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Forums - Politics Discussion - The Political Spectrum quiz

AsGryffynn said:

Whoa, I wouldn't have pegged you for a neo interventionist Shika XD 

Well, if anything... this goes to show it's perfectly possible for a far lefty like me to be good friends with someone who's standard Republican right wing. Again, no offense intended either. 

I also feel I need to add: I highlighted that I believe in strong gun ownership, showing decorum to elders (not deferring to them, but if you want to disagree, don't show them your rowdy side. Show them you're better and more of a moral example than they are), am virulently anti-censorship (no, banning DJT from FB and Twitter will just take his shoutbox to Parler and then people won't know where these rioters assemble, and also believe abortion shouldn't be available on request but should be available widely and de-stigmatized (as in, treat it like any other medical condition and refuse to let politics into it) and also believe in patriotism - I just don't believe boots on the ground everywhere and "my country right or wrong" is a healthy form of displaying love for your country compared to foreign aid, assembling a multinational team of astronauts for Mars (led by your country) and trying to show dictators and strongmen you're so much nobler than them you aren't going to give them the cold shoulder, but you don't expect to agree with them. 

How did you block the politics thread Shika? 

Thanks for this. Yeah, I think despite all differences in the politics and even if we are on contrarian positions sometimes, it is important to talk to each other instead of shouting down differing opinions.

For the Filter: Open the Forum-menu on the top and choose 'My topics'. There you have a 'Show Filters' button on the top left, which opens a bunch of checkboxes. Don't forget to save after changing the settings.



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Machina said:

Culture war I don't think it's got my position quite right really. It depends on the specific issue in question, but I find myself more aligned with cultural conservatives in general despite being - or perhaps because I am - very socially liberal. Free speech is vital, identity politics is cancer for society, and the left has become very illiberal. We in the UK seem to be intent on importing wholesale the worst parts of the American culture war, which is worrying and slightly depressing.

I feel very much the same way about this. I consider myself socially liberal/progressive, but the more and more the 'left' is getting dominated by extremely authoritarian and intollerant views. I completely support the classic "forget the old taboos, you can do what you want!" side of the left, but I have serious issues with the new "you can't say/do that anymore!" side. A while ago I read something about free speech being a 'conservative value', which I found very worrying.

I've also noticed that the most extreme ends of the political spectrum over here are very much inspired by their American examples and copy their rhetorics even when they barely make sense. Unsurprisingly, these people are also the ones that are most active on sites like Twitter where the echochamber-effect is so strong that nuance is barely allowed.



Flilix said:
Machina said:

Culture war I don't think it's got my position quite right really. It depends on the specific issue in question, but I find myself more aligned with cultural conservatives in general despite being - or perhaps because I am - very socially liberal. Free speech is vital, identity politics is cancer for society, and the left has become very illiberal. We in the UK seem to be intent on importing wholesale the worst parts of the American culture war, which is worrying and slightly depressing.

I feel very much the same way about this. I consider myself socially liberal/progressive, but the more and more the 'left' is getting dominated by extremely authoritarian and intollerant views. I completely support the classic "forget the old taboos, you can do what you want!" side of the left, but I have serious issues with the new "you can't say/do that anymore!" side. A while ago I read something about free speech being a 'conservative value', which I found very worrying.

I've also noticed that the most extreme ends of the political spectrum over here are very much inspired by their American examples and copy their rhetorics even when they barely make sense. Unsurprisingly, these people are also the ones that are most active on sites like Twitter where the echochamber-effect is so strong that nuance is barely allowed.

Free speech is most definitely a left wing value. Ask Noam Chomsky or Prof Richard Wolff. I'm a true blue lefty and I'm very much pro free speech.



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Eagle367 said:
Flilix said:

I feel very much the same way about this. I consider myself socially liberal/progressive, but the more and more the 'left' is getting dominated by extremely authoritarian and intollerant views. I completely support the classic "forget the old taboos, you can do what you want!" side of the left, but I have serious issues with the new "you can't say/do that anymore!" side. A while ago I read something about free speech being a 'conservative value', which I found very worrying.

I've also noticed that the most extreme ends of the political spectrum over here are very much inspired by their American examples and copy their rhetorics even when they barely make sense. Unsurprisingly, these people are also the ones that are most active on sites like Twitter where the echochamber-effect is so strong that nuance is barely allowed.

Free speech is most definitely a left wing value. Ask Noam Chomsky or Prof Richard Wolff. I'm a true blue lefty and I'm very much pro free speech.

Oh I know that it is (traditionally), but I feel like that is starting to shift. I don't believe that the intollerance towards free speech on 'the left' is already too problematic, but I do feel like it's gradually getting worse and it could get pretty bad in the future.



Flilix said:
Eagle367 said:

Free speech is most definitely a left wing value. Ask Noam Chomsky or Prof Richard Wolff. I'm a true blue lefty and I'm very much pro free speech.

