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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Being a gamer is really hard around here...

mZuzek said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Why? What would it even be based on, 40 hour weeks?

If that is the case though, wow, that's crazy! You'd have to work 40? hours a week for 10 years just to buy a graphics card? :O

R$1100 is the minimum monthly wage for a full-time job.

I don't know how things are over there where you live Kapi, but it's quite obvious that whatever minimum wage is there, it's not what most people make on a full-time job. In Brazil, most jobs tread near the minimum wage level, for a supposed 40-hour work week (they often go well above 40 hours).

Why would you have a monthly minimum wage though? That's just weird. Especially if it's based on 40 hour weeks. In my experience anywhere from 35-40 hour weeks are all just as likely for full time workers.

I was using the hourly minimum wage, so to compare that to Brazil's (based on a 40 hour week), the RTX 3070 would be 0.9x monthly wages compared to Brazil's 10x while the PS5 would be 0.3x monthly wages compared to Brazil's 9x.

Ouch! Yep, y'all are getting screwed. Those prices are crazy high.



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Comparing GPU prices to minimum wages is a bizarre way to show what you're trying to show. (For a start, median income (according to IMF) in Brazil is around 2,500 BRL/month).

Think of the problem like this: BRs overall price level is 2.256 (IMF) times cheaper than the united states for an equivalent bundle of goods. So if we were to construct an index of what GPU prices would feel like in the United States, you can't take the exchange rate of $1:5.5R$ as given; you'd have to divide through by 2.256.

1,101.06 R$ * 2.25~ / 5.5 $/R$ = $452 USD. You should think of this as the value of the goods at US prices that a Brazilian has to give up to buy a 750ti. A 3070 is $4330 USD when thought of in this way. Factor in scalper prices, which see 3070's selling at an average of $920.

So now you can say properly that the same gamer (same income, preferences, utility function for other goods) would face over 4x higher prices if she/he were in Brazil.

That sucks!






Ka-pi96 said:
mZuzek said:

R$1100 is the minimum monthly wage for a full-time job.

I don't know how things are over there where you live Kapi, but it's quite obvious that whatever minimum wage is there, it's not what most people make on a full-time job. In Brazil, most jobs tread near the minimum wage level, for a supposed 40-hour work week (they often go well above 40 hours).

Why would you have a monthly minimum wage though? That's just weird. Especially if it's based on 40 hour weeks. In my experience anywhere from 35-40 hour weeks are all just as likely for full time workers.

I was using the hourly minimum wage, so to compare that to Brazil's (based on a 40 hour week), the RTX 3070 would be 0.9x monthly wages compared to Brazil's 10x while the PS5 would be 0.3x monthly wages compared to Brazil's 9x.

Ouch! Yep, y'all are getting screwed. Those prices are crazy high.

Because almost all of us receive paychecks once a month, as the month is the metric used by the government for companies to declare and retain work related taxes. And Brazil is ruled by taxes.

The law here allows up to 48 hours of work each week tho, before it being considered an extra work hour and the company needing to pay the worker and the government and extra for it aside from what its work class/contract says it should pay.

40 hours a week is a very common ammount but many places do 44 or more too (my past job was 46 hours a week).

If you want to have a good understanding of what it does represent, the Switch, Series X and PS5 at their normal prices would be around 2.8x, 4.2x and 4.3x the monthly mininum wage (yes the PS5 is a bit more expensive here).

Right now you can double those Series X and PS5 amounts tho. So if someone wants a PS5 right now and receives the minimum wage they would need to save their money for 9 months without buying food or paying any bills/rent or taxes to have enough to get one.



BraLoD said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Why would you have a monthly minimum wage though? That's just weird. Especially if it's based on 40 hour weeks. In my experience anywhere from 35-40 hour weeks are all just as likely for full time workers.

I was using the hourly minimum wage, so to compare that to Brazil's (based on a 40 hour week), the RTX 3070 would be 0.9x monthly wages compared to Brazil's 10x while the PS5 would be 0.3x monthly wages compared to Brazil's 9x.

Ouch! Yep, y'all are getting screwed. Those prices are crazy high.

Because almost all of us receive paychecks once a month, as the month is the metric used by the government for companies to declare and retain work related taxes. And Brazil is ruled by taxes.

The law here allows up to 48 hours of work each week tho, before it being considered an extra work hour and the company needing to pay the worker and the government and extra for it aside from what its work class/contract says it should pay.

40 hours a week is a very common ammount but many places do 44 or more too (my past job was 46 hours a week).

If you want to have a good understanding of what it does represent, the Switch, Series X and PS5 at their normal prices would be around 2.8x, 4.2x and 4.3x the monthly mininum wage (yes the PS5 is a bit more expensive here).

