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Forums - Sony Discussion - Scalpers are threatening the profitability and longevity of PS5 | System suffers unusually low attach rate due to scalpers

Azzanation said:

Dude, i don't know what conversation you are on about, this isn't about system sales, its about manufacturing issues led by short supply which is causing scalpers to basically buy out all the stock to resell. Hence the low attach rate of games mentioned in this thread. Scalping only happens when companies deliver short supply..

Both PS5 are Series X have been sold out at launch, and that was helped due to scalpers and bots. Games cannot sell high amounts if the consoles aren't in actual customer hands.

This article is taking Japanese software sales, excluding digital sales, and extrapolating it to the rest of the world. Now look at the weekly charts for NA/EU and compare it to Japan. Do you see the problem? Nothing about this article proves that scalping will impact software sales. 

As for your stock comment, or the whole PS5 and Series X launching at "their" state, really only applies to MS. Sony was ready for a 2020 launch. 

Last edited by PotentHerbs - on 25 December 2020

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Ka-pi96 said:

That's one possibility.

It's also possible that people are just buying PS4 games instead because there aren't any good PS5 games. Seriously, is there even a single good exclusive?

Eh, PS5 has a decent launch lineup in terms of exclusives, better than PS4 / Xbox One (admittedly a low bar). It might lack a game that could be considered an exclusive system seller, but the exclusive it has are pretty good.



wohufana said:

Should both Sony and Microsoft seriously consider March as viable release month for their next gen console so that enough supply is provided in the market and that their early adapters who are considered their most avid consumers will not suffer? Sony and its game developers will benefit a lot too.

Worth noting that the Switch did indeed release in March and it seems to have had no real impact on its sales, it is selling really well. In fact it might arguably be slightly better to release a console in spring as opposed to winter, as the extra months will allow for more games to come out.

The 3DS also seems to have released in March, and although initial sales were very poor, the system sellers of Mario Kart 7 and Super Mario 3D Land plus the price cut seem to have saved it just in time.

Then again excluding the Switch hybrid console, no "proper" home console has launched outside the autumn/winter period since (depending on what region you live in):

Europe & Japan: The original Xbox (NA launch was in autumn, but JP/EU got it in spring 2002)
North America: The Sega Saturn! (May 1995)

I wonder if the huge flop of the Sega Saturn and its infamously rushed launch caused companies to be extremely averse to a home console launch outside autumn in North America. Even in Europe and Japan lanuches outside that period are rare.



Scalpers certainly aren’t helping but it is a little bit of a misnomer? Not entirely but partly at least?

Physical sales are down everywhere due to the shift to digital, that should make up some of the difference. Plus, aside from Demon’s Souls (which is a remake) there aren’t any big next gen exclusives yet.
Assassins Creed, Call of Duty, Spiderman, FIFA, Cyberpunk, Immortals, Yakuza, Watchdogs - all of this years big holidays releases are cross-gen, so it blurs its a bit.



Ka-pi96 said:

That's one possibility.

It's also possible that people are just buying PS4 games instead because there aren't any good PS5 games. Seriously, is there even a single good exclusive?

This, unlike the PS4/Switch, the PS5 is 99.99% BC with the previous Gen, including graphical improvment (Demon Souls is a great exclusive, although it isn’t for every one)

heck, right now Microsoft’s literally marketing the Series X/S as a BC machine due to the lack of Dedicated games at launch



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tack50 said:

Worth noting that the Switch did indeed release in March and it seems to have had no real impact on its sales, it is selling really well. In fact it might arguably be slightly better to release a console in spring as opposed to winter, as the extra months will allow for more games to come out.

The 3DS also seems to have released in March, and although initial sales were very poor, the system sellers of Mario Kart 7 and Super Mario 3D Land plus the price cut seem to have saved it just in time.

Then again excluding the Switch hybrid console, no "proper" home console has launched outside the autumn/winter period since (depending on what region you live in):

Europe & Japan: The original Xbox (NA launch was in autumn, but JP/EU got it in spring 2002)
North America: The Sega Saturn! (May 1995)

I wonder if the huge flop of the Sega Saturn and its infamously rushed launch caused companies to be extremely averse to a home console launch outside autumn in North America. Even in Europe and Japan lanuches outside that period are rare.

I think it is also worth noting that the PS2 was released in japan on March. This probably gave it a little room to have enough stock for the holidays in the rest of the world, here is a table of each Quarter for the PS2 (commulative)

DateAsia
(including Japan)
North AmericaEuropeWorldwide
March 31, 2000[2]1.41N/AN/A1.41
June 30, 2000[2]2.54N/AN/A2.54
September 30, 2000[2]3.52N/AN/A3.52
December 31, 2000[2]3.941.4616.4
March 31, 2001[2]4.753.012.8510.61

By the time the holidays came around it had already sold 3.5M units, I'm pretty sure this helped them with being able to keep up with demand. The PS5 has sold right now 3.7M units, and it is looking like it might reach around 4.5 for 2020. PS2 was able to sell 6.4 for the year 2000. 

These are the first 12 months of both the PS4 and the NS (month 1=January for both).

