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Forums - Sales - If the N64 had a CD-ROM Drive, would've Nintendo won the generation in sales?

 

If N64 had a CD-ROM Drive, would've Nintendo won the generation in sales?

Yes 39 50.00%
 
No 39 50.00%
 
Total:78

I think the cartridge factor is pretty overrated when it comes to the N64's relative floundering compared to PS1. I think the weird controller played a role, the lack of diversity in and quantity of the library, and the fact that EVERYTHING had to be 3D just about played a significant role. Though I suppose you could make the argument that the console would have had more third party support (and thus more games) if Nintendo adopted the CD format. Still, ultimately the games are what matter, not so much the media. 



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

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DarthMetalliCube said:

I think the cartridge factor is pretty overrated when it comes to the N64's relative floundering compared to PS1. I think the weird controller played a role, the lack of diversity in and quantity of the library, and the fact that EVERYTHING had to be 3D just about played a significant role. Though I suppose you could make the argument that the console would have had more third party support (and thus more games) if Nintendo adopted the CD format. Still, ultimately the games are what matter, not so much the media. 

That makes no sense. The media matters when it prevents likely hundreds of games from being on the platform. 

If Nintendo had used CD-ROM the N64 would not have had any droughts and likely doesn't lose Squaresoft or Enix as there isn't much incentive for them to leave.

Sony has no chance if they weren't allowed to basically poach all of Nintendo's NES/SNES support and that only happens because of the format choice. 



Soundwave said:
DarthMetalliCube said:

I think the cartridge factor is pretty overrated when it comes to the N64's relative floundering compared to PS1. I think the weird controller played a role, the lack of diversity in and quantity of the library, and the fact that EVERYTHING had to be 3D just about played a significant role. Though I suppose you could make the argument that the console would have had more third party support (and thus more games) if Nintendo adopted the CD format. Still, ultimately the games are what matter, not so much the media. 

That makes no sense. The media matters when it prevents likely hundreds of games from being on the platform. 

If Nintendo had used CD-ROM the N64 would not have had any droughts and likely doesn't lose Squaresoft or Enix as there isn't much incentive for them to leave.

Sony has no chance if they weren't allowed to basically poach all of Nintendo's NES/SNES support and that only happens because of the format choice. 

Saturn had CD Rom. Hell 3DO, CD-i, and Neo Geo CD did. why weren't they successful?

Not that media format wasn't a factor, but it's a vastly overrated one. 

Sony was poised for victory regardless. Sega had completely shot themselves in the foot by the mid-90s and Nintendo's lack of software, steep prices, and harsh third party restrictions set the conditions for another company to swoop in and disrupt the industry.

Maybe the dominance wouldn't have been as significant but they still would have come out on top - between the low price for their hardware, far looser third party restrictions, and the massive quantity and diversity of the library. Third parties were looking for a console that they could play a larger role in and have more leverage and Sony offered that with the Playstation. Nintendo did not. 



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

d21lewis said:
Soundwave said:

People really don't understand either that circa 1995/1996, "Playstation" is nothing close to what it is now. It was not a very established brand.

As mentioned above the SNES was outselling it and the N64 demolished its early sales. In Japan the Saturn was beating the Playstation.

Things started to shift dramatically around late '96/'97 when it became clear Nintendo didn't have the games they were famous for.

That's the other thing you have to understand about this time period, pre-1997 "Nintendo = all games". Not just Nintendo games. Nintendo systems meant Final Fantasy, Street Fighter, Castlevania, Ninja Turtles, Megaman, and all the major 3rd party games, that's all people knew until then. The idea of a Nintendo system without these games was a foreign concept.

Before that really it was not uncommon at all for a person to have maybe Mario for the NES, but no other Nintendo published games. My neighbor had SMB/Duck Hunt, but outside of that all his games were 3rd party -- Megaman 3, Tecmo Bowl, Duck Tales, Ninja Gaiden. That wasn't uncommon at all.  

I was one of them. Almost. I got my hands on Nintendo games from time to time but, until smb3, the games I played always felt like the worst. I was mainly a fan of the third party stuff. Capcom and Konami and Sunsoft dominated by childhood.

In those days really to be honest no one really delineated third party games and first party games ... everything was just "Nintendo games". In my house, Mario was obviously a huuuuuuge deal, but games like Megaman 2 and Contra/Super C got just as much play time. 

But just to give some insight, you have to understand that a Nintendo system not having tons of games, tons of support, and even software droughts was somewhat shocking for the N64, because the NES/SNES/Game Boy were all the gold standard for developer support until that point. 

That might be something hard to someone to grasp who grew up after the mid-1990s. 



DarthMetalliCube said:
Soundwave said:

That makes no sense. The media matters when it prevents likely hundreds of games from being on the platform. 

If Nintendo had used CD-ROM the N64 would not have had any droughts and likely doesn't lose Squaresoft or Enix as there isn't much incentive for them to leave.

Sony has no chance if they weren't allowed to basically poach all of Nintendo's NES/SNES support and that only happens because of the format choice. 

Saturn had CD Rom. Hell 3DO, CD-i, and Neo Geo CD did. why weren't they successful?

Not that media format wasn't a factor, but it's a vastly overrated one. 

Sony was poised for victory regardless. Sega had completely shot themselves in the foot by the mid-90s and Nintendo's lack of software, steep prices, and harsh third party restrictions set the conditions for another company to swoop in and disrupt the industry.

Maybe the dominance wouldn't have been as significant but they still would have come out on top - between the low price for their hardware, far looser third party restrictions, and the massive quantity and diversity of the library. Third parties were looking for a console that they could play a larger role in and have more leverage and Sony offered that with the Playstation. Nintendo did not. 

Saturn had the most fucked launch in console history. They launched it the same day they announced it (Saturnday) and for $100 more than PS1 and the same year they launched 32X. Saturn also had 2 processors to worry about and was insanely difficult to work on. Saturn also had SEGA of America in shambles as SOA and SOJ not getting along finally blew up after several years.  Saturn was criticized for having a cartridge slot and not BC with Genesis. Saturn's SOA president prevented RPGs coming west and outright said it's not SEGA's future. He left hundreds of games to stay in Japan. Saturn didn't use polygons it used quads making it extra difficult. Saturn vanished from most store shelves in the US by late 96-97.

Neo-Geo CD was a niche product as was any Neo-Geo system. It was just ports of AES games which were 2D games. CD-I was a POS and was $700 in 1990.  3D0 same issue as CD-i just in 1993, peak 16-bit er. Latter two also had just fucked hardware and no standards esp when it came to the size, who made it. Controllers. Square who was basically 2nd party to Nintendo jumped to PS1 because of CD-Rom.  Many 3rd parties did. 32MB-64MB compared to 650MB. Big difference. Remember all those RPGs on 3-4 discs?

Last edited by Leynos - on 04 September 2020

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@Leynos: You're about the Saturn launch, Sega's failings had nothing to do with the hardware, but their bad business decisions - just like Nintendo's. You could say N64 launch was even worse than Saturn's, as N64 launched two years late.

Saturn did use polygons, the difference between it and PS and N64 is, that Saturn made polygons with 4 lines instead of 3.

@Soundwave: Yes, Playstation wasn't a known brand in mid-90's, but Sony managed to make contracts with 3rd parties, that weren't possible with Sega and Nintendo.

If N64 had been out a year earlier, you'd seen the 1997-1998 Playstation 3rd party hits on N64 in 1996-1997. Apparently N64 was even delayed for Miyamoto to finish Super Mario 64, that likely pissed off the 3rd parties - they wanted to earn money, but Nintendo did not want to launch the system, that caused The 3rd parties potential losses.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

What contacts did Sony make? You guys act like they discovered Squaresoft and Capcom and Konami, lol. These companies were making a fortune for Nintendo and were closely associated with Nintendo for over a decade before Sony showed up.

It's like saying Vanilla Ice created hip hop/rap music, lol.

They simply just took Nintendo's developer support that was closely tied to the NES/SNES-eras because Nintendo made the dumb mistake of not using the CD format, which was a shock to everyone.

Like I can speak for it because I was actually interested in the game industry as a kid at that time, in those days this was even pre-internet connection for most people I'd go to a book store every 2 weeks to check up on their video game magazines and I still remember to this day reading that Project: Reality (Ultra 64/N64) would not use CD-ROM and I damn near dropped the magazine out of shock. I remember having to re-read it like 4 or 5 times to make sure it wasn't a mistake.



Soundwave said:
What contacts did Sony make? You guys act like they discovered Squaresoft and Capcom and Konami, lol. These companies were making a fortune for Nintendo and were closely associated with Nintendo for over a decade before Sony showed up.

It's like saying Vanilla Ice created hip hop/rap music, lol.

They simply just took Nintendo's developer support that was closely tied to the NES/SNES-eras because Nintendo made the dumb mistake of not using the CD format, which was a shock to everyone.

Like I can speak for it because I was actually interested in the game industry as a kid at that time, in those days this was even pre-internet connection for most people I'd go to a book store every 2 weeks to check up on their video game magazines and I still remember to this day reading that Project: Reality (Ultra 64/N64) would not use CD-ROM and I damn near dropped the magazine out of shock. I remember having to re-read it like 4 or 5 times to make sure it wasn't a mistake.

Sega used CDs as well - that ended up bad. This does not mean CD's did not have anything to do with 3rd party support, but it was one of the least problems. If games had sold on N64, they had been on N64. If they had sold on Saturn, they had been on Saturn.

The problem is, that Nintendo and Sega had high requirements for the developers that Sony did not. The Playstation library was puke at least for the first two years in it's life, because Sony did not have the same requirements. If you wanted to make a launch game for N64 (for 1996), you needed to be in the "Dream team" of selected developers to do that - and as a publisher, how should have you waited for the release, as you already had two systems out in 1994 (and two more in 1993, though nobody was interested in them), that you could start developing games for after their release - and still have your game out there before N64.

CD-ROM was kind of unimpressive at the time (and still is), so I was quite happy with N64 not having a CD-drive. Moreso after playing Playstation that had incredible loading times.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

DarthMetalliCube said:
Soundwave said:

That makes no sense. The media matters when it prevents likely hundreds of games from being on the platform. 

If Nintendo had used CD-ROM the N64 would not have had any droughts and likely doesn't lose Squaresoft or Enix as there isn't much incentive for them to leave.

Sony has no chance if they weren't allowed to basically poach all of Nintendo's NES/SNES support and that only happens because of the format choice. 

Saturn had CD Rom. Hell 3DO, CD-i, and Neo Geo CD did. why weren't they successful?

Not that media format wasn't a factor, but it's a vastly overrated one. 

Sony was poised for victory regardless. Sega had completely shot themselves in the foot by the mid-90s and Nintendo's lack of software, steep prices, and harsh third party restrictions set the conditions for another company to swoop in and disrupt the industry.

Maybe the dominance wouldn't have been as significant but they still would have come out on top - between the low price for their hardware, far looser third party restrictions, and the massive quantity and diversity of the library. Third parties were looking for a console that they could play a larger role in and have more leverage and Sony offered that with the Playstation. Nintendo did not. 

It's pretty well established what happened to these systems.  Sega had burned relationships with developers, retailers and consumers with the expensive and under supported 32X add on for the Genesis right before the Saturn's release.  The cherry on top was Sega bumping up the Saturn's launch date without giving prior notice to retailers and developers.

The Saturn and the NEO GEO CD were both $399.  I feel like too few people remember what a bombshell it was when Sony announced the price point of the PlayStation would just be "$299" moments after Sega's E3 presentation ended with Saturn's announced price being $399.

Speaking of launch prices, 3DO launched at $699.  That would be like Sony releasing the PS5 today at $1,275.  How many consoles do you think they would sell?

Everyone here is mentioning Nintendo's lack of software for the N64 as the reason Sony's Playstation dominated the gen.  Yet somehow, at the same time, are completely ignoring that the N64 being a cartridge based system was the biggest contributing factor to that software drought.  We have interviews with executives at Square who came out and confirmed this.  It's like people are acknowledging the symptoms of the illness, but are completely ignoring the causes.



Nope. Having lived through that generation of consoles, Nintendo had a serious image problem back then.
Nintendo was seen as the system for kids, hence the "kiddie" image. Sony did a great job marketing the Playstation as the "mature" system, and it worked.
While the N64 did have mature games, it didn't matter. The "kiddie" image stuck all the way through the Gamecube era until the Wii came out. Which looked and felt more like an Apple product. Gone was the colorful box.
Nintendo being arrogant to 3rd parties, using expensive cartridges, N64 being hard to develop for, also factored in, but the "kiddie" image was the worst of it.