Right now you can double those Series X and PS5 amounts tho. So if someone wants a PS5 right now and receives the minimum wage they would need to save their money for 9 months without buying food or paying any bills/rent or taxes to have enough to get one.

People in most countries get paycheques once a month, hourly minimum wages still make more sense though. Lots of people work different hours, especially with part time jobs.

So people working 40 or 48 hours who are on minimum wage get paid the same amount? That's... stupid! If you're working 8 hours more than that other person then you should be getting more money than them.

But also, what about part time workers? If somebody only does say 20 hours a week, do they still get the monthly minimum wage?



Ka-pi96 said:
BraLoD said:

Because almost all of us receive paychecks once a month, as the month is the metric used by the government for companies to declare and retain work related taxes. And Brazil is ruled by taxes.

The law here allows up to 48 hours of work each week tho, before it being considered an extra work hour and the company needing to pay the worker and the government and extra for it aside from what its work class/contract says it should pay.

40 hours a week is a very common ammount but many places do 44 or more too (my past job was 46 hours a week).

If you want to have a good understanding of what it does represent, the Switch, Series X and PS5 at their normal prices would be around 2.8x, 4.2x and 4.3x the monthly mininum wage (yes the PS5 is a bit more expensive here).

Right now you can double those Series X and PS5 amounts tho. So if someone wants a PS5 right now and receives the minimum wage they would need to save their money for 9 months without buying food or paying any bills/rent or taxes to have enough to get one.

People in most countries get paycheques once a month, hourly minimum wages still make more sense though. Lots of people work different hours, especially with part time jobs.

So people working 40 or 48 hours who are on minimum wage get paid the same amount? That's... stupid! If you're working 8 hours more than that other person then you should be getting more money than them.

But also, what about part time workers? If somebody only does say 20 hours a week, do they still get the monthly minimum wage?

Technically speaking, if two workers get the same wage to work different hours the only who works the less have a higher hourly wage. It's just a... different reasoning I guess 

What you are talking about is called partial time job and can't exceed 30 working hours a week. This system doesn't allow overtime if you work more than 26 hours a week and is overall uncommon (not all unions allow this hiring system)

The legal minimum wage is thus defined for a working month of 220 hours and 30 days. Hence with a 1100 BRL minimum wage you get effectively 5 BRL each hour

In  partial job system someone working only 20 hours a week you get a wage proportional to your working hours, using a 30 days month X 4 hours a day X  5 BRL per hour so you get a 600 BRL wage



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Yeah, GPU prices are through the roof right now thanks to silicon shortages and miners. Here in the US right now all of the newer GPU's are sold out, and 2 generation old low range GPU's are selling for more than twice what they cost brand new on release 5 years ago, that is how bad it is. Just saw an RX 550 that was $80 at release selling for $220, and a 1050 ti that was $140 at release selling for $400. 

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 21 March 2021

IcaroRibeiro said:
Ka-pi96 said:

People in most countries get paycheques once a month, hourly minimum wages still make more sense though. Lots of people work different hours, especially with part time jobs.

So people working 40 or 48 hours who are on minimum wage get paid the same amount? That's... stupid! If you're working 8 hours more than that other person then you should be getting more money than them.

But also, what about part time workers? If somebody only does say 20 hours a week, do they still get the monthly minimum wage?

Technically speaking, if two workers get the same wage to work different hours the only who works the less have a higher hourly wage. It's just a... different reasoning I guess 

What you are talking about is called partial time job and can't exceed 30 working hours a week. This system doesn't allow overtime if you work more than 26 hours a week and is overall uncommon (not all unions allow this hiring system)

The legal minimum wage is thus defined for a working month of 220 hours and 30 days. Hence with a 1100 BRL minimum wage you get effectively 5 BRL each hour

In  partial job system someone working only 20 hours a week you get a wage proportional to your working hours, using a 30 days month X 4 hours a day X  5 BRL per hour so you get a 600 BRL wage

Yeah so the one working more just gets screwed over with unpaid overtime. If a European employer tried to make their employees work an extra 8 hours a week for free then they'd get sued so fast!

Why not just have a 5BRL per hour minimum wage? Seems like it would be more fair for everybody.



