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Forums - Gaming Discussion - MS CFO Tim Stuart defends throwing MTX into $70 games.

sales2099 said:

Like PS fans never said “just wait” before. Then let me state for the record I’m simply excited and can’t wait for what the future holds. If that bothers you then I say you got problems of your own. In the meantime I’m enjoying their BC program, unique genres like Gears Tactics, and saving money via GP (I would assume you can at least empathize with that one). 

You being excited for the future never bothered me one bit. I'm excited for the potential in the future, too. the issue is that you're taking this optimism to debates about what WILL happen or whether or not Microsoft or Sony has more momentum going into the next generation. Like I said, you're bringing opinions to a fact fight and using your hope and faith that Microsoft will finally pick up the pace and actually do something interesting as a basis for your arguments. The issue has always been that your optimism and personal preferences seem to override your logic centers. Your hopes for Microsoft speak louder than their history and track record. 

The difference between us is entirely based on logic and reason. I don't like Gran Turismo or Uncharted or The Last of Us...but they're still games that sell well and have a HUGE impact on the brand image. I also hate Halo and think it made the entire FPS genre kinda suck with its shields and sterile generic space commando nonsense, but my opinion on all of these franchises is moot. My subjective opinion on these matters is irrelevant, becuse they're all bestselling games with critical acclaim. I am the minority so I don't let my feelings get in the way of facts. What we CAN say, however, is that there is tangible, objective truths about the public perception of these franchises. The Last of Us is staying pretty steady (2 was slightly lower), Uncharted 4 did slightly better than 3 in critical reception and sold a tonne more, and Gran Turismo is selling less and getting lower scores now than it was at its peak. Likewise, Halo and Gears have lower scores and sales than previous entries and are on a downward trajectory. These are the facts. 

Subjectively, Kena: Bridge of Spirits is a huge point of interest for me and a prime example of a game I want on Ps5...but you know what? I hardly ever use it as justification for my expectations or predictions because it's an unknown quantity. it could be the next big thing, or it could flop. My desire to see it succeed is not enough to go off. Just like Returnal or The Medium or Avowed or so many other unknown quantities. So much potential, but there's no way to know at this point whether they're going to be system-sellers or not. The difference between you and I is that you've already decided they are and are acting as though they're absolute, surefire hits whereas I'm saying it's too early to know. 

And as for the topic at hand, a huge part of the reason Sony games have been getting great reviews whereas Microsoft have not is because Halo, Gears, and Forza all have microtransactions whereas God of War, Spider-Man, and Horizon: Zero dawn do not. Given the history of it all, it's fair to say God of War Ragnarok, Spider-Man Miles Morales, and Horizon: The Forbidden West will not and thus the anticipation is far better. Plus all of those games are coming off absolute banger titles, all 10+ million sellers with one of them being a completely new IP and another being a vast departure from the prior games in the series. when Halo was shown, all people could talk about was how disappointing it looked. Power and speed mean nothing if the games don't live up to the hype. Momentum is a very important factor, and Microtransactions slow momentum, while new games improve said momentum. 

The two companies have VASTLY different approaches, which is why Sony is exciting while Microsoft is not. Microtransactions are a huge reason for that, just like it was in 2013 when Microsoft was pushing Microtransactions and DRM and all manner of garbage into their console that the market handily rejected. Sure, they're not doing DRM or Kinect anymore, but they still are going out of their way to justify Microtransactions nd push the narrative of power over innovation and as a result they're going to flounder again unless pretty much every one of those studios puts out an absolute banger of a game and quick. 

Here, Jim Sterling does a pretty good breakdown explaining how Microsoft has been at the forefront of making the games industry worse and why I'm so critical of Microsoft/Xbox.



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II, Rock Band 4

Around the Network
Runa216 said:
sales2099 said:

Like PS fans never said “just wait” before. Then let me state for the record I’m simply excited and can’t wait for what the future holds. If that bothers you then I say you got problems of your own. In the meantime I’m enjoying their BC program, unique genres like Gears Tactics, and saving money via GP (I would assume you can at least empathize with that one). 

You being excited for the future never bothered me one bit. I'm excited for the potential in the future, too. the issue is that you're taking this optimism to debates about what WILL happen or whether or not Microsoft or Sony has more momentum going into the next generation. Like I said, you're bringing opinions to a fact fight and using your hope and faith that Microsoft will finally pick up the pace and actually do something interesting as a basis for your arguments. The issue has always been that your optimism and personal preferences seem to override your logic centers. Your hopes for Microsoft speak louder than their history and track record. 

