Forums - Gaming Discussion - In your mind, what will the Xbox SX conference have to do to beat the PS5 conference?

Tagged games:

Answer the damned question!

Fantastic games 65 51.18%
 
100% backwards compatible with every Xbox 3 2.36%
 
VR Support 3 2.36%
 
Shockingly low price 21 16.54%
 
There's NOTHING they can do 31 24.41%
 
Other (please explain) 4 3.15%
 
Total:127
goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

Don was talking about Lockhart bundled with GP to attract casuals. And the first thing you mention now is SSD and high end graphics specs. Casuals do not care. We can never speak for their buying habits. They buy on price and value. GP is value. Lockhart shouldn’t concern us. 

Lockhart should concern us when it'll be used as the base console. I'm fine with 4k/60fps, all I'm saying is that Lockhart should't make it so that's literally the only thing developers can do with the extra 8Tflops and 8 gigs of RAM on Series X.

You agreed that 60fps is overkill for most genres and you're also aware that things like checkerboard rendering can get almost 4k like results at a fraction of the cost. So why wouldn't you want developers to decide what yields the best visual results for their game instead of all that "we all need to push for 4k" bollocks?

I am no tech expert, of course. But surely developers should be able to do a lot more impressive things on Series X and ps5 than just 4k/60fps?

You just deflecting now going back to the same song and dance. Game Pass saves you money and is very attractive to casuals when paired with Lockhart. It’s the best bang for buck for those who just don’t care about everything you just typed. 



 

 

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DonFerrari said:
goopy20 said:

MAybe that is true, but as a gamer I just don't understand how anyone would want that. The thing with GP is that its a cool service later in a console gen when loads of games have come and gone. Some of them might not have gotten the sales they deserved and GP is great for lowering the barrier so people can still play them later on. However, its a bit different at the start of a new console generation. I mean when will we see next-gen heavy hitters like GTA6, BF6, COD etc on GP, if at all? 

If MS wants to beat Sony's conference they need to clearly demonstrate the difference between their $600 next gen, and $200 current gen console. Which means they have to show games that show a clear overall jump and not just a bump in res/fps like we saw in May. If they can't really do that with their exclusives because they're all cross-gen titles, they should at least have some of the big 3rd party games on stage like a BF6, for example. But unless MS pays them a fortune, it will be years before games like that make their way to GP. 

Start of the gen it also make a lot of sense when bundled.

If you go there as a casual gamer or someone that really like to game but have limited budget, there is plenty of people like that, and you have one option of PS5 and Series X let's say at 499 (both selling at loss) and you have to put forth extra 60 bucks for new games, and let's say you have to buy 3 games during the first year to have something to play, that means 680 bucks upfront (without even accounting for mp costs).

Now same person see Lockhart for 399 with the option of 0 upfront payment if they sign for a 5 year GP plan and that comes with all the GP library of BC X1 plus added games of GP on launch (like Halo let's say).

Even if long term they end up paying 50-100% more on the HW because of the finnancing when the person see 0 upfront and small monthly payments, let's say 25 bucks (15 for subs and 10 for console) he is certainly be interested by that.

I know there's a lot of value there, but what's stopping anyone from just sticking to their ps4/xone? There are 150m gamers out there playing on current gen consoles who are probably perfectly fine with what they have. Its up to MS and Sony to show the value of their new consoles and persuade them to upgrade. If very few people do that, it will be a long, long time before we'll see AAA games designed specifically for next gen consoles. The only way to do that is with great games that can only be played on next gen.

GP is fantastic and all, but does it really have the games that'll persuade anyone to upgrade to a next gen console? Someone who buys a $200 Lockhart will likely be most excited about the big blockbusters like GTA6, COD etc. All games that probably won't be on GP for years, if at all. That's why I'm saying GP offers good value but its also a double edged sword when it comes to building a next gen installbase, and getting the big developers on board. There's a shit ton of games on GP but none of them requires people to buy a Lockhart, let alone a Series X. As they can all be played on the Xbox people already have. 

Last edited by goopy20 - on 04 July 2020

goopy20 said:
DonFerrari said:

Start of the gen it also make a lot of sense when bundled.

