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Forums - Politics Discussion - Is it true that Americans are to this day afraid of socialism?

sales2099 said:
Kai_Mao said:
I have no stake in this matter. But I’m curious. For those against socialism, what are your feelings on programs such as social security, Medicare/Medicaid, and other programs that were supposedly driven from concepts of socialism? If you don’t like those programs, what are your potential solutions to meeting the needs that these programs are meeting?

Canada has a great system. Semi high taxes for free medical and other government benefits. Can’t say I approve of all programs but most help people in a good way. But economy is pure capitalism. 

Fair, but I doubt even the current US administration would be bold enough to consider it, considering how conservative they are. They wound probably freak out on increasing taxes even a little bit.

I kinda laugh looking back on that video previously posted about Republicans reacting to socialism and how it somewhat applies to some of the solutions you mentioned Canada is implementing. They want to stop certain parts of the ACA but want to keep the Medicare/Medicaid benefits. It’s very interesting on how the US has reacted historically to various programs that either worked out or turned out badly.



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Bofferbrauer2 said:
sales2099 said:

I think the points I mentioned about what Dems are doing is a little more impactful then having a hard time trying to vote. I never got this, just vote in person. I’m not American but I’m aware there is early voting and what not. If you can’t vote via mail do it in person. There will always be healthcare for working class citizens in one form or another. 

The thing is, you normally vote via mail because you can't vote in person for one reason or another. So removing the possibility to vote by mail is equal to not being able to vote at all for lots of people.

Also, care to explain why you think what the democrats are doing is more impactful and what exactly that is?

If voting was regulated to Election Day only I’d say you have a point. But with being able to vote weeks in advance I’d say the problems voting by mail are moot. Pick a day and vote. I’ll leave it at that. 

Like I said before Dems are rising in influence via Socialist talking points and advocates like Alexandria Cortez and Bernie Sanders. Increased spending for many social programs with no way to pay for it except heavily tax the rich (making them move their money out of the state/country which poses more problems). 

But quite simply, they have an increasingly hard left approach that’s anti mainstream conservative. Political discourse is not an option, you conform or your life is ruined. Best case your social media is done. Worst case you loose your job and you will be tarnished for the rest of your life. I’m not even talking about racists or bigots but mainstream conservatism. Living in fear, being afraid to speak, and the government condoning violence if you disagree...that’s fascism. 



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sales2099 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

https://www.britannica.com/story/were-the-nazis-socialists

So yes, in name only. They attracted socialists with their socialist branding, but killed them of in the night of the long knives in 1934 after they served their purpose of winning the election with their misleading name.

Otherwise, why not give the statue of liberty to North Korea? I mean, can't be more free than a People's Democratic Republic, right? Dictators have always sought to find names that resonate with the people, most of the time without adhering to their meaning even in the slightest.

Also again, what socialist would take big money from big corporations who want them to remove worker protection rights? That's exactly what the big German Industrials like the Krupp and Porsche families were doing, and Hitler and the entire NSDAP happily agreed. No socialist would ever do that.

I’d say that plays into my stance. Bait and switch. Get elected via Socialism and then transition into fascism.

It always leads to complete government oversight. Suppression of the individual and prioritizing the prosperity of the state. Which is never good on both counts. 

don't have the bait. The left in german is not hitler party. KAPD KPD and SPD are the left-wing. NSPAD, Hitler's party, was right-wing at the beginning of Weimar Republic



Kai_Mao said:
I have no stake in this matter. But I’m curious. For those against socialism, what are your feelings on programs such as social security, Medicare/Medicaid, and other programs that were supposedly driven from concepts of socialism? If you don’t like those programs, what are your potential solutions to meeting the needs that these programs are meeting?

What a pointless question. The political spectrum consists of more than one left and one right.

The Nazis had all that social stuff and more.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_People%27s_Welfare

Does that mean you like National Socialism?



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sales2099 said:
People who advocate for socialism imo tend to want more handouts from the government. On paper it’s a noble ideology. But people abuse and put a strain on the system. Then you have numerous examples in history of governments being corrupt, and mismanaged. Which ultimately leads to stagnation and collapse.

Socialism doesn't need to be an all or nothing approach.