The difference between us is entirely based on logic and reason. I don't like Gran Turismo or Uncharted or The Last of Us...but they're still games that sell well and have a HUGE impact on the brand image. I also hate Halo and think it made the entire FPS genre kinda suck with its shields and sterile generic space commando nonsense, but my opinion on all of these franchises is moot. My subjective opinion on these matters is irrelevant, becuse they're all bestselling games with critical acclaim. I am the minority so I don't let my feelings get in the way of facts. What we CAN say, however, is that there is tangible, objective truths about the public perception of these franchises. The Last of Us is staying pretty steady (2 was slightly lower), Uncharted 4 did slightly better than 3 in critical reception and sold a tonne more, and Gran Turismo is selling less and getting lower scores now than it was at its peak. Likewise, Halo and Gears have lower scores and sales than previous entries and are on a downward trajectory. These are the facts. 

Subjectively, Kena: Bridge of Spirits is a huge point of interest for me and a prime example of a game I want on Ps5...but you know what? I hardly ever use it as justification for my expectations or predictions because it's an unknown quantity. it could be the next big thing, or it could flop. My desire to see it succeed is not enough to go off. Just like Returnal or The Medium or Avowed or so many other unknown quantities. So much potential, but there's no way to know at this point whether they're going to be system-sellers or not. The difference between you and I is that you've already decided they are and are acting as though they're absolute, surefire hits whereas I'm saying it's too early to know. 

And as for the topic at hand, a huge part of the reason Sony games have been getting great reviews whereas Microsoft have not is because Halo, Gears, and Forza all have microtransactions whereas God of War, Spider-Man, and Horizon: Zero dawn do not. Given the history of it all, it's fair to say God of War Ragnarok, Spider-Man Miles Morales, and Horizon: The Forbidden West will not and thus the anticipation is far better. Plus all of those games are coming off absolute banger titles, all 10+ million sellers with one of them being a completely new IP and another being a vast departure from the prior games in the series. when Halo was shown, all people could talk about was how disappointing it looked. Power and speed mean nothing if the games don't live up to the hype. Momentum is a very important factor, and Microtransactions slow momentum, while new games improve said momentum. 

The two companies have VASTLY different approaches, which is why Sony is exciting while Microsoft is not. Microtransactions are a huge reason for that, just like it was in 2013 when Microsoft was pushing Microtransactions and DRM and all manner of garbage into their console that the market handily rejected. Sure, they're not doing DRM or Kinect anymore, but they still are going out of their way to justify Microtransactions nd push the narrative of power over innovation and as a result they're going to flounder again unless pretty much every one of those studios puts out an absolute banger of a game and quick. 

Here, Jim Sterling does a pretty good breakdown explaining how Microsoft has been at the forefront of making the games industry worse and why I'm so critical of Microsoft/Xbox.

I video from a year ago.. Brilliant!.



Runa216 said:
sales2099 said:

Like PS fans never said “just wait” before. Then let me state for the record I’m simply excited and can’t wait for what the future holds. If that bothers you then I say you got problems of your own. In the meantime I’m enjoying their BC program, unique genres like Gears Tactics, and saving money via GP (I would assume you can at least empathize with that one). 

Here, Jim Sterling does a pretty good breakdown explaining how Microsoft has been at the forefront of making the games industry worse and why I'm so critical of Microsoft/Xbox.

Jesus this is long. Like a little off topic banter is ok but lol cmon this is ridiculous. Out of concern to derail the thread with mods I won’t go further with this. You just seem bitter and unwilling to see how others can like what you cant. Like GP is a big reason why Xbox has my loyalty. I’ll keep saying it...you’d think someone in your situation would appreciate the financial benefits/appeal. It’s a little funny that I can make you be THIS descriptive off topic. I asked you to PM but I guess you relish the idea of an audience validating you. 

And Don, merely saying we seeing the seeds of what’s to come. Much better then 2019. Publishing is used by both brands now and in future. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 23 November 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Baddman said:

I feel so robbed playing gears 5 all these hours and not buying useless skins I was robbed of a complete experience :(

I’m surprised you are even posting in this thread while feeling so much shame. I mean you’ve played the campaign multiple times and lots of MP and haven’t even spent your $100 to get the complete experience. 

Even worse, you’ve spent so much time playing one game. Imagine getting so much value and enjoyment out of one title instead of beating the campaign and moving on to the next title. Plus you haven’t even gotten the complete Gears 5 experience and you still have such a large play time. You must feel so stupid right now.



sales2099 said:Jesus this is long. Like a little off topic banter is ok but lol cmon this is ridiculous. Out of concern to derail the thread with mods I won’t go further with this. You just seem bitter and unwilling to see how others can like what you cant. Like GP is a big reason why Xbox has my loyalty. I’ll keep saying it...you’d think someone in your situation would appreciate the financial benefits/appeal. It’s a little funny that I can make you be THIS descriptive off topic. I asked you to PM but I guess you relish the idea of an audience validating you. 


And Don, merely saying we seeing the seeds of what’s to come. Much better then 2019. Publishing is used by both brands now and in future. 