If you go there as a casual gamer or someone that really like to game but have limited budget, there is plenty of people like that, and you have one option of PS5 and Series X let's say at 499 (both selling at loss) and you have to put forth extra 60 bucks for new games, and let's say you have to buy 3 games during the first year to have something to play, that means 680 bucks upfront (without even accounting for mp costs).

Now same person see Lockhart for 399 with the option of 0 upfront payment if they sign for a 5 year GP plan and that comes with all the GP library of BC X1 plus added games of GP on launch (like Halo let's say).

Even if long term they end up paying 50-100% more on the HW because of the finnancing when the person see 0 upfront and small monthly payments, let's say 25 bucks (15 for subs and 10 for console) he is certainly be interested by that.

I know there's a lot of value there, but what's stopping anyone from just sticking to their ps4/xone? There are 150m gamers out there playing on current gen consoles who are probably perfectly fine with what they have. Its up to MS and Sony to show the value of their new consoles and persuade them to upgrade. If very few people do that, it will be a long, long time before we'll see AAA games designed specifically for next gen consoles. The only way to do that is with great games that can only be played on next gen.

GP is fantastic and all, but does it really have the games that'll persuade anyone to upgrade to a next gen console? Someone who buys a $200 Lockhart will likely be most excited about the big blockbusters like GTA6, COD etc. All games that probably won't be on GP for years, if at all. That's why I'm saying GP offers good value but its also a double edged sword when it comes to building a next gen installbase, and getting the big developers on board.

Nothing, as there isn't anything stoping anyone from keeping their PS3 and not buy a PS4, still people buy them.

All MS blockbuster games are and will be on GP day one, several high profile third parties are also on GP so people would be enticed by it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
goopy20 said:

I know there's a lot of value there, but what's stopping anyone from just sticking to their ps4/xone? There are 150m gamers out there playing on current gen consoles who are probably perfectly fine with what they have. Its up to MS and Sony to show the value of their new consoles and persuade them to upgrade. If very few people do that, it will be a long, long time before we'll see AAA games designed specifically for next gen consoles. The only way to do that is with great games that can only be played on next gen.

GP is fantastic and all, but does it really have the games that'll persuade anyone to upgrade to a next gen console? Someone who buys a $200 Lockhart will likely be most excited about the big blockbusters like GTA6, COD etc. All games that probably won't be on GP for years, if at all. That's why I'm saying GP offers good value but its also a double edged sword when it comes to building a next gen installbase, and getting the big developers on board.

Nothing, as there isn't anything stoping anyone from keeping their PS3 and not buy a PS4, still people buy them.

All MS blockbuster games are and will be on GP day one, several high profile third parties are also on GP so people would be enticed by it.

True but people bought a ps4/Xone because games were coming out that could only be played on those consoles, while support for ps3/360 was drying out. Console generations have been like that since forever and everybody is fine with it. However, for the first time in gaming history we have a console manufacturer that is doing things completely different. They're making their new console more like an optional upgrade, while we can just play all their exclusives on Xone, XoneX and any half decent pc on GP too. Of course there will be the 3rd party games but how long do you think it will take before the big guns like GTA6, COD, BF6, AC etc. will be on GP? It can literally be 2024 before there'll be any games on GP that require next gen hardware.

Sony has showed stuff like Spider Man, HZD2, which are huge franchises, and if you want to play them you absolutely have to buy a ps5. While MS hasn't shown anything that requires a next gen console. Sure, if you want to play the best possible version in 4k and 60, or even, 120 fps. But isn't that just like the X1X and ps4 Pro because not many thought it was worth upgrading over.

Imo what MS should do to beat Sony's conference is simply show exclusive AAA games that can really only be played on Series X or a super high-end pc. And even through a crappy 1080p Youtube stream, it should be crystal clear why they aren't going to be on Xone too. I really hope they can do that, but I just don't see how with their whole cross gen/platform strategy thing in place.

Last edited by goopy20 - on 04 July 2020

goopy20 said:
DonFerrari said:

Nothing, as there isn't anything stoping anyone from keeping their PS3 and not buy a PS4, still people buy them.

All MS blockbuster games are and will be on GP day one, several high profile third parties are also on GP so people would be enticed by it.

