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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The 11th Annual Greatest Games Event - The Discussion Thread

mZuzek said:


Guessed by @drbunnig

You know, I haven't played lots of open-world games. I've been away from AAA gaming over the past decade, and barely touched any of these mainstream games, so I don't really understand where the genre's gone to. Then, this month, I bought a AAA open world game, a certain Cyberpunk 2077, and while it was an experience I wholly enjoyed, it made me really understand just what Breath of the Wild meant to this genre - and how depressing it is that other developers are still, three years later, ignoring the lessons this game taught them.

The first time I opened the map in Cyberpunk 2077, I was met with a ridiculously detailed view of the city, so detailed it was hard to understand, and the whole screen was loaded with icons everywhere, showing me all the places of interest I'd find in the game. The first time I opened the map in Breath of the Wild, all there was to see was an icon signifying where I was, an icon showing my current objective, and a whole lot of nothing. I was visible in the map as this tiny icon in the middle of an enormous unknown, just trying to find my way around.

It's a very stark contrast.

Sure, eventually you do get to the towers which show you what the map looks like, but even then the game never gives you icons or waypoints telling you where to find interesting things - the icons that eventually start to pop up in the map only signify places you've been to. What this means, is that instead of opening the map to follow the pre-determined objectives in order to finish them, you're actively avoiding the markers and instead focusing on the places you know nothing about. You're not deleting icons from the map, you're creating them. It kinda sounds like a small thing, but it really isn't - this is one of the key ways through which Breath of the Wild amplifies its sense of adventure and discovery, whereas other games of this kind usually end up feeling like you're going through a checklist.

When you're met with a loading screen in Breath of the Wild, it shows you how many shrines you've completed and how many korok seeds you've acquired. There are a whopping 120 shrines and 900 korok seeds to collect in the game, which can be really daunting, but... the game knows that, and thus it keeps that information from you. It doesn't want you to know, because it wants you to focus on how many things you've done rather than how many things there are left to do - otherwise, if you completed the first shrine and read "1/120" on the loading screen, you'd immediately feel overwhelmed, like you're expected to now go and do all 120. That's why Breath of the Wild is so great. It doesn't expect you to do anything. It's not trying to get you interested in the game by forcing its content down your throat - instead, it's confident that players will be naturally interested in what it has to offer.

For a genre called "open-world", I find it funny how most of its games have no sense of discovery in them. Like, at all. Getting this aspect right is crucial for a game like this to feel exciting and interesting, and Breath of the Wild knocks it out of the park in this regard. The game also has lots of other qualities to it, and some flaws too, but at its core it's all about allowing the player to do whatever they want to do, without adding any unnecessary distractions, and this is why it's the best open-world game out there.

Top 50 >>

Gah! That's it! I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out why BotW had so much charm compared to other open world games. And that's fucking it! They don't reveal the entire map to you. You can't just magically fast travel to some city at the end of the map, like you can in Skyrim or any other open world game. At least not in the start. You have to discover every location yourself, and actually explore the world. It was because Nintendo knew you were going to explore their world that they peppered it with interesting and unique things to discover. I'm playing Cyberpunk right now, and one major flaw of the game is that every back alley, and every drug den looks the same. All the enemies are just casually thrown into an area, and given a note explaining what they are doing there. "Yo Choom, this guy killed my sister, let's get him". "Hey Choom, this guy owes me money, go kill him." "That's it Choom, I'm coming to fuck you up! You stole my drugs!" I mean, I really do like Cyberpunk, but one end of the city looks the same as any other end. I really like how BotW has so many unique areas to explore, and so many off the beaten path things to do.

mZuzek said:


Guessed by @Darashiva

This is for metroidvanias kinda like what Breath of the Wild was for open worlds. The genre here wasn't necessarily lacking in its sense of discovery, even if Hollow Knight gets that aspect far better than other metroidvanias, but the genre certainly was lacking in innovation. It was starting to feel more and more like every metroidvania had to be either a copy of Metroid, a copy of Castlevania, or barely feel like a metroidvania at all (Ori). When Hollow Knight came along it really shattered the notion - it destroyed the status quo, and became the new definitive metroidvania, finally dethroning the two games that named the genre.

