Duplicating data on a mechanical drive generally doesn't happen... It became a necessity on an Optical drive because of how much slower seek times were... Plus optical disks have a myriad of performance characteristics depending on where data is physically located on the optical disk.

Such issues tend to be lessened on a mechanical disk.

Fact is, games on Consoles, installed to a mechanical disk are generally a match for the PC's install size as well.. And I can assure you, there is no duplication of data going on there.

Smartshift is not going to be on Big Navi or RDNA2.
The technology requires a CPU and GPU and other logic to actually function in a single package.

What HSA does for memory coherency... Smartshift does for power coherency.

The GPU Peak is 2.23Ghz. It can sustain that provided the CPU and I/O aren't pegged at 100%.

So Cerny stated that when the CPU, GPU, I/O and all the other components are 100% pegged that it can sustain boost clocks indefinitely?

Then why have the boost clocks at all and why not just claim them as base clocks? AFAIK Cerny never made that claim.

Fair call. Thank you.
I think you will find that the majority of data is from uncompressed audio... Rather than duplicated data.

The hilarious part I find in all of this is how oblivious you are to the fact that Integer and Floating Point are different... At-least this time you have attempted to make the distinction, perhaps you were confused or didn't convery yourself earlier? Who knows.

Integers can also have different degrees of precision like INt4, INT8, INT16 and so forth.

Either way... Educate yourself on the difference between Integer or Floating Point before we take this discussion any further, otherwise it's pointless if you cannot grasp basic computing fundamentals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating-point_arithmetic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer

https://www.dummies.com/programming/c/the-real-difference-between-integers-and-floating-point-values/

https://processing.org/examples/integersfloats.html

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13282/nvidia-turing-architecture-deep-dive/6

The more you know.

Teraflops is a standard. It's a standard that represents single precision floating point at it's basic form.

It's generally a theoretical, not a real-world denominator, but benchmarks exist that will provide a real-world extrapolation.

Except that idea falls flat on it's face when you start throwing other aspects into the equation.

Take a Geforce 1030... A DDR4 and GDDR5 variant exists, the Geforce 1030 even in floating point tasks will sometimes perform only half as fast.
We can duplicate this with the Radeon 7750 DDR3 vs GDDR5 and so on and so forth.

Ray Tracing requires some form of computer. If it uses floating point, it uses teraflops.
If it uses integers, then it uses integers... Because you seem to be an "expert" in the field who is all-knowing, tell me. What is it?

Teraflops is the same regardless of device. It's theoretical.

And using "kid" in the context you were using it in, is a derogatory term, either way, don't argue that point, move on.

I have had these debates before and provided the evidence.

So where are your facts?

Microsoft isn't using pure emulation to get Xbox 360 and Original Xbox games running on the Xbox One. Those are the facts.

Xbox 360 emulation is poor, not because people aren't interested in it... But because of a myriad of reasons.

You are quick to throw out the "facts" word but not willing to pony up evidence.

The Cell CPU is actually a very simple-in-order core design... It was "complex" not because of the instructions that need to be interpreted or translated, but due to the sheer number of cores and load balancing those, which when it comes time for emulation... Makes emulation much easier verses a monolithic core design.

Audio processing on PS3 is better than PS4? Better provide the evidence for that... Or your facts are just whack.

CPU couldn't be used to assist for GPU workloads? I guess all those draw calls just happened out of thin air... I guess post-process filters like morphological AA on the CPU never happened and more. - You will need to provide the evidence the CPU didn't assist the GPU... Otherwise your facts are just whack.

Don't give two hoots about cost. Give me the best, ditch the rest.

Price hasn't been revealed, might not be cheaper than Xbox Series X. (Another fact from me... To you.)

I think the Pro's and Con's of each console are well documented at this point.

Nice try turning it around. Other peoples preferences do not bother me.

Did you not read the part where I said I honestly don't care?

This is how I interpreted it hearing Cerny talk. There is some talk here and on GAF/Reeee that the PS5 is actually locked in terms of performance and can run in “boost” mode at all times... that’s obviously false, or else why have variable speeds that can affect performance? A CPU heavy game will affect the GPU performance. A GPU heavy game will affect the CPU. Those that utilize both will affect both. Meaning the more demanding a game is, the less performance you get out of the PS5 because it has to run at lower speeds.

It was interesting when he said you’d see at most around a 10% drop in performance, that would get you right around 9-9.2TF which was what the original leaks had PS5 at all along. So maybe they did see XSX specs and overclock it? Will be interesting to see the price and cooling.

Either way both consoles should be capable of pushing out good stuff. XSX will just look better.

That is not how the future will work. Strangely, noone has mentioned FreeSync in the presentations...

Either way... Educate yourself on the difference between Integer or Floating Point before we take this discussion any further, otherwise it's pointless if you cannot grasp basic computing fundamentals.

It's a standard that represents single precision floating point at it's basic form.

Except that idea falls flat on it's face when you start throwing other aspects into the equation.

I have had these debates before and provided the evidence.

So where are your facts?

