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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Series S vs Series X (resolution, performance, etc.)

Mr Puggsly said:

Again, the enviornment changing form and allowing water to realistically flow around it is more CPU and GPU intensive. But thank you for elaborating.

According to MS the Crackdown destruction was CPU intensive. Probably too demanding even for current gen CPUs.

So Outerworlds struggled with 8th gen RAM limitations, but it also works on Switch? Impressive. I guess what I was really trying to say is 8th gen has plenty of open world games with lots of activity and the Series S specs overall can expand on that significantly. Especially if the SSD can alleviate stress on RAM and quickly load in signifcant data given its apparently 40x faster.

That article about Crytek from 2014 shows you are grasping at straws. For two reasons, that studio has sucked this generation and games have become significantly more impressive on 8th gen hardware since 2014. Seriously, don't bother with crap like that.

Developers primary focus will be to keep making tradional games with improved visuals and maybe increase the scale. What you are asking for is more like tech demos that developers probably aren't aiming for.

But since Sony 1st party is not hindered by Series S, maybe they will develop this amazing project you have in your head.

What has gotten significantly more impressive in terms of dynamism and interactivity?
From dust was a tech demo?

Memory was a big constraint and will be again. For example, Fallout 4, constantly hitting the limit while building
https://gamecrate.com/why-hardware-limitations-made-developing-way-out-xbox-one-special-challenge/18596
Series S doesn't only have less RAM, it's slower as well

We'll see how it goes. Today I had to abort my storm chasing in FS2020, the game needed too much RAM slowing down to sub 5fps with windows trying to provide more through pagefile and compressing parts of the memory. It didn't crash at least :)

I'll keep dreaming about worlds that actually change over time without limits to building.



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TallSilhouette said:

Linus doesn't have the kindest impression of the S in head to heads with the X.

If the only tangible differences between the two boxes were resolution and price, the S would be a very compelling option. In practice though we're already seeing games with significant differences outside of resolution. Series S is an interesting concept that could still be successful, but I think MS missed the mark a bit in comparison to the well designed Series X and I don't think I'd recommend the S to any friends whom care at all about fidelity as their primary Xbox. Still a good option as a secondary box or cheap Game Pass machine, though.

I agree with some things in the video. The Series X is a better investment. However, the Series S is still much better than a base X1. It plays all BC content better and patches improve games significantly, loads games much faster, has quick resume and its getting next gen content. He didn't mention you can use cheaper external storage for all BC content which is pretty significant. So its still a huge upgrade for base X1 users.

The primary differences thus far between Series S and X games has been performance, resolution and ray tracing. The games simply playing is more important.

I am an avid gamer and I want the premium option. But the Series S is already a success. If you were fine with base consoles before, Series S is still a huge overall upgrade.



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for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

SvennoJ said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Again, the enviornment changing form and allowing water to realistically flow around it is more CPU and GPU intensive. But thank you for elaborating.

According to MS the Crackdown destruction was CPU intensive. Probably too demanding even for current gen CPUs.

So Outerworlds struggled with 8th gen RAM limitations, but it also works on Switch? Impressive. I guess what I was really trying to say is 8th gen has plenty of open world games with lots of activity and the Series S specs overall can expand on that significantly. Especially if the SSD can alleviate stress on RAM and quickly load in signifcant data given its apparently 40x faster.

That article about Crytek from 2014 shows you are grasping at straws. For two reasons, that studio has sucked this generation and games have become significantly more impressive on 8th gen hardware since 2014. Seriously, don't bother with crap like that.

Developers primary focus will be to keep making tradional games with improved visuals and maybe increase the scale. What you are asking for is more like tech demos that developers probably aren't aiming for.

But since Sony 1st party is not hindered by Series S, maybe they will develop this amazing project you have in your head.

What has gotten significantly more impressive in terms of dynamism and interactivity?
From dust was a tech demo?

Memory was a big constraint and will be again. For example, Fallout 4, constantly hitting the limit while building
https://gamecrate.com/why-hardware-limitations-made-developing-way-out-xbox-one-special-challenge/18596
Series S doesn't only have less RAM, it's slower as well

We'll see how it goes. Today I had to abort my storm chasing in FS2020, the game needed too much RAM slowing down to sub 5fps with windows trying to provide more through pagefile and compressing parts of the memory. It didn't crash at least :)

I'll keep dreaming about worlds that actually change over time without limits to building.

From Dust was small in scale. Applying the tech you're suggesting to racing games would be cool, but again its more of CPU and GPU problem.

On a side note, Hydro Phobia was a really cool game given the specs it was on. Which shows games can be innovative even on very limited specs.

When I suggested 8th gen didn't struggle with RAM as much, I mean games didn't start to break because lack of RAM. Kinda like Skyrim on PS3. Games just worker more seemless even after many hours of play.

I am not sure how much slower RAM matters, especially since its still pretty fast. The general consensus is the amount of RAM available could be a bigger problem.

"I'll keep dreaming about worlds that actually change over time without limits to building." Next gen consoles still have limits.

Either way, the point of this thread is we observe what ports are looking like in practice. That's more interesting than debating what may happen.



Recently Completed
Rage 2
for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly said:

The primary differences thus far between Series S and X games has been performance, resolution and ray tracing. The games simply playing is more important.

I am an avid gamer and I want the premium option. But the Series S is already a success. If you were fine with base consoles before, Series S is still a huge overall upgrade.

For people with a 1080p screen the difference between Series S and X will be framerate, texture details and supersampling. I think Series S will get Watch-Dogs style ray-tracing as a rule of thumb. At any rate I don't think going off Yakuza as a baseline is very wise. Nonetheless I don't want to see any more AC Valhalla situations where Series S targets 1440p/30 instead of 1080p/60fps. 

On the technical level the only concern I have about the S is that the memory is not unified. The biggest reason the Xbox One lagged so far behind the base PS4 last gen was that rendering targets needed to be squished into that tiny 32MB of ESram, meanwhile only 5 (patched to 6) GB of the shared system memory was available to used for games. Big multiplatforms had non-trivial amounts of memory sitting idle because frankly they couldn't access it without a lot of effort that quite often wasn't worth exerting on the One S. Meanwhile PS4 had unified RAM and it was faster. This complexity brought the PS4's theoretical 25%~ lead in graphics performance up to a 50% increase in resolution and often higher framerates to boot.

My point is just that the more complicated Xbox make their memory architecture, the worse they hold up against Playstation equivalents, because multiplatforms tend to be developed there first. The Series X is sexy and unified, except for some of the RAM running slower. The Series S isn't, and I see a repeat. The Series S CPU is not a problem. It actually appears to be faster than the PS5's. The GPU may begin to struggle at 1440p/30 or 1080p/60 but graphics can be scaled without damaging core gameplay. But yeah. Dev tools are important and Series S needs some love from devs



Nice comparisons!



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Judging by the initial performance reviews, I'd say;

If you are neutral between the two camps, and cannot afford $500, then go for the Playstation 5 digital, which has 2-3x the times performance of Series S and seems to match the performance of Series X so far. I would not buy a Series S for myself not just because of the lower performance but also the storage with far too little space. But if you are an Xbox fan and devoted to the camp, then go for the Series X. Only if you are going to gift it to somebody else, then Series S might be good for you....

Last edited by freedquaker - on 16 November 2020

Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

Im underwhelmed by Series S. I though the difference would be games running at 1080p instead of of 4k only which would make sense I guess since it would be generating only 25% of the pixels of a 4K game. But it seems the gap is much wider and games need to run at 30fps. Why would Valhalla have to run 1620p/30 fps instead of 1080p/60fps? Or why you would have to turn off ray tracing ON TOP of lowering resolution from 4k to 1080p?



Mr Puggsly said:

From Dust was small in scale. Applying the tech you're suggesting to racing games would be cool, but again its more of CPU and GPU problem.

On a side note, Hydro Phobia was a really cool game given the specs it was on. Which shows games can be innovative even on very limited specs.

When I suggested 8th gen didn't struggle with RAM as much, I mean games didn't start to break because lack of RAM. Kinda like Skyrim on PS3. Games just worker more seemless even after many hours of play.

I am not sure how much slower RAM matters, especially since its still pretty fast. The general consensus is the amount of RAM available could be a bigger problem.

"I'll keep dreaming about worlds that actually change over time without limits to building." Next gen consoles still have limits.

Either way, the point of this thread is we observe what ports are looking like in practice. That's more interesting than debating what may happen.

Well, there's Ark where you can get rid of the Tether while playing on a local server. Not sure if that's CPU or RAM preventing players to get too far apart, maybe both. Ark is not well optimized anyway, but it was fun until my kid kept dragging me away from building due to the annoying tether.

But, true, let's get back on track.

So far we're seeing a choice between fps parity and detail parity, next to a resolution drop to either 1440p or 1080p
These are just cross-gen titles though, we'll have to wait for Halo Infinite to see what the real difference is.



SvennoJ said:


So far we're seeing a choice between fps parity and detail parity, next to a resolution drop to either 1440p or 1080p
These are just cross-gen titles though, we'll have to wait for Halo Infinite to see what the real difference is.

Given Halo Infinite is cross gen, I don't anticipate it will be much different between Series S and X.

Much like Gears 5, the Series consoles may just get added effects and better assets. Maybe some sort of ray tracing will be implemented given that was entertained. CoD:Cold War for example has some light use of RT that seemingly has little GPU impact.



Recently Completed
Rage 2
for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

freedquaker said:

Judging by the initial performance reviews, I'd say;

If you are neutral between the two camps, and cannot afford $500, then go for the Playstation 5 digital, which has 2-3x the times performance of Series S and seems to match the performance of Series X so far. I would not buy a Series S for myself not just because of the lower performance but also the storage with far too little space. But if you are an Xbox fan and devoted to the camp, then go for the Series X. Only if you are going to gift it to somebody else, then Series S might be good for you....

I suspect many people buying a Series S already have/had a base Xbox One and a library of games. Which is fine for them because it will make their library better (fast loading, quick resume, better performance/resolution, etc) and Series S content is also a massive upgrade. Maybe spending as little as possible is also appealing to them even if its arguably not the best investment.

If I was given a Series S as a gift or something, I would still be happy to use it for many titles in my backlog. I just recently started playing Fallout 4 for example, with faster loading that game would be much more enjoyable on a Series S than my Xbox One. I was thinking of playing Just Cause 3, which will now be a solid 30 fps on Series S. You get the idea.

When you consider the PS5 Digital is only $399, the Series S doesn't seem cheap enough. I feel like the Series S should be $249, but that probably won't happen for a while. Either way, the Series S could have the potential to always be $100-150 cheaper than a PS5 digital I assume. Series S will be a hot item every November/December if it maintains reasonable quality in AAA games and is competitively priced.



Recently Completed
Rage 2
for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)