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Forums - Sony Discussion - SPOILERS The Last Of Us P2 SPOILERS

sales2099 on 29 April 2020
SecondWar said:
A lot of the criticism I’ve seen I feel is an over-reaction. You’ve not even seen some of the characters before, let they game actually introduce them and build them up before saying you don’t care about them. That said, it does seem odd that Joel seemingly isn’t a playable character. A lot of it seems to be driven by a negative reaction to Ellie being a lesbian, and calling it pandering - whereas Ellie is actually a great example of a game not pandering this sort of thing. I’ve seen a rumour about Abby’s character though that I’m not sure if it’s true, but it seems to add more fuel to the fire.

Naughty Dog have definitely taken a big risk here, if the stuff about Joel is true I’ll give them probs for taking the story in that direction, rather than having a more typical story. It is the sort of one that will invoke a reaction as the fanbase is attached to him.

?? Most of the reaction isn’t the lesbian aspect. It’s the killing of characters by a shoehorned in rando. Plus the absurdity that pronouns matter in the apocalypse. Based on Druckmans politics, not playing as Joel makes plenty sense.  

To any mods, that’s why it’s impossible to separate ND politics from the game criticism. It’s their very politics that sealed Joel’s fate. He never stood a chance. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 29 April 2020

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sales2099 on 29 April 2020
chakkra said:
abronn627 said:

Not really, it's easy to look at the Fireflies like the good guys wanting to save humanity, but with all that happened over the years, everyone or every groups are walking the fine line of being good or bad. The military was prone to act like a totalitarian state while also providing some form of safety and security, while the Fireflies were offering freedom and justice, but also bordering on anarchy which basically caused the fall of the Pittsburgh quarantine zone.

There was no way for Joel to know if by killing Ellie, without even let her the time to regain consciousness and make her own informed decision, they will actually find a cure. And if they were able to, how can he be sure that they will not use it for their own agenda. What is clear from Joel's action, is that he beleive that humanity as reached a point of no return and sacrificing the girl he developped feeling for, will serve nothing.

Including both Ellie and Joel. I don't know why people want them to be immune to the rules of the world. Like I said before, actions bring consequences.

This actually reminds of the scene in Kill Bill were the bride kills the black woman in front of her daughter then looks a the little girl and tells her "If you're still mad about this in 20 years, I will be waiting."

See? The bride knew why she killed that woman and why she felt entitled to do so, but she also knew that the little kid will have a reason to want to kill her as well.

Except Tarantino never made a sequel where the daughter grows up and kills Beatrix because thats stupid. The fans don’t care about a rando daughter of a victim we barely saw. The fans care about the main protagonist. 



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chakkra on 29 April 2020
sales2099 said:
chakkra said:

Including both Ellie and Joel. I don't know why people want them to be immune to the rules of the world. Like I said before, actions bring consequences.

This actually reminds of the scene in Kill Bill were the bride kills the black woman in front of her daughter then looks a the little girl and tells her "If you're still mad about this in 20 years, I will be waiting."

See? The bride knew why she killed that woman and why she felt entitled to do so, but she also knew that the little kid will have a reason to want to kill her as well.

Except Tarantino never made a sequel where the daughter grows up and kills Beatrix because thats stupid. The fans don’t care about a rando daughter of a victim we barely saw. The fans care about the main protagonist. 

Fair enough, maybe for me is so easy to fathom because apparently I am one of the few people who actually hated Joel at the end and wanted to see him pay for what he did.



sales2099 on 29 April 2020
chakkra said:
sales2099 said:

Except Tarantino never made a sequel where the daughter grows up and kills Beatrix because thats stupid. The fans don’t care about a rando daughter of a victim we barely saw. The fans care about the main protagonist. 

Fair enough, maybe for me is so easy to fathom because apparently I am one of the few people who actually hated Joel at the end and wanted to see him pay for what he did.

Sorry if I was aggressive. I didn’t like his actions near the end either, but most people got invested in his nuance and character development. But now I have the feeling he was deemed expendable because he’s a “straight white man”. The fact that was a possibility among the writers makes me uneasy that the story was shaped around that. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 29 April 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

kirby007 on 29 April 2020

What bothers me is the my way or the highway attitude coupled with the indoctrination within ND leadership, please just go back to jak & daxter



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Leynos on 29 April 2020
kirby007 said:
What bothers me is the my way or the highway attitude coupled with the indoctrination within ND leadership, please just go back to jak & daxter

NO FUN ALLOWED! Only deep soul pain in your video games dammit!