Jesus dude, I've said time and time again this isn't and never has been about our subjective opinions on the matter. You're allowed to like what you like and I'm allowed to like what I like. I've repeated time and time again that the contentiousness of it all comes from you translating your subjective opinions to objective predictions and there's no logic in that. I love bloodborne/Dark Souls/Sekiro but those are niche titles. as a result, PS5's Launch was great because Demon's Souls is great, but it's not gonna be a mega-seller like Miles Morales. 

I just...either you're not actually listening to a single thing I've said or you concede that your points have no real weight and the only way you can argue is if you turn it into some misguided discussion on preferences, a discussion I have plenty interest in joining but not here. I'd be happy to talk about what you like on Xbox and what I like on Nintendo/Playstation, that is fun and interesting, but that's not what this is about - a fact I've repeated too many times to count. and yes, this is on topic because one of the reasons I get grumpy with Microsoft IS their microtransactions and overall views towards the industry...as illustrated...in that video...that you certainly didn't watch. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II, Rock Band 4

Around the Network
Runa216 said:
sales2099 said:Jesus this is long. Like a little off topic banter is ok but lol cmon this is ridiculous. Out of concern to derail the thread with mods I won’t go further with this. You just seem bitter and unwilling to see how others can like what you cant. Like GP is a big reason why Xbox has my loyalty. I’ll keep saying it...you’d think someone in your situation would appreciate the financial benefits/appeal. It’s a little funny that I can make you be THIS descriptive off topic. I asked you to PM but I guess you relish the idea of an audience validating you. 


And Don, merely saying we seeing the seeds of what’s to come. Much better then 2019. Publishing is used by both brands now and in future. 

Jesus dude, I've said time and time again this isn't and never has been about our subjective opinions on the matter. You're allowed to like what you like and I'm allowed to like what I like. I've repeated time and time again that the contentiousness of it all comes from you translating your subjective opinions to objective predictions and there's no logic in that. I love bloodborne/Dark Souls/Sekiro but those are niche titles. as a result, PS5's Launch was great because Demon's Souls is great, but it's not gonna be a mega-seller like Miles Morales. 

I just...either you're not actually listening to a single thing I've said or you concede that your points have no real weight and the only way you can argue is if you turn it into some misguided discussion on preferences, a discussion I have plenty interest in joining but not here. I'd be happy to talk about what you like on Xbox and what I like on Nintendo/Playstation, that is fun and interesting, but that's not what this is about - a fact I've repeated too many times to count. and yes, this is on topic because one of the reasons I get grumpy with Microsoft IS their microtransactions and overall views towards the industry...as illustrated...in that video...that you certainly didn't watch. 

I’m allowed to have predictions and be excited for what’s to come. If you take issue with me being “certain” of it then tough luck. 

There is a clear difference in how each company handles their first party. GP, essential to Xboxs plans, nullifies the upfront cost, Sony still demands you pay full price day 1. This must be taken into consideration. In theory I save more money then you despite paying for some mtx here and there, can’t ignore this fact. 

It also comes down to a fundamental difference between a single player only game and a campaign/multiplayer with free content and active support. Which yes, offer optional and cosmetic mtx to compensate for said free content/updates. What’s important is that these games do it right. Not pay to win, no loot boxes, and frivolous in nature. Pretty sure GT7 will have post launch pricing for extra content, as will LOU2 MP if its anything like the first. Works both ways. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

So many people whinging over MTXs dont understand. Optional MTXs are far from a bad thing, there are good MTXs that actually adds more value to games that have been on the shelf for awhile and than you have bad MTXs, where developers will choose to chop out content and try to resell parts of the game for more profits.

A Good example is Smash Brothers Ultimate. MTXs including more characters being added over the course of time which boosts the games popularity and replay-ability plus its an option, its not necessary.

A Bad example is a fighting game that purposely locks a main character away and is only accessible by MTXs for no reason. Which forces the gamers to purchase there favorite fighter that is expected to be in the game.

People like to categorize everything into one bracket, adding the good with the bad instead of understanding that its how the MTXs are implemented. I don't care if i play a game with MTXs as long as its done right and is nothing more than an option.

The same hate is placed on Google Stadia, barely anyone has it yet already hates it because its a popular trend to hate it. Now keep in mind i don't love or hate Stadia as i havent used one, however people just love to hate because they can rather than giving valid reasons why they hate it.



I don't see what the big deal is about a business guy talking about business stuff. Literally all businesses exist to maximize the bottom line, and they make top line (revenue, driven by pricing of their products) decisions to get there. The dude did bothihg but regurgitate some business 101 textbook material here.



I picture people with flame torches and pitchforks when mtx are announced Lol. Doesn’t matter the game or situation, a primal response is triggered. They do have a place if done right though.

Can’t compare a single player “one and done” to a single player game with a multiplayer with consistent, free add ons, that use mtx to compensate. The golden rule is that they aren’t random, and don’t affect gameplay in terms of increasing odds of winning. Hence optional, not random cosmetics is the best way forward. Apples and oranges.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles.