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Forums - Politics Discussion - Right and left wing games

LOL

That's all I have to say about that.



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Dante9 said:
Mnementh said:

Oliver North isn't just any military dude, he is one of the key figures in the Iran-Contra affair. As that is one of the biggest foreign politics blunders of the second half of the last century, I would say that is pretty much a very sensitive political topic. Having business with Oliver North back then is as shady as having some with Epstein in the past few years. It was discussion how much the Reagan-administration was involved in the deal, but one thing is pretty clear: Oliver North was involved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North

As for Americas Army: I directly said it doesn't fit into right or left wing scheme. Because as much as that might surprise you, a lot of politic issues don't directly fit into dems vs. reps or right vs. left wing. But propaganda for the american military and their causes is clearly political.

Yup, North was a shady character in that regard. Does that mean that we should pretend he did not exist, when making a war game set in the eighties? What's your point here? Do you think the developers are trying to push some kind of agenda by having North in the game?

America's Army is military propaganda, yes, but that's a fringe phenomenon. I can't think of any other faction than the military that has to toot their own horn like this. Seems pretty harmless, albeit political in the sense that they want to justify their existence and promote recruitment. It's not like, say, a Dark Souls character suddenly lecturing you about the need for military funding. Something comparable to that has sometimes popped up from the left in certain games.

This is the second time you've vaguely gestured at the idea of left wing politics being lectured to you in games so now I'm curious. What left wing idea was lectured to you in what game? Only thing I can think of that is usually thought of in that light is when minority characters (either by race, sexual orientation, or gender) are included in a game, but that's not really what I would think of as a lecture since they are usually just existing. What games are stopping the story to lecture you about the need for an improved social safety net or how the electoral college is bullshit because it goes against the will of the popular vote? 



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Haha, FFVII is on right and FFVII is on the left! This is definitely a funny joke.



Torillian said:
Dante9 said:

Yup, North was a shady character in that regard. Does that mean that we should pretend he did not exist, when making a war game set in the eighties? What's your point here? Do you think the developers are trying to push some kind of agenda by having North in the game?

America's Army is military propaganda, yes, but that's a fringe phenomenon. I can't think of any other faction than the military that has to toot their own horn like this. Seems pretty harmless, albeit political in the sense that they want to justify their existence and promote recruitment. It's not like, say, a Dark Souls character suddenly lecturing you about the need for military funding. Something comparable to that has sometimes popped up from the left in certain games.

This is the second time you've vaguely gestured at the idea of left wing politics being lectured to you in games so now I'm curious. What left wing idea was lectured to you in what game? Only thing I can think of that is usually thought of in that light is when minority characters (either by race, sexual orientation, or gender) are included in a game, but that's not really what I would think of as a lecture since they are usually just existing. What games are stopping the story to lecture you about the need for an improved social safety net or how the electoral college is bullshit because it goes against the will of the popular vote? 

You're right, this thing only pops up with regards to minority representation and I have to say that most of the time I have no complaints about it, it's done very organically, like a normal thing so as not to stand out or take you out of the story. Even the things that come to mind right now are not huge, game breaking things, but they just take you out of it a little, like blatant product placement in a movie or something like that. Just a minor nuisance that the the thing could do without.

One of the oldest things I can recall is Dragon Age series. In the first one, half of the party members are bi. In the second one, *all* of them are bi except one DLC character. In Inquisition, half were either gay or bi, plus there was another character who would give you a rundown of his trans experience, and it all started to feel a little like an agenda. You know? A very contemporary, political streak in a fantasy adventure. Either the main hero always manages to randomly recruit at least half of his crew from the more rare orientations, or then heterosexuals are actually a minority in Thedas. Which would be fine by me, fantasy worlds don't need to abide by real world statistics. Anyways, I wasn't really annoyed, rather a little amused if anything but the whole thing jumped off the story and the setting just a tad. Surely in this fantastical world they would be beyond such things, like disapproving parents and such? Too obvious a reach to the contemporary.

Another one that comes to mind right now was the side character that was trans in Mass Effect Andromeda. She would would start giving you intricate details of her trans past just like that, which didn't feel natural. This actually managed to rile up the trans community as well, so Bioware had to patch the character to tone it down a little. A classic backfiring when trying to pander instead of presenting things organically.

The latest thing I guess is The Last of Us 2. Again, this was a little stupid because the first game handled it so perfectly. In that, we found out that Ellie was gay and that Bill was gay but it all came about so naturally, without a song and a dance. They were presented the same way as straight characters, just normally. Well, the Ellie thing did come in the DLC and felt a little like an afterthought because her sexuality didn't come up in the main game at all and the DLC was mainly about that, but whatever. In any case, by the time Part 2 arrived, most people already knew Ellie was gay and it was a non issue, she was a beloved character as she was.

But then there was the stereotypical jerk straight guy who got drunk and started giving Ellie and Dina a hard time and he had to be put in his place. Ellie wouldn't even accept his apology the following day and refused to eat the "bigot sandwiches" that he made as a peace offering. That felt a little on the nose and petty. Then there were the pride flags in the middle of a zombie apocalypse. Just little things that feel a bit like trying too hard. Come on, there's no need to declare your stance on contemporary things so desperately. Surely the fact that you have a gay main character, whose romantic life is portrayed just as intricately and mundanely as the heterosexual portrayals have always been, should be clear enough. Naughty Dog, we know you are good guys, don't try so hard.

I'm not sure if I'm managing to put across what I mean with these things and I'm not out here to offend anyone. I'm very liberal myself and I just think that there are good and not so good ways to do these things and sometimes even good intentions can come out a little wonky.



Dante9 said:
Torillian said:

This is the second time you've vaguely gestured at the idea of left wing politics being lectured to you in games so now I'm curious. What left wing idea was lectured to you in what game? Only thing I can think of that is usually thought of in that light is when minority characters (either by race, sexual orientation, or gender) are included in a game, but that's not really what I would think of as a lecture since they are usually just existing. What games are stopping the story to lecture you about the need for an improved social safety net or how the electoral college is bullshit because it goes against the will of the popular vote? 

You're right, this thing only pops up with regards to minority representation and I have to say that most of the time I have no complaints about it, it's done very organically, like a normal thing so as not to stand out or take you out of the story. Even the things that come to mind right now are not huge, game breaking things, but they just take you out of it a little, like blatant product placement in a movie or something like that. Just a minor nuisance that the the thing could do without.

One of the oldest things I can recall is Dragon Age series. In the first one, half of the party members are bi. In the second one, *all* of them are bi except one DLC character. In Inquisition, half were either gay or bi, plus there was another character who would give you a rundown of his trans experience, and it all started to feel a little like an agenda. You know? A very contemporary, political streak in a fantasy adventure. Either the main hero always manages to randomly recruit at least half of his crew from the more rare orientations, or then heterosexuals are actually a minority in Thedas. Which would be fine by me, fantasy worlds don't need to abide by real world statistics. Anyways, I wasn't really annoyed, rather a little amused if anything but the whole thing jumped off the story and the setting just a tad. Surely in this fantastical world they would be beyond such things, like disapproving parents and such? Too obvious a reach to the contemporary.

Another one that comes to mind right now was the side character that was trans in Mass Effect Andromeda. She would would start giving you intricate details of her trans past just like that, which didn't feel natural. This actually managed to rile up the trans community as well, so Bioware had to patch the character to tone it down a little. A classic backfiring when trying to pander instead of presenting things organically.

The latest thing I guess is The Last of Us 2. Again, this was a little stupid because the first game handled it so perfectly. In that, we found out that Ellie was gay and that Bill was gay but it all came about so naturally, without a song and a dance. They were presented the same way as straight characters, just normally. Well, the Ellie thing did come in the DLC and felt a little like an afterthought because her sexuality didn't come up in the main game at all and the DLC was mainly about that, but whatever. In any case, by the time Part 2 arrived, most people already knew Ellie was gay and it was a non issue, she was a beloved character as she was.

But then there was the stereotypical jerk straight guy who got drunk and started giving Ellie and Dina a hard time and he had to be put in his place. Ellie wouldn't even accept his apology the following day and refused to eat the "bigot sandwiches" that he made as a peace offering. That felt a little on the nose and petty. Then there were the pride flags in the middle of a zombie apocalypse. Just little things that feel a bit like trying too hard. Come on, there's no need to declare your stance on contemporary things so desperately. Surely the fact that you have a gay main character, whose romantic life is portrayed just as intricately and mundanely as the heterosexual portrayals have always been, should be clear enough. Naughty Dog, we know you are good guys, don't try so hard.

I'm not sure if I'm managing to put across what I mean with these things and I'm not out here to offend anyone. I'm very liberal myself and I just think that there are good and not so good ways to do these things and sometimes even good intentions can come out a little wonky.

And this is why the dichotomy of left-wing and right-wing games seems so skewed. Under this idea what would then be a right-wing game? One in which there were disproportionately low number of LGBT people? Even if a game had 30-40 characters they would all have to be known to be definitely straight which usually won't come up. If someone is up front and in your face about their standard life while straight does that make it right-wing? Basically, it's easy to say that only left-wing games are preachy when all it requires is that LGBT people are visible and there's no corollary on the right-wing. But then I guess that's the way it'll always seem in media when one side is progressive and the other is conservative. Not really changing anything is always going to seem less intrusive. 



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vivster said:
OneTime said:
If you blindly limit yourself to only one political group's ideas you're guaranteed to be wrong 50% of the time...

True in some countries, absolutely untrue in most. Moderate groups will be right 80% of the time while extremist groups will be wrong 80% of the time.

Sounds like bullshit coming straight from /r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM/

Ew. Please don't link to Reddit politics. I had a big breakfast and would like to keep it down.



SanAndreasX said:
Did I see the original FF7 listed under right wing, but FF7R listed as left wing? Pretty sure that the original game had some pretty left wing politics, given that the bad guys were a fictional amalgamation of TEPCO and the Japanese government.

Group of eco terrorists with a trans leader taking down a large corporation and a literal RIGHT-WINGED God.

Final Fantasy VII was woke before everyone even knew it.



How about Wing Commander? Or Flight Simulator? These games surely are both left and right wing, otherwise how would the player keep the aircraft in the air?

This is the worst I could come up with and it's still not half as terrible as the pic in the OP.



Having a hard time seeing what’s Left and Right wing? Just follow the outrage lol.

Last of Us 2 is left due to conservative backlash for being anti men. Cyberpunk is right wing due to all the left wing backlash Where a dev sent a joke tweet saying “did you just assume a gender”. Next thing you know left wing journalists are crying for boycotts.

Battlefield 5 is left wing due to backlash that a war amp female was on the front lines in a WW2 based game. Kingdom Come is right wing because  the Left was outraged that the dev didn’t shoehorn in racial diversity in 1400s rural Europe lol. 

Etc etc etc. The OP list is just hilarious though. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 15 October 2020

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