It isn't hard to describe how it did this. It has loads of content, way more than any other game of its kind. Its story and world are fascinating, deep, and original. Its gameplay also feels unique within the genre, and the simple mechanics make for a nice slow-paced approach to exploration, while still allowing for some breathtaking boss encounters that can feel very technical. The art direction is simple but incredibly charming and evocative, and the music creates a wonderful, deep, melancholic atmosphere that really enriches the game's world. Throughout all of its aspects, Hollow Knight keeps it simple, but it knows just when to amp things up and take everything one step further every time you begin to feel like something's gonna get stale. As a result, it remains interesting throughout its 40+ hour long play time, something many metroidvanias fail to achieve even with far shorter playthroughs.

I really have nothing negative to say about this one. It's not only a masterpiece in its excellent execution of all its concepts, but also in how it revolutionized its own genre and set a new standard for what people should expect from games like this. Furthermore, it also showed just how successful you can be if you put in the time and effort, single-handedly transforming Team Cherry, a tiny group of nobodies from Australia, into one of the world's most respected (even if still tiny) developers.

Top 50 >>

Once again, thankyou for getting me to play this. It really is the best Metroidvania game ever made.

mZuzek said:


Guessed by @Hynad

Alright, I've done my fair bit of gushing about this one, now it's time to...

...Yeah, continue gushing, of course.

I'm a bit of a sucker for things that get me emotional, something games usually don't do, but damn does Ori succeed at it. Blind Forest was already a deeply emotional experience for me, but Will of the Wisps took it to the next level, as it did with everything. This was one of those games that had me hooked from the first minute, constantly rooting for the good guys, hoping that things would always turn out okay even though knowing that not all would - and everytime something bad happened, the floodgates opened quite fast. It wasn't just the protagonists either, just about every character I met on this wonderful journey, even the most irrelevant ones, even the unnamed ones, had me rooting for them and wishing them well. Everything about this game resonated with me on a level not many, if any, games do. The way it toyed with my feelings at every turn was quite something, and how it made me cry at the end was something I don't think I'd experienced since watching a certain movie in cinemas some three and a half a years ago.

Of course, even if it's so impactful, the story in Ori and the Will of the Wisps is, like its predecessor, kept very minimalistic and simple. It's told through few, short, and very poignant cutscenes, which make up a small portion of the amount of time you spend, you know, actually playing the game.

Thankfully, the game is nothing short of incredible. Ori always felt great to control, with fast-paced, fluid movement and lots of awesome platforming abilities. Will of the Wisps makes the most of this, by keeping all of the first game's best abilities, and reworking the less interesting ones into far more intuitive and fun versions. It ditches just about none of them, though some are changed drastically enough to the point of being renamed, but it still manages to do away with the first game's issue of overloading the controller with too many options for too many buttons. Instead, despite having far more options at your disposal here, the game never feels awkward to play.

Another area in which Will of the Wisps greatly improves on its predecessor is in its level design. Blind Forest was a fine enough metroidvania, but its best qualities were always centered around the platforming and never about the exploration. Will of the Wisps knows this and keeps its level design straight to the point with well-defined progression points and self-contained levels which feel more like something out of a Zelda game than a metroidvania. Despite this, it still manages to feel like a more cohesive and believable world than the one from Nibel, thanks in part to a colorful cast of characters that pop up everywhere, but in larger part due to the level design focusing on more natural obstacles - too often in Blind Forest the levels you were traversing felt really game-y, with weird traps and contraptions and deadly lasers that made no sense for the environment they were in, but here in Niwen, everything you're doing feels a lot more cohesive with the world itself, while keeping the challenge factor intact.

Then, of course, there's the combat. This one's quite obvious, really, it was the main focus here. Blind Forest's combat was just a bonus thing, something that usually felt inconsequential to the gameplay, because the developers knew the platforming was the best thing about the game - Will of the Wisps reworks the whole combat system, giving Ori lots of new tools and weapons to use in a deep and rewarding combat system that feels like something out of a hack and slash game. Despite this, the platforming remains the game's biggest strength, and the developers know this, so they made this combat system amplify the platforming even more. Swing your sword while in the air and you gain more horizontal distance; swing it upwards, and you gain a little bit of height; hit an enemy while in the air, and you recover your double jump; use your bow in the air and you cancel your aerial momentum. The list goes on and on, and it's only amplified when combining it with awesome mechanics like the Bash, making for a ridiculously awesome platforming experience where it constantly feels like you're just flying through these levels, and whenever enemies show up, they're only an additional opportunity to stay in the air for even longer. And that's not even getting into the boss fights, which, while not all amazing, can reach breathtaking heights - whenever I make my "Best bosses of the 2020's decade" thread, I know this game already has two very worthy contenders.