I work damn hard, my life gets put at risk, I still support Socialism to various degrees when it is used to support the most vulnerable and enhance the free market for better opportunities for all.

A little bit of socialism has certainly assisted my own country (Australia) to have one of the highest living standards in the world with one of the best (socialist) health care systems in the world, fantastic infrastructure and a welfare safety net that supports the nations most vulnerable.

I would say for us it's been extremely successful... And we still maintained our market-based capitalistic market on top of it and are still a highly developed first world nation.

sales2099 said:
Agente42 said:

Socialism and fascism are the same thing?

Jesus, history and geopolitics go wrong in US, then?

Fascism rose under a socialist policy. Basically, get the masses pissed off at the current government, promise free stuff and that things will get better. Once in power, Germany then implemented a fascism regime. 

They kind of go hand in hand. Today Democrats  pride themselves on speech censorship, and condone violence against conservatives. All in the name of what they think is right and any other opinion is swiftly silenced. Disagree and you loose your job or get death threats. To me where as historically we dealt with right wing fascism, today we seeing the rise in left wing fascism. Both used Socialism to gain influence. Both take away rights for the greater good of the state. Both suppress freedoms of individuals. 

Facism is rising in the USA under the current term.

The further left or right you go, the more they are the same.




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Trump's ad campaign calls Biden a socialist, so yes, it is true that Americans are afraid of socialism. Otherwise fear of socialism wouldn't have been made a central part of Trump's ad campaign.



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RolStoppable said:
Trump's ad campaign calls Biden a socialist, so yes, it is true that Americans are afraid of socialism. Otherwise fear of socialism wouldn't have been made a central part of Trump's ad campaign.

They should learn in school that socialism has plenty of meanings depending on how it is used.



Immersiveunreality said:
RolStoppable said:
Trump's ad campaign calls Biden a socialist, so yes, it is true that Americans are afraid of socialism. Otherwise fear of socialism wouldn't have been made a central part of Trump's ad campaign.

They should learn in school that socialism has plenty of meanings depending on how it is used.

They should teach about the danger of any kind of extremism. Socialists do "victimhood mentality" to the maximum. They also like to cry fascist a lot. Almost like the thesis seeks out its anti-thesis.

Unfortunately they don't tought us much about communism, but plenty of time for Ze Third Reich. 



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sales2099 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

The thing is, you normally vote via mail because you can't vote in person for one reason or another. So removing the possibility to vote by mail is equal to not being able to vote at all for lots of people.

Also, care to explain why you think what the democrats are doing is more impactful and what exactly that is?

If voting was regulated to Election Day only I’d say you have a point. But with being able to vote weeks in advance I’d say the problems voting by mail are moot. Pick a day and vote. I’ll leave it at that. 

Like I said before Dems are rising in influence via Socialist talking points and advocates like Alexandria Cortez and Bernie Sanders. Increased spending for many social programs with no way to pay for it except heavily tax the rich (making them move their money out of the state/country which poses more problems)

But quite simply, they have an increasingly hard left approach that’s anti mainstream conservative. Political discourse is not an option, you conform or your life is ruined. Best case your social media is done. Worst case you loose your job and you will be tarnished for the rest of your life. I’m not even talking about racists or bigots but mainstream conservatism. Living in fear, being afraid to speak, and the government condoning violence if you disagree...that’s fascism. 

@bolded: There's 2 problems with that reasoning:

  1. Private persons can't do this nearly as easily as companies. Americans who live abroad still have to pay taxes in the US due to some law, so the only way to avoid those taxes would be to not only move out of the US, but also acquire the Nationality of the country they moved to and then give up their US nationality.
  2. The process above is quite lengthy for most countries, especially since you must prove prolonged residency most, if not all cases, so if those rich people are working in the US, they most probably won't have the time to do so. Also, depending on their target country, getting back into the US on a regular basis for work may be another issue.

This would just leave those who are not working anymore and just sitting on their money hoard anyway. Those don't contribute to society anyway and barely pay any taxes since they don't really have any income apart from possibly dividends from shares - which, if they are taxed (not sure if those are taxed in the US), are taxed in the country they are getting traded, which would then be the US. So the US would literally loose nothing in taxes by losing that old money.