True but people bought a ps4/Xone because games were coming out that could only be played on those consoles, while support for ps3/360 was drying out. Console generations have been like that since forever and everybody is fine with it. However, for the first time in gaming history we have a console manufacturer that is doing things completely different. They're making their new console more like an optional upgrade, while we can just play all their exclusives on Xone, XoneX and any half decent pc on GP too. Of course there will be the 3rd party games but how long do you think it will take before the big guns like GTA6, COD, BF6, AC etc. will be on GP? It can literally be 2024 before there'll be any games on GP that require next gen hardware.

Sony has showed stuff like Spider Man, HZD2, which are huge franchises, and if you want to play them you absolutely have to buy a ps5. While MS hasn't shown anything that requires a next gen console. Sure, if you want to play the best possible version in 4k and 60, or even, 120 fps. But isn't that just like the X1X and ps4 Pro because not many thought it was worth upgrading over.

Imo what MS should do to beat Sony's conference is simply show exclusive AAA games that can really only be played on Series X or a super high-end pc. And even through a crappy 1080p Youtube stream, it should be crystal clear why they aren't going to be on Xone too. I really hope they can do that, but I just don't see how with their whole cross gen/platform strategy thing in place.

False. Gran Turismo 6 release when PS4 was launching, and some other games. Third Parties put crossgen for the first year or two for a long time already.

And considering how low the sales for X1 were (and that base model was the most sold) then it is quite possible that a very good deal on Lockhart will make it people want to buy it because with GP, they can expend very little and enjoy all exclusives for X1 "for free" while still being able to play the whole 9th gen. Also that will still be a major upgrade against base X1.

Will MS do this strategy with Lockhart "for free" on a multi year contract of GP? We don't know yet. Will it work out? We have no way to be sure. But I think there is a lot of potential. Lockhart for 100 less than PS5 and XSX 100 more would give they almost certainly a major defeat, but on a contract with GP with an attractive price it would potentially do very well.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

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goopy20 said:
DonFerrari said:

Start of the gen it also make a lot of sense when bundled.

If you go there as a casual gamer or someone that really like to game but have limited budget, there is plenty of people like that, and you have one option of PS5 and Series X let's say at 499 (both selling at loss) and you have to put forth extra 60 bucks for new games, and let's say you have to buy 3 games during the first year to have something to play, that means 680 bucks upfront (without even accounting for mp costs).

Now same person see Lockhart for 399 with the option of 0 upfront payment if they sign for a 5 year GP plan and that comes with all the GP library of BC X1 plus added games of GP on launch (like Halo let's say).

Even if long term they end up paying 50-100% more on the HW because of the finnancing when the person see 0 upfront and small monthly payments, let's say 25 bucks (15 for subs and 10 for console) he is certainly be interested by that.

I know there's a lot of value there, but what's stopping anyone from just sticking to their ps4/xone? There are 150m gamers out there playing on current gen consoles who are probably perfectly fine with what they have. Its up to MS and Sony to show the value of their new consoles and persuade them to upgrade. If very few people do that, it will be a long, long time before we'll see AAA games designed specifically for next gen consoles. The only way to do that is with great games that can only be played on next gen.

GP is fantastic and all, but does it really have the games that'll persuade anyone to upgrade to a next gen console? Someone who buys a $200 Lockhart will likely be most excited about the big blockbusters like GTA6, COD etc. All games that probably won't be on GP for years, if at all. That's why I'm saying GP offers good value but its also a double edged sword when it comes to building a next gen installbase, and getting the big developers on board. There's a shit ton of games on GP but none of them requires people to buy a Lockhart, let alone a Series X. As they can all be played on the Xbox people already have. 

You not familiar with late adopters? Everyone who is buying PS4s and XB1 this year in 2020....you think they are year 1 next gen adopters? Think you forgot that casuals and late adopters exist. Casuals just play the games on price and late adopters don’t plan to upgrade. Hence cross gen...give late adopters a reason to not regret their purchase. I get my Series X version so I can’t complain.

Now that said, while some games will be cross gen in July I feel others will fall outside the window. So a nice mix overall. 

