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Forums - Sales Discussion - Why Sonys Play Station is the standard for home consoles since 1994 ?

Wyrdness said:
d21lewis said:

There's a lot in here that's factually wrong but since it's anti-sony, I'm not going to complain too much.

Such as?

-Johnny Turbo (TurboGrafx-16 mascot for a short while, worth a Google if you want a laugh) said that the Turbo CD was out two years before the Sega CD.

-Neo Geo had memory cards before Sega

-There were wireless controllers (that sucked) way before the Wavebird. I remember many for the NES.

-Not sure about retro video game service but there were plenty of old games on the XBL service prior to the Virtual Console. I guess you could say Nintendo did it more thoroughly.

-There's a lot of "unnofficial" attempts at online gaming. Some were just digital downloads. Some actually allowed head to head play like Xband and Sharkwire. According to a quick Google search, the Apple Pippin was the first out of the box with built in online.

-Guru Larry (Larry Bundy Jr.) had a video that blew my mind about things I thought Nintendo did first, including the NES controller.

https://youtu.be/56AoH-ZPk9s

(I keep having to flip back to the last page to see the post)

Last edited by d21lewis - on 08 June 2020

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d21lewis said:
Wyrdness said:

Such as?

-Johnny Turbo (TurboGrafx-16 mascot for a short while, worth a Google if you want a laugh) said that the Turbo CD was out two years before the Sega CD.

-Neo Geo had memory cards before Sega

-There were wireless controllers (that sucked) way before the Wavebird. I remember many for the NES.

-Not sure about retro video game service but there were plenty of old games on the XBL service prior to the Virtual Console. I guess you could say Nintendo did it more thoroughly.

-There's a lot of "unnofficial" attempts at online gaming. Some were just digital downloads. Some actually allowed head to head play like Xband and Sharkwire. According to a quick Google search, the Apple Pippin was the first out of the box with built in online.

-Guru Larry (Larry Bundy Jr.) had a video that blew my mind about things I thought Nintendo did first, including the NES controller.

(I keep having to flip back to the last page to see the post)

It never get old "Nintendo invent and Sony rip-off". Then you show it was done 10 or more years before Nintendo and radio silence.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Wyrdness said:
Immersiveunreality said:

Can you educate me on how FF7 was money-hatted ?

Sony gave Squaresoft a vastly reduced licensing fee and agreed to handle the marketing campaign as well as give Square some of the funding in exchange Sony also obtained a small share percentage in the company which they later increased to 18% when the FF movie and animes flopped as those caused Square to ask for money, this was one factor behind the merger with Enix as it reduced Sony's stake in them giving the latter less influence in decisions. Sony would later sell their shares as they no longer would have any say after the merger as it reduced their stake to about 8% (a link on them selling the shares below)

https://venturebeat.com/2014/04/16/sony-is-selling-off-all-its-shares-in-final-fantasy-publisher-square-enix/

Giving a company a more attractive business deal, with more opportunity for success, isn't "money-hatting". That same misconception could be errantly applied to all PS1 third party support, because PS1 introduced lower licensing fees across the board compared to Nintendo. Asking for less of a cut, does not, AT ALL, equate to "money-hatting". To say nothing for the inherent benefits of cost reduction the CD medium provided over carts. There were reasons why so many 3rd parties went to PS in that era, and most of them didn't involve direct payments from Sony. Also, you're saying "Sony gave Squaresoft a vastly reduced licensing fee" on FF VII. Vastly? The fee was already low. I'd appreciate a source on that to see how much it was reduced from the standard percentage. 



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

COKTOE said:
Wyrdness said:

Sony gave Squaresoft a vastly reduced licensing fee and agreed to handle the marketing campaign as well as give Square some of the funding in exchange Sony also obtained a small share percentage in the company which they later increased to 18% when the FF movie and animes flopped as those caused Square to ask for money, this was one factor behind the merger with Enix as it reduced Sony's stake in them giving the latter less influence in decisions. Sony would later sell their shares as they no longer would have any say after the merger as it reduced their stake to about 8% (a link on them selling the shares below)

https://venturebeat.com/2014/04/16/sony-is-selling-off-all-its-shares-in-final-fantasy-publisher-square-enix/

Giving a company a more attractive business deal, with more opportunity for success, isn't "money-hatting". That same misconception could be errantly applied to all PS1 third party support, because PS1 introduced lower licensing fees across the board compared to Nintendo. Asking for less of a cut, does not, AT ALL, equate to "money-hatting". To say nothing for the inherent benefits of cost reduction the CD medium provided over carts. There were reasons why so many 3rd parties went to PS in that era, and most of them didn't involve direct payments from Sony. Also, you're saying "Sony gave Squaresoft a vastly reduced licensing fee" on FF VII. Vastly? The fee was already low. I'd appreciate a source on that to see how much it was reduced from the standard percentage. 