It's all too awesome, really. That's not even getting into the artistic aspect of things, which, well, I think you know how I feel about that one.

The art direction is unreal. Blind Forest already looked gorgeous, but Will of the Wisps is just... well, I don't even know how to describe it. I've never played a game this beautiful, that's something I can say with ease. The world of Nibel is so wonderful, and so detailed. Every area, every background, every character, everything pops out in a way that never feels too overdone and always just right. The use of color here is so good it made me feel like I was seeing new colors, every area sporting a combination of two or three tones that fit so perfectly with each other. When you get down to the technological side of it, seeing the insane work that went into lighting each individual asset in the game from different angles, drawing the whole game's world without copy-pasting anything, it's... I've no words for it, it's crazy.

And the music is something I've talked about plenty too, but in recent weeks I've come to understand that this isn't just one of the greatest video game soundtracks, it is the soundtrack, my absolute favorite out of all of them. All that emotion I was talking about earlier, I feel like the music is at least 50% of the reason why this game hits so hard for me. The orchestral score feels so profound and grand, it feels like the music is everywhere, even if you're listening to it in a crappy setup or small earbuds or whatever. It's a feeling I really don't know how to describe, no music's ever sounded like this to me. From the wondrous main theme, to the soothing atmospheres of Inkwater Marsh, to the mysterious tones of Kwolok's Hollow, to the epic escape and boss themes, to the deeply emotional ending (beware of spoilers here!), the music is always phenomenal - it doesn't just match the tone, it sets it. And while all of it sounds original and unique, there is one song in particular that I, as musician myself, feel is a massive achievement in music making: Shadows of Mouldwood. This track sounds like nothing I've ever heard before, not just in its production and mixing, but also in its composition. The way those strings sound, how they ascend and descend in volume and pitch, never quite keeping it in unison but never quite forming a predictable harmony, always unsettling in just the right amount... and how they then mix up with the moody piano melodies, and occasionally more percussive sounds... It's music unlike anything else that's been done, really, it's a genius track that really showcases the very best of Gareth Coker, and probably sets a new very best for him too.

It's hard to put my feelings on this game into words, which is probably why I've ended up using so many of them . This is a real work of art, a real masterpiece, a wonderful coming-of-age story with poignant moments of joy, dread, anger, and responsibility. Its themes resonate so strongly, and are so perfectly told through its wonderful art, wonderful music, and wonderful gameplay. I did have my doubts for a while with its placing on this list, and at points it felt like a toss-up with Hollow Knight and Breath of the Wild (@Platina knows), but once deciding on this ranking, it felt absolutely right, and it still does. Ori and the Will of the Wisps is just so special. It's an experience I'll never forget.

Welcome to the top 5, you lovely little spirit, long may you stay.

Top 50 >>

o.0??? Ranked above Hollow Knight? Yeah... the Ori games are getting moved way closer to the front of my backlog. Way, way closer.



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Cerebralbore101 said:
Darashiva said:

#16

The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky SC (PC)

Change YOY: =

The 4th The Legend of Heroes game on my list is Trails in the Sky SC, with one more yet to come a little bit later. The series has become one I look forward to playing more than almost any other, with only Final Fantasy and Dark Souls being higher on my list of video game franchises. The main reason for this are the story and characters in these games, which I consider among the best in all of gaming. However, the rest of the game is equally excellent, with the music and battle system being a major highlight of the game as well.

Once I'm done with the game's I'm currently working through I'm planning on going back and playing through the entire Trails in the Sky-trilogy, just to experience the who story again from the start. 

#15

Did... did you play through the entire Trails series in 2020? I swear these games weren't on your list last year.

No, the only new one from the series this year on my list is Trails of Cold Steel III. The others were all there before.



Slowly making progress here, but we'll get to the end eventually.

#7

The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky (PC)

Change YOY: =

This is the game that introduced me to The Legend of Heroes-series, and still my favourite of them all, though I am planning on going back to the Trails in the Sky games sometime this year, so that could change on my next list, but we'll see. As far as the game itself is concerned, outside of the admittedly date, though still charming, visuals, everything about the game is great in my opinion. The soundtrack is excellent, with a few tracks that are among my all-time favourite pieces of video game music, and the battle system is wonderfully deep that offers a lot of different tactical options to play around with.