Sure people can stick with their XB1 for a while if they have Game Pass or Xcloud later on. But then you have to ask...why? This is me talking, but Xbox One just has a negative stigma attached to it. The brand is stained. New gen, new potential. Lockhart would represent a nice entry level console that will last 7 years if you don’t care for the specs. 



 

 

goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

First party alone makes GP worth while. And it will be even more evident after July. $15 per month for GP and Live Gold and $10 for just GP. 

Flight Sim, Gears Tactics, Halo Infinite, Forza Motorsport, Forza Horizon, Gears, Hellblade 2, Grounded, Everwild, Peoject Mara. Playgrounds RPG, Obsidian games, Inexile RPGs, The Initiative IP, etc etc.....all day 1. Thats 14 games off the top of my head. Let’s say the lower priced games are $40 and the big hitters are $70. I could play them all for $180 for the year. Let’s me conservative and say PS5 has 7 exclusives in year 1. 70x7 = 490. Simple math dictates Game Pass is a must if you actually value your money. Nevermind the AAA 3rd party games that will eventually come. 

“If they can't really do that with their exclusives because they're all cross-gen titles“

If the games look gorgeous, are quality titles and aren’t on PS being cross gen is irrelevant. It simply helps differentiate the Xbox brand. 

That's true. MS's 1st party exclusives are obviously the major draw for GP and I know there's a lot of value there. But from all those games you just mentioned, how many of them will require a super fast SSD and a RTX graphics cards?

Look, I'm not here trying to upset anyone and I know not everybody shares the same opinion as me as to what next gen games should be about. I know there are plenty of people who swear by playing 4k on 120hz monitors and were probably super impressed with Dirt 5 running in 120fps. But personally, I just care more about a noticeable leap in overall immersion. I expect to watch a crap quality 1080p Youtube stream in July and still come away impressed because it still shows a generational leap. 

That's why I can't stand all the things I keep hearing from Phil and why I think a 4Tflops Lockhart with half the RAM, is a terrible idea. I know its consumer friendly and all. But if you see how developers are able to optimize on consoles, where even a single unlocked cpu core can make a difference, I just find it hard to believe that it's not going to limit the ambitions of multiplatform games across all platforms. Especially once we get into the middle of the generation and developers are starting to test the limits.

No one gets upset about anything you say here. Personally I think it’s entertaining to see which way you’ll spin next, what nonsense you’ll make out of a Papa Phil quote. What your evolving definition of next gen changes to in response to what Microsoft does.

And idk why you’re harping on big AAA games when it comes to Gamepass. The best part of GP is access to tons of games you probably never heard of and had no idea you’d enjoy so much. Or smaller tier games you know about but now get to play for an incredible value because they are on GP. Big AAA mega titles are great but they’ve never been common, outside of MS’s own titles. It’s always been big titles but months or years after release. No different than PS Now.

At launch if you buy a next gen Xbox you’ll have access to games like Scorn, Medium, Halo Infinite, Gears 5 enhanced, plus others coming around launch like Gears Tactics and Call to the Sea plus others. Who cares if it doesn’t get the newest CoD or Battlefield or whatever.

Also numerous devs and journalists have spoken out about Lockhart supposedly holding XSX back. Per usual, you’re mistaken.



I suppose this kind of goes without saying, but if MS show more cool looking exclusives/hostages than Sony do, with a lower system price point, and more powerful hardware, then that will probably do it.

Bonus points if they add mod support like we get on the PC, or free online, full backwards compatibility, and/or if they mumble some PR gibberish about wanting to put consumers first in an attempt to please the public.



chakkra said:
EnricoPallazzo said:

Yes I get that, for example read dead redemption for Xone X that was more than just higher resolution and etc.

The point is that games will always run at the maximum resolution and fps as originally designed. AGain using GTA4 as an example, even on XSX in theory it will run at 720p 30fps, of course loading times will be crazy fast, it will never drop below 30fps and probably a few other things will get better.

But as far as I know, to run it at a higher resolution of fps it's something that depends on the developer and I think most o them will not be interested in that as it requires time for something that will not bring more money in, and also kind of kills opportunity for future remasters.

My hope is that XSX could do it without the developer, just like a pc game you know? Microsoft internally just deploy an option to run the game at a higher resolution or fps. But again, I dont see that happening unfortunately.