Like every game this gen that didn't appear on X1 or Switch was accused of being moneyhatted by Sony simply because the dev or pub thought that would make more money. Even if Sony never gave a cent to them.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Jumpin said:

It wasn’t until 1997 that PSX became the leading console. And much of that had to do with Nintendo suddenly cutting support for the SNES, which probably should have been more of a wind-down. 1996 was a big year for SNES, and then there was nothing. It makes me wonder if Nintendo ordered third parties to stop supporting the SNES in early 1997 (even earlier, end of 1996 in the US).

The main reason is because Nintendo made such bad decisions with the N64 and GameCube. If Nintendo hadn’t gone with ultra-expensive cartridges, they would have held onto the major 3rd parties that Sony gained.

It’s kind of a no brainer for consumers when you see a console with 20 games vs one with 500 games, and the one with 500 games is selling them from between 1/2 to 1/5th the price.

The PSX and were was also the more interesting and compelling platform, as it didn’t have the perceived limits of the N64 and GameCube. Also, PS2 has a killer app with Grand Theft Auto 3 and the series that followed. Interestingly enough, from one of Nintendo’s former Dream Team second party Devs DMA (Space Station Silicon Valley, Uniracers, and Body Harvest) who Nintendo effectively kicked off the team during the N64 gen.

I think PS2’s sleek look also helped it against the ugly Xbox and GameCube designs.

PS3 failed for against Wii for kind of similar reasons. Wii was sleek, compelling, and had a high volume of games compared to its competitors. On top of that, the competitors were too expensive. Sony was saying things like “People will pay this expensive price because they will want to in order to play our games.” And while some did, most bought Wiis and DS Lites instead.

Anyway, I’d say that Sony’s dominance has ended with the release of the Switch, as Switch has been the top console of the market for a while now, with the PS4 only occasionally catching up. Again, PS4 got lucky that Nintendo screwed up so badly with the late Wii generation and throwing support instead behind another monumental fuck-up: the Wii U.

Nintendo has been known for borderline draconian practices to both consumers and developers since famicom era,  especially during the 8bit and 16 bit era including high licence fees to developers, limitations on what they can make in terms/censorship, certain features such as wii virtual console not been released in a lot countries in asia, 3ds released in Hong kong with region lock and only 55 games released,   combination of this practices (as well which you mentioned above) as causes some developers to limit nintendo games development, nowadays they are more friendly towards 3rd party developers and consumers to a certain extent.



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with lower licencing fees and more developer friendly stance, the developers get more chance and more importantly less risk to try more experimental games, such as sound shapes, vib ribbon, journey, catherine, tokyo jungle, Katamari Damacy etc, noted that microsoft does similar practices and hence why they also receive these games



DonFerrari said:
COKTOE said:

Giving a company a more attractive business deal, with more opportunity for success, isn't "money-hatting". That same misconception could be errantly applied to all PS1 third party support, because PS1 introduced lower licensing fees across the board compared to Nintendo. Asking for less of a cut, does not, AT ALL, equate to "money-hatting". To say nothing for the inherent benefits of cost reduction the CD medium provided over carts. There were reasons why so many 3rd parties went to PS in that era, and most of them didn't involve direct payments from Sony. Also, you're saying "Sony gave Squaresoft a vastly reduced licensing fee" on FF VII. Vastly? The fee was already low. I'd appreciate a source on that to see how much it was reduced from the standard percentage. 

Like every game this gen that didn't appear on X1 or Switch was accused of being moneyhatted by Sony simply because the dev or pub thought that would make more money. Even if Sony never gave a cent to them.

Well, the current climate is quite different. I'm not privy to current licensing fees, but I'd assume they're basically at parity. Most PS4 games that didn't make their way to the XBO likely didn't do so because they were A: Japanese games, and the XBO has little importance in Japan, and B: In conjunction with this, it has a significantly lower install base. And I guess also C: Even in the west, localized Japanese games will sell disproportionately better on PS4.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

Pyro as Bill said:
EnricoPallazzo said:
...... will have the best library of first party games which have been built since PS1 and most likely will be increased during the generation.....

must......not......get.....myself.....banned

I believe you are going to say Xbox has the best first party library? Probably not...

So you are going to say nintendo? switch is a different beast and just like the wii, in my opinion it will be just a second system for most gamers. I believe people that only have a switch and nothing else will be a minority, because, as you know, most third party games wont be there and the ones who goes there unfortunately pales in comparisson to their PS/Xbox counterparts. With the new generation now the gap will be even bigger.



Shadow1980 said:
Because they were around in the right place at the right time, and avoided making the same mistakes Nintendo and Sega did.


This pretty much summarizes the thread



Nintendo and Sony are dominating the console market