Ultimately, however, the thing that makes Trails in the Sky one of my all-time favourite games is the story, and especially the characters, which are without question among the most well-written video game characters ever, at least as far as I'm concerned. From the most minor characters to the two main leads, everyone comes across as a believable and interesting person, each with their own story to learn about. If you've actually been reading this stuff I've been writing about the games on my list, you may have noticed that I place a lot of weight on story, characters and lore in games, as I genuinely believe video games can be an extremely powerful medium for storytelling, sometimes even beyond what books or films are capable of.



43. Ni No Kuni PS3


Imagine a Poke'mon game, except it's live action, and developed by RPG masters Level 5. Oh, and Studio Ghibli did the art direction, creature designs, and story. The world of Ni No Kuni is huge. It's just as big as games like Final Fantasy VI, or Dragon Quest VIII. The world is full of secrets and things to do off the beaten path, just like any PS2 era Level 5 game. The story is about a boy who accidentally causes his mother to die. He cries on his doll drippy, causing it to come to life. Drippy then informs him that the boy is from a mirror world, and that he may be able bring his mother back to life. All he has to do is find his mother's doppelganger in the mirror world. And thus begins a roughly 40 hour adventure of collecting monsters, training them up, and equipping them with weapons/armor. Instead of playing this game as a single trainer with a team of creatures, you play with a party of three trainers all at once. Different trainers give boosts to different types of creatures. The main hero buffs physical attackers. Another party member is all about casting spells. Unlike Poke'mon the game's combat system is in real time, and more like an action RPG than your standard turn based fare. Random battles are gone from this game and replaced with having to touch an enemy to start a battle. This is a big help, because one of the most annoying things about a JRPG can be the random battles that go off every 2-5 seconds, while you're trying to get your bearings in a dungeon. Anyway, this game has stuck with me all these years later. IMO it's Level 5's swan song before they wasted their time with the Yokai Watch series. If you like any Yokai games give this a shot, because most of the ideas for Yokai came from this, and this game plays infinitely better. Unlike Yokai watch there's no touch controls, and you can actually command your party members.

42. Mario Kart 8D Switch


Normally I don't like racing games at all. They are too much like sports games, with no video game fun injected into them. They just try to replicate real life, and IMO that's boring. Imagine an FPS where you take a single bullet and die. Or a cooking game where you have to wait a literal hour in game to see your cooking results. Emulating real life in games often doesn't work out at all. It's just not fun.

Luckily, Mario Kart has always been about fun over realism. The ability to shoot your opponents with shells, leave banana peels, shove them off the road, or nuke them with the Blue Shell just adds a delightful brand of chaos to what would have otherwise been another boring racing series. The rubber banding in this game series keeps the action going ensuring that nobody gets too far ahead of the pack. 

Mario Kart 8 just took the MK formula and dialed it up to 11. The graphics are honestly the best the series has ever had, and even puts many games to shame to this day. At least aesthetically. We've got more tracks, carts, and characters than ever. Now that the game can be taken on the go with Switch it represents the biggest leap in the on the go version of the series ever. 

41. Arkham Asylum


In case you haven't noticed by now, one of my favorite genres is Metroidvania. I especially like it when other games borrow heavily from this genre. So, whether you want to call Arkham Asylum a Metroidvania game or not is beside the point. I prefer this one to the sequels, simply because the tighter spaces make for more things to discover per square foot. Batman has a huge list of Gadgets in this game from plastic explosives, to zip lines, to a wide array of batarangs. You'll use a lot of these devices to get past the games stealth sections, where you are tasked with taking out every enemy without being seen. Or at least most of them without being seen. Batman isn't bulletproof and these villains are packing machineguns, so all it takes is two or three enemies aware of where you are and you are pretty much toast. There's plenty of places high above to grapple hook to, ducts to crawl in, and destroyable walls to blow up. Outside of the stealth sections you'll fight enemies that come at you with just their fists, and no guns. Lots of great villians from Batman's rogues galleries show up in this game as well. Oh, and the voice cast is straight out of the 90's animated series. So there's that. Anyway, it still holds the crown for best superhero game to date. Yes, even better than Insomniac's Spider-Man!

