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Forums - Politics Discussion - (POSSIBLE SPOILERS INSIDE) The agenda and political discussion of Naughty Dog

 

Have politics damaged the quality of ND games

No 39 41.94%
 
Yes 54 58.06%
 
Total:93
KLXVER said:
Runa216 said:

Well aren't you the most mature little guy! You and people like you are why we can't have constructive discussions on these matters. 

Well you call people bigots and sexists for questioning Abbys body, so maybe not accuse other people of being immature?

Because they are? I mean, it's either they're bigots or they're idiots, because Abby's body proportions are completely reasonable and you'd have to be either an idiot or a bigot to think otherwise. Either way, I don't respect them and they don't deserve respect. 



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Runa216 said:
Hiku said:

I'll ask you a similar question.

What are some of the reasons you think Naughty Dog 1.) had that event happen 2.) at the stage it happened? (As in early in the game vs late in the game.)
What were they trying to convey, and how did the timing and execution of that scene affect this?

Spoiler!
Lesson in revenge

is more vague. I'm looking for more elaborate analysis.

I want to compare my understanding to your guys. Because as I kept playing, I became less and less against the decision, and eventually felt like this was more or less the only way to do what they tried to do. Which I've never seen before in a game. Or perhaps any medium.

I've given up trying to find logic in the hate. The more I read about the game and the way the story unfolds, the clearer it is that it's a well-written story with well-developed characters that makes logical sense in the context of the situation but that some people will bend over backwards and stick their head up their ass so deep they tongue their own throat from behind just to justify why they're frothing at the mouth to rant about SJW propaganda. 

Every reasonable person I've met has similar experiences as you. Without the inherent bias going in, the story makes plenty of sense and the characters are reasonable. There's nothing worth getting angry about, but I guess someone heard there were lesbians in the game so they twist everything they can to hate it. 

I don't even know what to say about all this anymore. IT's just so exhausting to argue with people who aren't conversing with logic but shouting agendas about limiting representation while crying and pretending to be the victim. It's really quite sad, and it's even sadder that so many people are playing the 'it's equal on both sides' card as if that's a catch-all to act like there isn't a right and wrong answer here. 

Wait, so you didn't even play the game to see the story, how the games unfold, the converstations, the flow and rythm, etc and is defending it is good because who don't like it is because they are biggoted and are trying to hide it with polite criticism?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

John2290 said:
Runa216 said:

Because they are? I mean, it's either they're bigots or they're idiots, because Abby's body proportions are completely reasonable and you'd have to be either an idiot or a bigot to think otherwise. Either way, I don't respect them and they don't deserve respect. 

You're filled with so much hate, I feel for ya man. I has a period in my life where I was like you and I didn't realise until after the fact. Life gets better man, i hope it does for you. 

I hate bigots, yes. I hate bad people. I hate it when people try to devalue the hardships of others for the sake of maintaining the status quo. I hate it when people use poor logic but it works becuase too many people are too shortsighted to do actual research and understand the nuance of a situation. I hate fearmongering, I hate sexism, I hate racism, I hate it when people are disrespectful of others for something that doesn't affect them, and I hate it when people act like I'm the bad guy because I've had it with people like you spouting hate and then cowering behind the victim mentality any time someone calls you out on it. 

I'm a very loving person to those who deserve it. 

I've long since run out of patience for the kinds of people I'm seeing with increased frequency on the internet. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Runa216 said:
KLXVER said:

Well you call people bigots and sexists for questioning Abbys body, so maybe not accuse other people of being immature?

Because they are? I mean, it's either they're bigots or they're idiots, because Abby's body proportions are completely reasonable and you'd have to be either an idiot or a bigot to think otherwise. Either way, I don't respect them and they don't deserve respect. 

Nope it isn't resonable, but sure it isn't impossible. But most likely improbable. I have seem buffier woman than her, but only in places that woman go to do bodybuilding, and mostly they try to avoid working their upper portion. Just look for any bodybuilding competition in all the classes and you won't see the proportions of Abby. Again you are being excessively defensive.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Runa216 said:

I've given up trying to find logic in the hate. The more I read about the game and the way the story unfolds, the clearer it is that it's a well-written story with well-developed characters that makes logical sense in the context of the situation but that some people will bend over backwards and stick their head up their ass so deep they tongue their own throat from behind just to justify why they're frothing at the mouth to rant about SJW propaganda. 

Every reasonable person I've met has similar experiences as you. Without the inherent bias going in, the story makes plenty of sense and the characters are reasonable. There's nothing worth getting angry about, but I guess someone heard there were lesbians in the game so they twist everything they can to hate it. 