Oh I know that it is (traditionally), but I feel like that is starting to shift. I don't believe that the intollerance towards free speech on 'the left' is already too problematic, but I do feel like it's gradually getting worse and it could get pretty bad in the future.

Overall the public impression recently has been that cancel culture is a left wing thing. But it is only some loud twitter crowd, classic left people are very much pro free speech. And not to forget, right wingers are fast to use cancel culture for their causes (and did this since centuries), but it is usually named differently, but still the same stuff.



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Flilix said:
Eagle367 said:

Free speech is most definitely a left wing value. Ask Noam Chomsky or Prof Richard Wolff. I'm a true blue lefty and I'm very much pro free speech.

Oh I know that it is (traditionally), but I feel like that is starting to shift. I don't believe that the intollerance towards free speech on 'the left' is already too problematic, but I do feel like it's gradually getting worse and it could get pretty bad in the future.

I have a few comments on that. First there are 2 scales for a reason. For one, thee libertarian to authoritarian scale is for the free speech stuff, not the left/right scale. And that's why the big L libertarian isn't the small l right wing libertarian. So noam Chomsky, Prof Richard Wolff, me and I assume you are libertarian left wingers while the crowd you don't like are more authoritarian left wingers.

Regarding the stuff about cancel culture, it's still not a left wing thing because the right wing has been doing it and continues to do it for ages while the left wingers who even want to do it don't have the power. Like right wingers are flouring on the net and social media, where they claim they are "cancelled" but a;; mainstream media basically banned left wingers from talking against the Iraq war, the patriot act, the Afghanistan war, etc before the internet rose to power. A few employees were fired for talking against these things and Jesse Ventura had a 3 year deal with MSNBC to do a show but when they learned that he was gonna talk against the war, they didn't air any episode and since it was an exclusivity deal, Jesse basically couldn't do anything else either. He was being paid but his voice was silenced. 

Even now, other than a few congress people they have to bring on, left wingers rarely get a free and equitable representation in MSM of different countries. Jeremy Corbyn in UK, Jagmeet Singh and NDP in Canada, many voices in the US, India, Pakistan, France, Australia, etc. Right wingers get way more airtime. Most socialists are for free speech even today. Liberals are a different story and those people are culturally left while economically centre to right wing. There is still a much larger segment of people who are libertarian left wingers than there are authoritarian left wingers meanwhile rulers and people in power like the rich and wealthy are almost exclusively in the authoritarian right wing quadrant.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

I'm left moderate social libertarian.

I would say this might be a decent representation of my views. Socially I'm Liberal, Economically I am moderate, and I'd probably fall into conservative or libertarian on topics like immigration. I'm mostly anti war and want the military funding to be cut. Abortion should be up to a woman.

Last edited by cycycychris - on 10 January 2021

     

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Enjoy. Right where I was 13 years ago when I started voting.



Yeah free speech is more of an authoritarian/libertarian thing than a left/right thing.

I fall somewhere in the middle on it.

On the one hand, I don't like the far left's increasingly harassing those who don't share their views and using "I'm offended by that" as a way to try to shut down differences of opinion.

On the other hand, free speech does not mean freedom from accountability. If I were to start openly preaching that "black people are subhuman and women shouldn't have the right to vote" social media platforms or my job would be right to deplatform/fire me respectively if they don't want to be associated with that kind of rubbish.

I mean, one could argue that talking on the phone is free speech, but what if the conversation I'm having it hiring a hitman to kill someone? I may not have pulled the trigger myself, just exercising my "freedom of speech", but I am still responsible for the resulting murder.



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curl-6 said:

Yeah free speech is more of an authoritarian/libertarian thing than a left/right thing.

I fall somewhere in the middle on it.

On the one hand, I don't like the far left's increasingly harassing those who don't share their views and using "I'm offended by that" as a way to try to shut down differences of opinion.

On the other hand, free speech does not mean freedom from accountability. If I were to start openly preaching that "black people are subhuman and women shouldn't have the right to vote" social media platforms or my job would be right to deplatform/fire me respectively if they don't want to be associated with that kind of rubbish.

I mean, one could argue that talking on the phone is free speech, but what if the conversation I'm having it hiring a hitman to kill someone? I may not have pulled the trigger myself, just exercising my "freedom of speech", but I am still responsible for the resulting murder.

First of all, I agree partially. I want to go in more detail on some points or put a bit of a different perspective.

Hiring a hitman is a crime, and we can agree that platform holders should not support crimes. It is basically as simple as that. The current blocking of Trump and Trump fans at least partially falls into that basket, as they were inciting violence.

The problem I have with that, that I don't see a consistent line or rule, just some decision the company makes. That is more along the line you say above, if someone has the right not to be associated with that rubbish. These are profit oriented companies, it is possible to pressure them. Without clear rules about what they disassociate from, they could next be pressured by Creationists to remove content about evolution. Or content creators that talk against neoliberalism. I do fear that quite a bit.



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