Microsoft isn't using pure emulation to get Xbox 360 and Original Xbox games running on the Xbox One. Those are the facts.

The Cell CPU is actually a very simple-in-order core design... It was "complex" not because of the instructions that need to be interpreted or translated, but due to the sheer number of cores and load balancing those

Price hasn't been revealed, might not be cheaper than Xbox Series X. (Another fact from me... To you.)

Did you not read the part where I said I honestly don't care?

@DonFerrari

I didn’t understand anything incorrectly. You’re saying the same thing I did, you just didn’t apply numbers. Yes, he said a 10% drop in performance. Please tell me what 10% of 10.3 is and what you’re left with when you subtract that.

If you are going to use Wikipedia at least search for the proper term

Source 1

Clearly you are confusing the context in which I used the term.

That part is true. But they're not to be used for comparisons as a standard, because flops calculation and actual performance vary too much between devices.

It is because other aspects are the one changing your equation.

Because having different components affect flops measurement as well. You don't even need to change from the same model of gpu. Just compare an original AMD card vs other brand say Saphire, same model. Even by being the same chipset the difference in transistors between the two changes the actual performance. In addition to that you can have modifications over or under the original clock cycle settings affecting flops and performance. In the end you are essentially saying that every 2.4L engine performs equally across all car manufacturers without regarding who build it and how different they can be. Another example of what you are saying is that all cars with 200 horse power performs equally and run the same. That kind of logic fails.

Take AMD Radeon VII  13.8 tflops vs Nvidia 2080 10tflops, nvidia card ended performing better despite being the one with lesser tflops in computational power. A generation later AMD released the 5700 RX XT model with 9.7 tflops performing equally as the previous Radeon VII model, again this despite having lesser tflops computational power. My friend, you're very confused about Flops measurement. That is why is call a theoretical performance number not an actual one.

Source 1

Source 2

Source 3

I said Microsoft BC mode in Xbox one was a half cooked idea. Part of it comes from legacy features built-in in the gpu. The other part comes from emulating those via a software translator(hence emulation). You are debating yourself here, not me.

Source 1

"...the fact that certain aspects of the Xbox 360 hardware design are indeed built into the Xbox One processor - specifically, support for texture formats and audio. "It's what makes this sort of possible for us, because then we can take all of those shaders that we collect and we can package them and all the Enlightenments, and then we just go through and we do actual performance playthroughs to determine that the emulator is executing everything right."

It's not an easy task because fundamentally, the Xbox 360's PowerPC processor is worlds apart from Xbox One's x86 foundation. Floating point calculations need to be adapted from 40-bit to 32-bit..."

Source 2"...It may surprise you, but the lion’s share of Xbox One’s backwards compatibility (be it S or X) is handled by software, not the machine itself. “In order to make this happen, which we didn’t think was initially possible, we went ahead and built a virtual [Xbox] 360 entirely in software,” Bill Stillwell, who is a Microsoft platform lead, told Larry ‘Major Nelson’ Hryb on the Xbox icon’s YouTube show..."

"“...We had to bake some of the backwards compatibility support into the [Xbox One] silicon.” Considering the first back-compat 360 games didn’t hit Xbox One until 2015, that’s mightily impressive foresight..."

But you wanted facts...

You're contradicting yourself in you own very sentence. Either is simple or complex.

Even Mark Cerny stated PS3 was the more complex by having the longest term to learn and code.

Source

Where is your fact? TOTAL FAIL.

If you Honestly don't care, then why bother?

10% drop in power consumption with a couple percent frequency decrease with minimal performance drop.

Pema is the most vocal user on saying Tflops is an useless measure and that even on same architeture you can have lesser Tflop outperform higher because of other aspects of the card. So I guess you aren't understanding his point that Tflop is a direct theoretical maximum that always means the same (so 1 Tflop is always 1 Tflop, instead of a AMD Tflop is 0,6 NVidia Tflop or anything the like) but of course the real world perfomance will vary greatly and that is the gain in efficiency every gen see.

So you get a performance drop for intense games, whether it’s the CPU for games that heavily utilize the GPU or an actual TFLOP drop for games that utilize the CPU because the GPU needs to be throttled down. You can bicker about exact numbers even though Sony provided none, the person I quoted and myself have the correct understanding of what Cerny was saying.

It remains to be seen how often the system can actually run at full power. Logic would dictate not often, otherwise there would be no need for a boost mode and variable frequencies. Remember this is the same guy who said like 8TF would be required for native 4K. It’s not like he’s infallible.

People smarter or at least more knowledgeable than us on this have said that if MS used the same method of varying frequencies, the XSX could get to like 14.6 TF. They aren’t, because it’s not smart. Sony will either have a very good, very expensive cooking solution in the PS5, or the console will not run at the max frequencies often.

Agreed.

I do understand that term will equal the same as long is compared to another theoretical measurement , without taking any device in context.

But never a flop measurement will be equal to the performance a device gives when compared to another (Ps3,360, ps4, ps4, amd, nvidia, etc)