Niel is the new version of edgy. It's no longer David Jaffe swearing and muscle men killing women. Now it's swearing and muscle women killing women. Progress!



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Azzanation on 30 April 2020
shikamaru317 said:
Azzanation said:

I dont believe this is real, reading through alot of the spoilers and it just sounds off to me.
Why would a well respected company opt for this direction?
I think these leaks are fake.

SPOLIER
If these leaks are true than TLOU2 is basiaclly evil Catholics vs LGBTs.

Worth noting that there was a different leak about a week ago that said exactly that, the plot revolved around a Christian based religious cult. 

https://www.vg247.com/2020/04/21/the-last-of-us-part-2-christian-cult/

We've now had 2 slightly different leaks suggesting roughly the same thing. Either they're both fake, or the saying "where there is smoke there is fire" holds true and the game really is about that. Frankly, considering how SJW Naughty Dog (and Sony in general) has been growing in recent years, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the game really is designed to be anti-Christian. 

Yeah iv been hearing the same things, its a very strange direction and some times makes you think that someone at ND is heavily regilous against Christians or is part of the LGBT+ community and want to show it in the game.. maybe i am over thinking it but from all the leaks i wouldnt be suprised at all.



KratosLives on 30 April 2020
sales2099 said:
KratosLives said:

You do realize there is a skip cutscene button?  the technical marvel and gameplay alone is worth the price.

You right the game will sell millions regardless. However this is a narrative driven game. If people know they won’t like the story, the motivation isn’t there and thus you are just playing as whoever killing whoever with no attachment to enjoy it. It’s not the optimal experience. 

Thats not entritely true. When i firs tplayed through mgs1 when i was young, young enough to not comprehend most of what was going on in the game, except for go here and do that,  i had no idea what snake was blabbering about or the story arc, but i was so intrigued with it, fell in love with the gameplay. Same with mgs2, i was in it for the technical brilliance and gameplay, i wasn't bothered by the slightest to be playing as raiden. I can easily shut things off in my head. If i don;t like the direction of the story, i won't think about it and just play the game for the fun of it. 



KratosLives on 30 April 2020
Azzanation said:
shikamaru317 said:

Worth noting that there was a different leak about a week ago that said exactly that, the plot revolved around a Christian based religious cult. 

https://www.vg247.com/2020/04/21/the-last-of-us-part-2-christian-cult/

We've now had 2 slightly different leaks suggesting roughly the same thing. Either they're both fake, or the saying "where there is smoke there is fire" holds true and the game really is about that. Frankly, considering how SJW Naughty Dog (and Sony in general) has been growing in recent years, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the game really is designed to be anti-Christian. 

Yeah iv been hearing the same things, its a very strange direction and some times makes you think that someone at ND is heavily regilous against Christians or is part of the LGBT+ community and want to show it in the game.. maybe i am over thinking it but from all the leaks i wouldnt be suprised at all.

Neil druckmann doesn't like straight white christians, judging by what he said, or atleast perceived as one. He said he is jewish yet by default seen as a christian. He was either implying people see him as a non progressive white christian or he sees him self as one. I didn't know that most white straight male christians are something to be ashamed of. I feel like most of them are law abiding citizens, who make up out many doctors, teachers, professors, lawyers, labourers, pizza owners down in new york, etc.. they are found everywhere etc..  This idea that christian males aren't tolerate to lgbt or something along the lines as a representation,  i feel Neil is abit deranged. 



KratosLives on 30 April 2020
SecondWar said:
sub-zero-TM said:

And the reason i used that random guy from the train level is to prove a point it's because he's a nobody an unimportant/insignificant character. So apparently Abby's parents (that roided up girl or a guy or who the heck knows with Naughty Dog anymore) that you play as him/her for the other half of the game, his/her parents where one of the surgeons Joel kills in the first game while trying to save Ellie..

Now that's lazy storytelling at it's finest here.

How is that lazy story telling? Something a character did earlier in the series has a unintended and unforeseen consequence that comes back to bite them in the future. It adds more depth to the story.

He and haley gross didn't come up with that for that reason, considering that the event was pretty minor in the last of us or was shown in a way to be  a not so significant event. No one was crying over it. They are just using that reason to fill in narrative to make a reason for that character's existance. A character created not because heavy thought was gone into the story of ellie and joel, but for the sake of diversity and sake of breaking new ground, to appease other communities and get accolades for it.  Neil is giving us the game he and she wants, thinking of their own ideals and such, not taking into account what the fans want, in terms of story.