40. Advance Wars Dual Strike (DS) G10 G9 C9 S9 S9 L10 T10 9.4


Damn I miss this series! If Intelligent Systems ever gets tired of making Fire Emblem games, it sure would be nice for them to pay this series a visit! What makes this series so different from Fire Emblem is that your units are not unique characters in the game, and that you can buy more units mid battle. Intelligent Systems really pulled out all the stops with this entry including every single commander from the first two games, a serious commander customization system, and several new units. But, by far, what makes this game shine are the two front battles! You'll be commanding a small assault team on the top screen, while defending your main base, with another team, on the bottom screen. Neither of the two teams can have any effect on the other team's fight, but if you lose one fight you either lose them both, or the remaining fight becomes much harder. Think of how the Rebels trying to take out the Death Star's ground based shield generator effected the ship battle above, and you'll get the right idea. Different commanders in this game have different effects on units. One commander might give all helicopters a +1 movement bonus. Another commander will make your artillery and sniper units shoot farther. Every match you get to use two commanders at once in a single army.This is hands down, one of the best tactics game's I've ever played!

39. Mortal Kombat 9 PS3


Mortal Kombat, otherwise known as MK9 brought the series to an all time high. Deadly Alliance, and Deception were great games, but ditched the 2D of the series roots. The first thing MK9 did right was going back to 2D style fighting. Adding the meter system introduced in Super Street Fighter 2 was a great change for the series as well. The visible and gory damage that each fighter built up to their character model, as the fight progressed was great too. Finally, the roster was almost entirely series veterans. Those lame characters introduced in Deception and Deadly Alliance didn't make it over to MK9. This was the last Mortal Kombat game that didn't heavily abuse gross cash-grab tactics. MKX took game-ready characters and threw them onto two $30 season passes. MK11 went even further by locking 20% of the roster behind DLC or pre-orders, and locking costumes behind insane grind, meant to sent you spending even more money on microtransactions. Mortal Kombat is a legendary fighting series and MK9 is hands down the best one. Normally, I'm against companies being bought, but damn I want MS or somebody to just buy WB games already. That way the series can go back to being a game that doesn't bully you for every nickel you have. The Mortal Kombat series is dead to me, thanks to all the MTX in the new games. As someone that started playing MK games when he was 8 this hurts the very core of my soul.

 

 



@mZuzek I changed the position of Okami from #38 to #35 in my list, will this change still count?



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3

Super Mario 64

  • Nintendo 64, Nintendo DS
  • 1997
  • Guessed by UnderwaterFunktown

A big part of why the 5th Generation of video games was great is due to this game. You can consider it the ancestor of basically all the 3D games since. Sadly though, none really beat is since either. As a first attempt, Nintendo really knocked it out of the park.

The game's concept I great; the castle hub-world that leads to plenty of open world sandbox levels through paintings scattered throughout the castle, where you will have to find a set of Power Stars needed to unlock the final level and the battle with Bowser. This is so accessible, imaginative and immersive.

People like to complain about how the camera is supposed to be this archaic monstrosity, but the reality is, that it's easy to control, and works better than in plenty of new games. But like I said it does a lot of things better than newer games. For all intents and purposes, this is what a video game is meant to be, it succeeds in every aspect.

2

Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic

  • Windows PC, Mobile
  • 2003
  • Guessed by UnderwaterFunktown

During the 6th Generation of video games, I was in a rough spot. The previous generation was everything anyone could ever have dreamed off, but here now we were at a point where most of the ideas had dried up some years into the generation. I loved the SEGA Dreamcast, but it sadly died just about one-and-a-half year in. It had already killed my interest in a PlayStation 2, and Nintendo had dropped the ball by releasing less than enthusiastic entries in their most important series.

So I turned to the PC. Or rather, I returned to the PC. There I found a renewed joy in video games. There was plenty to play, and most importantly plenty of new experiences. On PC, new entries to series and franchises I adored actually were worthy successors, and would grow to become some of my favourites. The biggest of all of those was in the Star Wars franchise, my old crush. Luckily, console gaming won me back in the 7th Generation just a few years later, and now a more healthy harmony exists.

1

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

  • Nintendo 64, GameCube, Nintendo 3DS
  • 1998
  • Guessed by Mnementh

One game has got to be the greatest of them all. The greatest game ever created. And surely it is Ocarina of Time. Even after many new games in and out of the Zelda series have released, none have topped it. This has been my favourite game from pretty much the moment it released.

There were plenty of games that had an impact on me during my lifetime, and I mentioned them in my list; Rebel Assault II and it being an introduction to one of my favourite things ever. SimTower and it sparking my interest in builder games. A Link to the Past and it's rainy intro that is etched into my mind. Anno 1602 and it giving me endless multiplayer fun. The countless hours of RollerCoaster Tycoon 2. Even my final memory of my family being together playing Mario Kart 64.

Those things are all less important than the way Ocarina of Time impacted me. This game is so memorable, I can drum up every square centimetre of this game, and hum every song instantly. This game feels like it as specifically made for me personally. As if a description of me was right there next to the drawing board of the designers. This game has everything I need in a game, and it is the only game I'd give a percent score, because that's what it is.

So there's all 50 of my list.

Adding up all the guesses, this is the result;

Mnementh 9
The_Liquid_Laser 7
UnderwaterFunktown 6
drbunnig 5
Jpcc86 4
Bofferbrauer2 3
TruckOsaurus 2
Darashiva 2
Kantor 2
Ka-pi96 1
Runa216 1
Unguessed 8

Thanks you for all your guesses, also those that were wrong!

And lastly, happy New Year!

Last edited by S.Peelman - on 01 January 2021

38. Fallout 3 PC


No, I haven't played New Vegas yet. The PS3 version was an unplayable bugfest, so I haven't been able to try until now. Anyway, Fallout 3 is the best of all the Bethesda developed RPGs. Oblivion and Skyrim dumbed down the Bethesda formula by getting rid of a lot of skills or just flat out dropping attributes. Fallout 4 simplified everything in the leveling system, cutting perk choices in half. But Fallout 3? Yeah, that game lets you create a character with detailed stats and a massive variety of perks to choose from. The Pit, Broken Steel, and Point lookout were all beefy DLCs that made a big game even bigger. Honestly, I can't think of DLC that big since, except for the Witcher 3's DLC packs. I loved the VATs system allowing you to slow down time and take out individual body parts on enemies.  This game has kind of aged a little in the graphics department the last few years. Too much brown, and too many muddy textures. You can't run the game past 60 FPS without breaking it either, and I hear the steam version runs like ass. Play the GoG version on a decent PC with graphics turned up to 11. IMO the console and Steam versions are unplayable messes in 2020.

37. SubNautica PC



Minecraft pretty much started the build/craft/survive genre. Other games like Stardew Valley, and Starbound took it further. Subnautica takes the concept and sends you to the unfamiliar locale of an alien planet, covered almost entirely in ocean. In Subnautica you have a meter for hunger, hydration, heat, cold, and pressure. These meters need to be controlled or else you'll die. I still remember frantically trying to keep my hydration meter up in a world where I was surrounded by water. That is, until I found a certain fish that let me filter saltwater into regular water. In Subnautica you craft things to build things to craft more things. The game starts you out with a lifepod from your crashed spaceship, a PDA, and a fabricator. The fabricator is a device that deconstructs whatever you put into it, and then builds something new out of the components. Eventually you'll get to build giant underwater bases, better scuba tanks, and different power generating stations. You'll need all these things to not only survive the world of Subnautica, but to delve deeper and deeper into the oceans, in search of a way offworld.

And what a world Subnautica is. There are all sorts of creepy crawlies waiting to attack you from the depths. The deeper you go the more surreal and alien the life becomes. Each new biome sends you into a darker, scarier, part of the ocean looking for precious ore to fix your ship, or build new supplies. The deeper you go into the ocean the more pressure builds up, and the more you need to be careful that your diving suit won't be crushed like a tin can.

Subnautica makes this list for being stupidly unique, cool, and scary.

36. Majora's Mask N64


Majora's Mask started out as my most hated Zelda game. We went from Ocarina of Time with 8+ dungeons to this with only 4 dungeons. That made the game feel lazily developed, to my 16 year old eyes. But as time went on a few things happened that made this game better and better, in hindsight. It became clear that Ocarina was once in a lifetime game that was virtually impossible to top. I also realized that Majora's Mask only had a year and half development time. Finally, with the releases of Windwaker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword it was clear that Majora's Mask was unique and special in a lot of ways. The intricate time travel system, where you had to relive the same three days was brilliant. Characters in this game had their own schedules, and lives. So if you wanted to get a certain mask or piece of heart you had to visit different places at different times, using time travel to get items and unlock events that you normally wouldn't be able to get without time travel. For example: Let's say the postman delivers a letter on the 1st day, but he will only give that letter up if you have an item that can be obtained on the 2nd day of the game. But that item in turn requires another item that needs you to wait until a certain someone has left their house on an errand on the 1st day, right when the postman is delivering the letter that you so badly want! Being able to transform into each of the three different races in the Zelda universe made each dungeon unique. Honestly it was basically Super Mario Odyssey's mechanic only 17 years sooner. Every time you put on a mask to turn into a race you were effectively in a different body than your own. Then there was the ridiculously dark story, and the fact that you were in a parralell dimension to Hyrule. So you got to see doppleganger versions of all the traditional Zelda characters. This gave the writers more free reign to write the story that they wanted, and not another "defeat Ganon" story. It worked out extremely well!

35. Paper Mario TTYD GameCube


This is the best of all the Mario RPG games. That includes all of the AlphaDream games, the Square Enix game, and the regular Paper Mario games. Why is it so good? For starters it has a wonderful cast of interesting characters. You'd think the Mushroom Kingdom would be full of mostly nothing but Toads. Nope. We've got a booksmart Goomba, a timid Koopa, and a newly hatched Yoshi, as well as other interesting and colorful characters, in Mario's RPG party. All of these characters have goals of their own, and personalities of their own. 

The game's pacing is excellent. I never felt like the game was stalling for time with it's battles. Like Chrono Trigger, Paper Mario TTYD has just enough enemy encounters to keep you interested without overstaying its welcome. The battle system is also fantastic since you can hit buttons during battle to increase damage.


Paper Mario TTYD is something like $80 in this day and age. Let that sink in. Yeah. People know this game is good. People are willing to pay $80 for an old GameCube game. Play this one anyway you can, and when you're done give Bug Fables a whirl!

34. KotOR PC

I love KotOR for so many reasons! The battle system is so close to DnD that min/maxing matters a lot, making for a deep customization system. The story and worldbuilding is one of the few examples of post 80's Star Wars done right. New takes on the Star Wars franchise often completely miss the mark. KotOR has the classic Jedi vs Sith story, and the gadgets that look time worn. The world of KotOR looks lived in. The locales are just as interesting as Hoth, Bespin, or Dagobah. The same seedy underworld element is there. These things are all missing from the prequel trilogy or the new movies, or most post 80's Star Wars media in general. Then there's the ability to play as the bad guy! I have to admit that I've never beaten KotOR as a good guy. I've always, always been evil! It's just so fun, and HK47 is hilarious everytime I replay through this game! Bioware's habit of letting the player be as good or evil as they want was groundbreaking at the time, and to be honest it's still great fun. 

 

33. Neir Automata PS4


Yoko Taro, and Keiichi Okabe, teamed up with Platinum games to create this masterpiece. Previous Neir games were great with the story, and sound, (thanks to Yoko's writing, and Keiichi's music) but sucked with the actual gameplay. Bringing Platinum on fixed this with Automata. The game is just as good of a hack n' slash as any of Platinum's other games, but it also includes heavy RPG elements thanks to Square's input. This game's story is about human made Androids, and Alien built machines engaging in a proxy war for earth. Not all of the Machines want to fight, and not all of the Androids have been told the truth about the mission to take back earth for humanity. The game's story is excellent for two reasons. First, it explores a ton of philosophical ideas like whether or not machines can be truly sentient. Second, the game can be replayed with different characters for different endings. In fact, the game demands that you uncover every ending in order to get the true and final ending in the game. This means not only beating the game with every character, but beating the game with the same characters in multiple ways. The game shatters the 4th wall by asking you to do the unthinkable in order to leave a lasting mark on somebody else's save file. The music in this game is flat out the best I've heard in a videogame! Just give the below a listen!

 



mZuzek said:
Link_Nines.XBC said:

@mZuzek I changed the position of Okami from #38 to #35 in my list, will this change still count?

If you've updated your post on the Official Thread, yeah. Also, glad to see Okami getting more points!

Nice

And Okami is indeed such an amazing game.