I don't even know what to say about all this anymore. IT's just so exhausting to argue with people who aren't conversing with logic but shouting agendas about limiting representation while crying and pretending to be the victim. It's really quite sad, and it's even sadder that so many people are playing the 'it's equal on both sides' card as if that's a catch-all to act like there isn't a right and wrong answer here. 

Wait, so you didn't even play the game to see the story, how the games unfold, the converstations, the flow and rythm, etc and is defending it is good because who don't like it is because they are biggoted and are trying to hide it with polite criticism?

I never said it was good, I said the reasons people are hating it are not good reasons to say it's bad. I don't like The Last of Us and likely won't play the sequel because I don't much care for the gameplay or Naughty dog's style over substance mentality. I play games that are fun, I watch movies or TV or read books for deep, nuanced storytelling and character work. 

I just think the reasons people are hating this game indiscriminately are not good reasons to hate a game and are entirely based off entitlement or bigotry. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Around the Network
Runa216 said:
DonFerrari said:

Wait, so you didn't even play the game to see the story, how the games unfold, the converstations, the flow and rythm, etc and is defending it is good because who don't like it is because they are biggoted and are trying to hide it with polite criticism?

I never said it was good, I said the reasons people are hating it are not good reasons to say it's bad. I don't like The Last of Us and likely won't play the sequel because I don't much care for the gameplay or Naughty dog's style over substance mentality. I play games that are fun, I watch movies or TV or read books for deep, nuanced storytelling and character work. 

I just think the reasons people are hating this game indiscriminately are not good reasons to hate a game and are entirely based off entitlement or bigotry. 

You are questioning John hating the story, I have done some convo with him and it have about 0 to do with what you think. You are just making straw man and dishing out personal attacks based on your own assumptions of why they don't like, while you yourself doesn't like. If we were to do like you we could say you don't like Naughty Dog games because they featured white males until now and you defend TLOU2 because it feature females, probably I would be wrong by over a country mile, but that is exactly the type of argument you are using.

There is no denying that ND is going for a progressive agenda, key people in the company already confirmed it. The point is have it ruined their work? For majority it doesn't seem like it, but some people don't like where they are taking the studio.

And since you don't like the original and didn't play the second, so your understanding of the IP is likely much smaller than the ones that are showing why they don't like what was done, yet you are acting like you know better than then not only about the game but also about what is going inside their mind.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Runa216 said:
KLXVER said:

Well you call people bigots and sexists for questioning Abbys body, so maybe not accuse other people of being immature?

Because they are? I mean, it's either they're bigots or they're idiots, because Abby's body proportions are completely reasonable and you'd have to be either an idiot or a bigot to think otherwise. Either way, I don't respect them and they don't deserve respect. 

Its just using those words in cases like this kinda lessen the impact of them. People become more suspicious when real bigotry and sexism occur. Same with words like racist and homophobe. Save your anger for the people who really hurt others.



the-pi-guy said:
So Abby's model is based on Colleen Fotsch, who does CrossFit competitions and is regularly tested for steroids for those competitions.

Since you didn't inserted the pic I done it for you

I'll say she is bigger than Abby and her abs (nickname for Abby kkkk) is more defined than Abby.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Issue with statements about how reasonable it is for a video game character model to be one way or another is that you only have a single person to go on. Single individuals are always an amalgam of different not so likely things. I have a PhD (2% chance), Crohn's disease (1% chance) and am a father of an interracial child (15% chance based on interracial marriage rates). The chances of me being all of those is .01x.02x.15 or .003%, but that doesn't change the fact that I as a single person am those things. If you think it's unreasonable for a game character to be a certain way all you need is a single example of someone being like that in the real world and you're already wrong, even if there's only a single person like that in the entire world because that single character is also just a single person. You'd need multiple people with these traits to meet up randomly before you could say anything about likelihood of an event occuring.



...

Torillian said:
Issue with statements about how reasonable it is for a video game character model to be one way or another is that you only have a single person to go on. Single individuals are always an amalgam of different not so likely things. I have a PhD (2% chance), Crohn's disease (1% chance) and am a father of an interracial child (15% chance based on interracial marriage rates). The chances of me being all of those is .01x.02x.15 or .003%, but that doesn't change the fact that I as a single person am those things. If you think it's unreasonable for a game character to be a certain way all you need is a single example of someone being like that in the real world and you're already wrong, even if there's only a single person like that in the entire world because that single character is also just a single person. You'd need multiple people with these traits to meet up randomly before you could say anything about likelihood of an event occuring.

Guess you are mixing things.

Would it be reasonable to meet you on the street at random? 1 in 7 billions people? Nope. Would it be possible? Yes it would.

So it is possible that someone like her exist (and we have the female that was used as reference that is very similar to her), but is it reasonable as within expectations? Not really. Is it a problem? Of course not, after all life is made of very (un)likely events that are unique when weaved together.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."