content, dlc, mtx.

Now appearently being able to play through the entire game and its DLC is just a "demo/trial" if it is played on a sub service.

I think this thread has officially hit rock bottom.