32. Persona 5 Royal PS4

I've played other SMT style games before. Most recently SMT IV on the 3DS. Personally, I'm more of a fan of pure dungeon crawling, but the story of Persona 5 was just too good not to make this list. You start out as a kid that has been given probation for a crime he was innocent of. You have to go to a new high school, in another city, and live in some old grump's attic. Then on your first day of school you take a wrong turn into someone else's mind. Yeah, the dungeons in this game are the minds of other people. And not just ordinary people. People that are sick and twisted enough to use their positions to abuse everybody else. If you beat the mind-dungeon you wind up changing that person's mind causing them to confess all their crimes, or have some other sort of mental breakdown. The theme of the game is that all these different deranged people in real life are using their position to abuse teenagers. The very first villain in the game is a teacher that heaps sexual abuse on the female students and physical abuse on the male students of your high school.  Don't worry, no spoilers here. Everything I've said so far can be found in the first hour of the game.


In case you haven't played an SMT game before, you are tasked with fighting and collecting (ala Poke'mon) all sorts of legendary and mythical beings. Pretty much every god, demon, spirit, or cryptid animal is up for capture and training. These capturable, and battleable entities from human myth are called personas. The main character can hold up to 12 personas in his inventory switching between them during battles. Your party members each have their own persona that stays with them throughout the game. You can fuse two or more personas together to create a new persona. This fusing is a huge part of the game. For example if you fuse a fire demon with a dog you might get the legendary Cerberus. Or if you fuse a mummy with a fairy you might get Cleopatra. Whenever you fuse personas together you get a chance to have the new persona inherit skills and abilities from the old personas. So it's kind of like being able to fuse a Charizard with a Venusaur, and then winding up with a Poke'mon that knows Flamethrower, and Vine Whip.



What makes the Persona sub-series different from other SMT games is that there's a ton of different things to do outside of battling. In fact I'd say the game is 70% hanging out with friends (and doing chores), and 30% dungeon crawling. You're basically tasked with leading two lives. One as a Phantom Thief trying to fix the minds of corrupted adults, and one as a regular teenager holding down a part time job, doing homework, and going out on dates. Eventually your double-lives wind up crashing into each other in spectacular fashion.

I really don't have much else to say about this game. I always knew a Persona game would someday make my list. I guess this is that kind of year. Beware though, because Persona 5 is LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNGGG! It took me 170 hours to beat the game. But then again I'm a completionist bastard so you might have better luck.

Oh yeah... the main battle theme kicks ass.



31. Ninja Gaiden Sigma PS3 

The first truly difficult hack n' slash! I remember playing Ninja Gaiden on Xbox dying fifty times to the Samurai Horseman boss. I was up until 4am fighting this bastard. Part of me wanted to just put the game away for good. Another part of me was determined to get revenge on the bastard for all my deaths. The game wouldn't let me progress without mastering two things. First I had to remember which attacks were blockable, and which were better off being dodged. Some attacks in the game were heavy attacks. Blocking too many of those attacks in a row would cause Ryu to stumble. Other attacks were too fast to be dodged, so you needed to block. Second, the game demanded I learn how to absorb enemy essence in order to quick charge an Ultimate attack. This meant killing smaller enemies that were backing up the main Horselord boss, while still dodging and blocking attacks coming from the main boss. Eventually everything clicked and the boss went down easily. This was just one example of how the game demanded you learn more advanced techniques or die. In 2004 this demand was new and innovative. It wouldn't be until 2011's Dark Souls that this level of "You had better learn to play this game" resurfaced. The PS3 Version is the best version with a ton of new enemies, and secrets to discover.

30. Horizon Zero Dawn PS4


Ahh Horizon. It's basically Monster Hunter meets Skyrim meets Uncharted. This game ranks so high on my list, because the enemies are an absolute blast to fight. There's nothing quite like running from a giant robot T-Rex as it crushes trees on it's way to kill you. The combat is fast and frantic, while managing to be strategic at the same time. Planning out what traps to set up before a fight means a lot in this game. And did I mention those trees have full blown destruction animations? This game is gorgeous both from a technical and design standpoint. The only flaw is the automated, stilted animations when talking to NPCs. Oh, and the mountains that can't really be traversed very well.

29. Okami PS2



Nintendo let Capcom work on a few handheld Zelda titles back in the day. Those games were innovative for the series due to having weapons that strayed from the norm of the Zelda series. So what does Capcom decide to do after Minish Cap? Well they started making their own Zelda clone, and it wound up being a gorgeous classic. It really is amazing how good a traditional Zelda game can be once you wipe the slate clean and start over. This dropped 10 spots on my list this year for some reason. I think it held such a high spot for so long because Breath of the Wild came along and stole its crown for innovative Zelda-Style game. And in the shadow of BotW it just doesn't seem as much of an amazing game as I once thought it was.