If you compare the PS4 first two months of launch(November+December) you get that it sold 4.2M compared to the NS Launch(March+April) that got 3.1M but if you look at the NS first holiday it sold 6M while if you look at the PS4 first March+April it was 1.6M.

So if you add the two periods for both you get that the PS4 sold 5.8M in those 4 months vs 9.1M of the NS.

I like the idea of being able to have a great launch month and then having another great period with the holidays. For this reason it makes sense to me that companies try to launch in March instead of November next time around.

But in the end it really comes down to how good the product is, PS4 and Wii sold great amounts on their first 12 months.

YearX360DSWiiPS3PSP3DSPSVWiiUPS4XONENS
15,094,7157,928,19614,519,7055,765,6387,460,52913,515,8973,468,5813,643,09013,210,6866,404,34915,071,420



As a proud console war fighter I can't say I'd mind Sony and Microsoft hitting giant tumbles and falls over this.

....If they stumble and fail enough maybe the companies will remember the actually selling console exists for a change.

So the Scalpers could do some good if they cripple the 9th generation consoles if nothing else. Not sure if they can but it isn't like there aren't other issues at hand for them so maybe they'd just be a part of the problem



The Democratic Nintendo fan....is that a paradox? I'm fond of one of the more conservative companies in the industry, but I vote Liberally and view myself that way 90% of the time?

You guys are giving too much credit to scalpers.

There simply aren't many PS5s out in the wild, and the PS Plus collection and digital offers in general are just too good to pass up, making physical sales lower than ever.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Azzanation said:
Cobretti2 said:

Why does everyone assume its all about Xmas bonuses. For most part companies differ when they pay them or if they even pay them. Some pay twice a year, some once a year. Mine for example pays in September. my best friends company doesn't even pay a bonus.

It is just pure business sense to do it for various reasons (yes bonuses may be one of them but not the main reason). Christmas everyone goes crazy buying presents so you release something for it. I'd argue for a console manufacturer it is more about recouping the R&D costs quicker for the new console and giving confidence to shareholders and developers that the console has a strong start.

'

Because.. they will sell the most units at Xmas time which boosts their sales by a decent market. You don't figure why they both didn't want to wait after Xmas?

And that is what I said Xmas sales. It does not however mean like you imply only do it because they want Xmas bonuses. Many other more important reasons (which I stated) why they would do it over a Xmas bonus.



 

 

KManX89 said:

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/ps5-scalpers-are-threatening-the-long-term-health-of-the-console-report-claims/

Sony was already facing challenges satisfying demand for the product, but shortages have been exacerbated by scalpers reselling large quantities of the console at significant mark-ups, keeping it out of the hands of consumers and in turn damaging pivotal software sales.

The knock-on effect is an unusually low software attach rate in Japan, Bloomberg reports. As noted by the publication, a healthy ratio for a new console is around one game sold for each console bought.

But based on Japanese sales data from Famitsu, Sony sold around 213,000 PS5 consoles in the product’s first month of availability and just 63,000 physical games, meaning consumers have bought less than one packaged game for every three consoles purchased.

Lucrative software sales are particularly important at the start of a console’s lifecycle when the hardware is sold at a loss, Bloomberg added.

There are other factors that could be impacting early physical PS5 software sales, most notably the shift to digital. In Sony’s last fiscal year, digital software sales accounted for 55% of total PS4 software sales, and they represented an even greater percentage of the total in the first half of the current fiscal year.

PS5 also comes pre-installed with a game, Astro’s Playroom, and is backwards compatible with PS4 titles.

“Even if we consider digital download software purchases, the percentage of sold PlayStation 5s actually in use is not that high, meaning the current demand is constrained by profit-taking resellers,” according to Hideki Yasuda, an analyst at Ace Research Institute.

Another analyst told Bloomberg that consumers’ inability to acquire the console and the resulting hit on software sales could negatively impact the profitability of the PlayStation business over the coming years.

“The PlayStation 5 could miss a critical chance to get into a good hardware-software upward spiral,” said Kazunori Ito of Morningstar Research. “The peak of the platform will likely be low and the platform’s total revenue earned won’t be as strong as we hoped for.”

Bloomberg even claims that a major Japanese publisher has internally discussed the possibility of delaying its PS5 games based on concerns it has about the early market response to the console.

Still think scalping isn't a big deal? It's hurting Sony's (and surely MS's as well) bottom line because no games are being sold. Why? Because the scalpers are hoarding them off with bots. Console sales mean nothing if no one's actually playing them because they're sold at a loss. And the funny thing is, I told you all this would happen, and I was proven right.

Yeah, yeah, I know what the response is gonna be, "the gobermint can't tell me what I can and can't do with something I bought (read: botted)" yes they can, and they already do, like I said, ticket scalping is illegal. When you're scamming consumers and hurting company's profits, I believe they have every right to get involved. One publisher even said they might delay their PS5 games because of this shit. 'Cuz if no one's actually buying the games, no one profits.

I don't really see a problem. This will only go on for so long. The scalpers aren't hoarding the consoles. They are trying to make a profit off of it. So it's really just a matter of time until everything balances out.