Forums - Sony Discussion - Unreal Engine 5 Announced + PS5 Demo

I don't know who is claiming that the SSD is the only thing that matters.

Flops are a measurement of one aspect of the GPU. There are a lot of other aspects like ROPs, VRAM (on PC), and these don't necessarily scale with Flops. And these aren't even necessarily very telling. Mostly dependent on architectures.

I think it's better to think of bottlenecks in terms of applications instead of systems. Or in a different way of saying that is that there usually isn't a "bottleneck" in a system. There is a bottleneck for an application. For example a CPU intensive game can be bottlenecked by the CPU on the same hardware that another game finds the GPU to be a bottleneck. Like Skyrim on the PS3 was early on largely bottlenecked by the RAM, another game like Uncharted probably tended to find the GPU as the bottleneck.

The reality is probably that third party games won't take advantage of the SSD to it's full extent, and they will probably find their applications bottlenecked by the GPU.

First party will probably take full advantage of the SSD, and I'm sure one of them will meet a situation where the GPU and SSD are meeting each other.

None of that means that the SSD was a bad choice. It still offers good benefits even if it doesn't get used to it's full capacity all the time.



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Captain_Yuri said:
twintail said:

I don't think it's silly that a dev would go PS5 only. 

We've seen it happen countless times this gen, and I'm sure it'll continue into next. That said, there is definitely a difference between building you game to require the PS5 SSD to actually function, and using the PS5 SSD to just enhance the overall experience.

The latter could very easily happen with a lot of multiplatform games without requiring a lot of effort on the devs part. But I stress 'could' because of course I don't actually know how devs are finding development atm. 

I would like to see a list of how many since I am curious. Usually it's either Ps4 and Xbox exclusive or Ps4 and PC exclusive or maybe even Ps4 and Switch exclusive. And sometimes, it's ps4 timed exclusive which then eventually gets ported.

And yea, we will see how it goes. I have a feeling that while the SSD is gonna be a game changer in game design and etc, the GPU's capabilities specially at high resolutions will put a limit to it's usefulness outside of first party games. Could be wrong though of course since it's all speculation.

I wasn't considering PC, sorry.



twintail said:
Captain_Yuri said:

I would like to see a list of how many since I am curious. Usually it's either Ps4 and Xbox exclusive or Ps4 and PC exclusive or maybe even Ps4 and Switch exclusive. And sometimes, it's ps4 timed exclusive which then eventually gets ported.

And yea, we will see how it goes. I have a feeling that while the SSD is gonna be a game changer in game design and etc, the GPU's capabilities specially at high resolutions will put a limit to it's usefulness outside of first party games. Could be wrong though of course since it's all speculation.

I wasn't considering PC, sorry.

No problem. I was just wondering myself.



             

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CGI-Quality said:
chakkra said:

The gap between 2080 TI and RTX Titan is 14.2 to 16.3 TFs, which is a %15 difference, and Titan still manages to consistently over perform it. So that actually helps to prove my statement that more TFs within the same arquitecture equals more performance.

So yeah, I think one of them might end up being wrong in their approach. What I don't understand is why you seem so upset about the possibility of Sony being wrong. I mean, the worst that could happen is that the PS5 could end up with bandwith to spare. I see no harm there.

The flops difference between the Founders Edition 2080Ti and TITAN RTX is exactly as I stated (13.5/16.3 — you got your info from Gamesradar, who is incorrect), but even if I were to humor the higher number, it still doesn't really kill the point. And I stand by it that i have not seen anyone saying the SSDs are either the only things that matter nor the most important. No, not implying it either. People are arguing that they play a seriously important role in the upcoming generation (and they are absolutely correct).

Anyway, in regards to flops, as a tech guy, used to working with hardware on a more surgical basis, I'm vocal about them for a reason. On top of that, I listen closely to other informed tech guys, such as techradar, who state...

"So teraflops are a convenient and all-encompassing measurement of graphical power on a games console or GPU. But as is often the case with computing, the reality isn’t quite as simple and you probably shouldn’t use tflops as the ultimate barometer when researching your next GPU or console."

Sure, perhaps saying "they don't matter at all" is a stretch, but in the grand scheme of architecture, game development, and throughput, they are simply a baseline of theory. I know 'more flops' sounds nice, but the way these consoles will work (or any console, for that matter) isn't/won't be in theory. Rather, how the intertwined anatomy of each device flows and functions to pump out the goods. Flops sit beside "bits" in the gaming world — fun to discuss, theoretical at best. It isn't that one (or both) of the manufacturers will be "wrong in their approach". One will simply be more efficient (there's always going to be a winner, no matter how good each device is crafted, that's just science). Both will be master crafts in console architecture, regardless of theoretical performance.

And, I'm not upset about anything which is why I continue trying to inform you better on this topic. :P

Just butting in, I do remember several instances where Pema have put exactly same architeture with over 10% difference on Tflop that either had almost equal performance or the one with lower TF outperforming the one with more, because Tflop only measured single precision float point while GPU have much more than that when used for gaming and not everything will scale linearly and be on same proportion as the TF.

For something as Tflop to be used to tell the difference between two cards likely you would need everything absolutely equal except Tflop being higher or lower.



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Didn't see anyone saying or implying I/O architecture (SSD is a misnomer) is the only thing that matters. But yes, it's the main talking point right now for pretty simple and straightforward reasons:

1. It's by a big margin the most significant difference between the two next gen consoles. PS5's I/O is so advanced, it's putting highend PCs to shame. In no world is that a small feat.

2. People talk about it because developers are fawning all over it, they're in a semi-universal agreement that I/O improvement is thee gamechanger. Why on earth would I cling onto some theoreticals, completely ignoring the experts in the know?

3. PS5's I/O architecture virtually jumped TWO generations over PS4's. It sort of caught developers offguard, but in a good way.

4. Playstation has a much bigger fanbase. Shocking!



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PC can still get back the leadership on the whole texture pipeline using a fast enough SSD and making up for the missing specialised PS5 IO with far larger RAM, using large portions of it to cache a lot of textures, and faster GPUs, to actually be able to fully use all those available data. Anyhow, the PS5 solution will still keep a huge lead on PCs with the same CPU and GPU power and the same RAM size.



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vivster said:
This demo had no vegetation.

That's my only complaint about this demo.



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