MS has already been enhancing BC games without the devs input. You already mentioned RDR, that was Microsoft's doing.

"we saw Gears of War Ultimate Edition operating with a 2x resolution scale on both axes, taking a 1080p game all the way up to native 4K. It's an evolution of the Heutchy Method used to bring Xbox 360 720p titles up to full 4K, with often spectacular results. Crucially, the back-compat team does all the heavy lifting at the system level - game developers do not need to participate at all in the process." 

Now they are talking about adding HDR to older games.

"This was a show-stopping moment. It was indeed Fusion Frenzy - an original Xbox title - running with its usual 16x resolution multiplier via back-compat, but this time presented with highly convincing, perceptibly real HDR. The key point is that this is proposed as a system-level feature for Xbox Series X, which should apply to all compatible games that don't have their own bespoke HDR modes - and as Marais demonstrated, it extends across the entire Xbox library."

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs

Thanks! Didnt know it. Hope restored then!



DonFerrari said:
goopy20 said:

True but people bought a ps4/Xone because games were coming out that could only be played on those consoles, while support for ps3/360 was drying out. Console generations have been like that since forever and everybody is fine with it. However, for the first time in gaming history we have a console manufacturer that is doing things completely different. They're making their new console more like an optional upgrade, while we can just play all their exclusives on Xone, XoneX and any half decent pc on GP too. Of course there will be the 3rd party games but how long do you think it will take before the big guns like GTA6, COD, BF6, AC etc. will be on GP? It can literally be 2024 before there'll be any games on GP that require next gen hardware.

Sony has showed stuff like Spider Man, HZD2, which are huge franchises, and if you want to play them you absolutely have to buy a ps5. While MS hasn't shown anything that requires a next gen console. Sure, if you want to play the best possible version in 4k and 60, or even, 120 fps. But isn't that just like the X1X and ps4 Pro because not many thought it was worth upgrading over.

Imo what MS should do to beat Sony's conference is simply show exclusive AAA games that can really only be played on Series X or a super high-end pc. And even through a crappy 1080p Youtube stream, it should be crystal clear why they aren't going to be on Xone too. I really hope they can do that, but I just don't see how with their whole cross gen/platform strategy thing in place.

False. Gran Turismo 6 release when PS4 was launching, and some other games. Third Parties put crossgen for the first year or two for a long time already.

And considering how low the sales for X1 were (and that base model was the most sold) then it is quite possible that a very good deal on Lockhart will make it people want to buy it because with GP, they can expend very little and enjoy all exclusives for X1 "for free" while still being able to play the whole 9th gen. Also that will still be a major upgrade against base X1.

Will MS do this strategy with Lockhart "for free" on a multi year contract of GP? We don't know yet. Will it work out? We have no way to be sure. But I think there is a lot of potential. Lockhart for 100 less than PS5 and XSX 100 more would give they almost certainly a major defeat, but on a contract with GP with an attractive price it would potentially do very well.

I know Sony typically ends a console generation with a bang. Hell, they just released TLOU2 and Ghosts of Sushi will be coming out in a couple of weeks. However, starting next year, all of Sony's exclusives will be on ps5 only. Maybe that isn't very consumer-friendly-like, but its always been that way and nobody will get upset if HZD2 doesn't get a ps4 release. Sony just has to convince the 100m ps4 owners why they should upgrade to a ps5. They typically do that by getting people excited about the promise of new experiences that are a dramatic leap over what's possible on their current console. 

What's weird to me is that everybody is convinced that all ps5/Series X games will be 4k/60fps and therefore Lockhart is a great idea for those who just want to play the same games in 30fps/1080p. People don't seem to realize that the mid-gen consoles were very much a niche product. Maybe I exaggerate a bit when I say nobody cares about 4k and 60fps. But fact remains, only a small percentage thought playing the same games, but better, was worth the upgrade.

If Sony and MS plan to convince people to upgrade, they need to do a lot more than spend 2/3 of gpu resources on just a bump in resolution and framerate. They need to create a desire by showing new and exciting things. Sony gets that and they could show a 1080p Youtube stream and still get people excited. The big question is if MS will be able to do the same, or if people need to watch the July event in native 4k and 120fps to notice a major difference? We will see soon enough ;)