Ka-pi96 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Technically speaking, if two workers get the same wage to work different hours the only who works the less have a higher hourly wage. It's just a... different reasoning I guess 

What you are talking about is called partial time job and can't exceed 30 working hours a week. This system doesn't allow overtime if you work more than 26 hours a week and is overall uncommon (not all unions allow this hiring system)

The legal minimum wage is thus defined for a working month of 220 hours and 30 days. Hence with a 1100 BRL minimum wage you get effectively 5 BRL each hour

In  partial job system someone working only 20 hours a week you get a wage proportional to your working hours, using a 30 days month X 4 hours a day X  5 BRL per hour so you get a 600 BRL wage

Yeah so the one working more just gets screwed over with unpaid overtime. If a European employer tried to make their employees work an extra 8 hours a week for free then they'd get sued so fast!

Why not just have a 5BRL per hour minimum wage? Seems like it would be more fair for everybody.

Your reasoning is pointless. Neither are really getting any benefit from the system, and a 20 weekly hours job paying a MINIMUM WAGE isn't enough to make a living by any means and it's not an option for a common worker someone must be desperate to accept such therms despite getting a higher paid working hour. Besides, when a company needs someone working only 20 hours a week they are very likely to just sign in a temporary contract, common in retail stores during christmas season 

The ones who got permanent 20-30 weekly hours jobs are a minority in specific jobs that pay more, like for instance fireman. My uncle is a fireman and the nature of his job make him work for 26 hours a week if I'm not mistaken. Those jobs that pays above minimum wage don't really need to pay a higher working hour for a part-time worker than they do with a full-time worker 



IcaroRibeiro said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Yeah so the one working more just gets screwed over with unpaid overtime. If a European employer tried to make their employees work an extra 8 hours a week for free then they'd get sued so fast!

Why not just have a 5BRL per hour minimum wage? Seems like it would be more fair for everybody.

Your reasoning is pointless. Neither are really getting any benefit from the system, and a 20 weekly hours job paying a MINIMUM WAGE isn't enough to make a living by any means and it's not an option for a common worker someone must be desperate to accept such therms despite getting a higher paid working hour. Besides, when a company needs someone working only 20 hours a week they are very likely to just sign in a temporary contract, common in retail stores during christmas season 

The ones who got permanent 20-30 weekly hours jobs are a minority in specific jobs that pay more, like for instance fireman. My uncle is a fireman and the nature of his job make him work for 26 hours a week if I'm not mistaken. Those jobs that pays above minimum wage don't really need to pay a higher working hour for a part-time worker than they do with a full-time worker 

My reasoning that people shouldn't work extra for free, but should actually be paid for the hours they work? Sure, whatever, if you don't mind working 48 hours and only getting paid for 40 that's up to you. I personally would never accept that in a million years though. That's the kind of thing we'd go on strike over in Europe.

Part time minimum wage jobs aren't for making a living solely off of that. They're for either students, who can only work part time because they're busy with school still, or parents where one works full time but they'd like some extra money so the other one does a part time job while the kid's at school or something. Or I guess also for retired people who'd like a bit more money on top of their pensions, my grandparents kept working part time for a good few years after retirement in order to afford holidays and things.



 

Ka-pi96 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Your reasoning is pointless. Neither are really getting any benefit from the system, and a 20 weekly hours job paying a MINIMUM WAGE isn't enough to make a living by any means and it's not an option for a common worker someone must be desperate to accept such therms despite getting a higher paid working hour. Besides, when a company needs someone working only 20 hours a week they are very likely to just sign in a temporary contract, common in retail stores during christmas season 

The ones who got permanent 20-30 weekly hours jobs are a minority in specific jobs that pay more, like for instance fireman. My uncle is a fireman and the nature of his job make him work for 26 hours a week if I'm not mistaken. Those jobs that pays above minimum wage don't really need to pay a higher working hour for a part-time worker than they do with a full-time worker 

My reasoning that people shouldn't work extra for free, but should actually be paid for the hours they work? Sure, whatever, if you don't mind working 48 hours and only getting paid for 40 that's up to you. I personally would never accept that in a million years though. That's the kind of thing we'd go on strike over in Europe.

Part time minimum wage jobs aren't for making a living solely off of that. They're for either students, who can only work part time because they're busy with school still, or parents where one works full time but they'd like some extra money so the other one does a part time job while the kid's at school or something. Or I guess also for retired people who'd like a bit more money on top of their pensions, my grandparents kept working part time for a good few years after retirement in order to afford holidays and things.

48 weekly hours are illegal, the limit are 44. People who works 48 hours every week can sue their employers, they won't because it's just the status quo and they are likely no getting a easy time finding another job 

And I'm a software developer. I'm used to 48 weekly working hours or even 60 weekly hours in crunching period and yes it's illegal to make more than 10 hours a week or more than 36 hours a month, but you know shit happens, the companies that don't crunch their employees often are smaller and with less long-range opportunities. My current one at least pays for the overtime, unlike my last one