Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Staring into the abyss of a world where Nintendo has no games scheduled for release. Edit: The Time of Darkness Has Arrived

NightlyPoe said:
zorg1000 said:

Read the convo I had with Cerebralbore101, it explains why I'm making the comparison and I'm not sure where you came up with me saying all releases are equal, can you point out where I ever said that?

Seemed you were just haranguing Cerebralbore for awhile about forgetting some titles this year.  Not sure what value that adds either way.

And how can one not interpret the idea of reshuffling the lineups and them looking the same if not thinking they have parity?

His argument was that 2020 is worse than previous years, im pointing out that its very similar to 2018 if you don't arbitrarily exclude certain titles from one year while including similar titles to the other year. I never once claimed either year was good or bad.

I'm still confused how you think i said all releases are equal? If all titles were equal than reshuffling the lineup would not be necessary, i would have just left them they way they were.

Last edited by zorg1000 - on 10 September 2020

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zorg1000 said:
like Rol said, 2020 is pretty similar to 2018 with the most notable difference being that one had its biggest game in Dec while the other was in March. Basically you can reshuffle the schedules and make them look the same.

2018 lineup (actual)
Feb-Bayonetta 2
March-Kirby Star Allies
April-Labo
May-Tropical Freeze/Hyrule Warriors
June-Mario Tennis Aces
July-Captain Toad/Octopath Traveler
Sept-Torna
Oct-Super Mario Party
Nov-Pokemon Lets Go
Dec-Smash Bros

2020 linuep (reshuffled)
Feb-Toyko Mirage Sessions
March-Pokemon Mystery Dungeon
April-Clubhouse Games
May-Pikmin 3/Xenoblade DE
June-Paper Mario
July-Bravely Default 2
Sept-Age of Calamity
Oct-Mario Kart Live
Nov-3D All Stars
Dec-Animal Crossing

I think you have to put it into context. At the started of 2018, the Switch wasn't even a year old yet. It had also come off the heels of a big Nintendo blow-out. Ports were more forgivable in 2018 because the system was still new and Nintendo needed to fill in the gaps. It should also be noted that the ports were gap fillers, often in the lighter months of the year. In 2020, the system is turn 3 years old and Nintendo EDA hasn't released much since 2017. Moreover, we have ports as headliners for the holiday season and nothing in sight. It's hard to call 2018 comparable to 2020 when the circumstances were forgivable. There is no reason Nintendo should be releasing ports of old games this late into the Switch's life. They should have new games ready to go. The issue is Nintendo should be performing far better than they actually are. 



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VideoGameAccountant said:
zorg1000 said:
like Rol said, 2020 is pretty similar to 2018 with the most notable difference being that one had its biggest game in Dec while the other was in March. Basically you can reshuffle the schedules and make them look the same.

2018 lineup (actual)
Feb-Bayonetta 2
March-Kirby Star Allies
April-Labo
May-Tropical Freeze/Hyrule Warriors
June-Mario Tennis Aces
July-Captain Toad/Octopath Traveler
Sept-Torna
Oct-Super Mario Party
Nov-Pokemon Lets Go
Dec-Smash Bros

2020 linuep (reshuffled)
Feb-Toyko Mirage Sessions
March-Pokemon Mystery Dungeon
April-Clubhouse Games
May-Pikmin 3/Xenoblade DE
June-Paper Mario
July-Bravely Default 2
Sept-Age of Calamity
Oct-Mario Kart Live
Nov-3D All Stars
Dec-Animal Crossing

I think you have to put it into context. At the started of 2018, the Switch wasn't even a year old yet. It had also come off the heels of a big Nintendo blow-out. Ports were more forgivable in 2018 because the system was still new and Nintendo needed to fill in the gaps. It should also be noted that the ports were gap fillers, often in the lighter months of the year. In 2020, the system is turn 3 years old and Nintendo EDA hasn't released much since 2017. Moreover, we have ports as headliners for the holiday season and nothing in sight. It's hard to call 2018 comparable to 2020 when the circumstances were forgivable. There is no reason Nintendo should be releasing ports of old games this late into the Switch's life. They should have new games ready to go. The issue is Nintendo should be performing far better than they actually are. 

Well if you want to talk about circumstances and putting things into context than let's talk about how 2020 is going through the worst pandemic in 100 years.

It almost seems as if Nintendo has all these Wii U ports ready and strategically releases them when there is a gap in the release schedule.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
NightlyPoe said:

Seemed you were just haranguing Cerebralbore for awhile about forgetting some titles this year.  Not sure what value that adds either way.

And how can one not interpret the idea of reshuffling the lineups and them looking the same if not thinking they have parity?

His argument was that 2020 is worse than previous years, im pointing out that its very similar to 2018 if you don't arbitrarily exclude certain titles from one year while including similar titles to the other year. I never once claimed either year was good or bad.

I'm still confused how you think i said all releases are equal? If all titles were equal than reshuffling the lineup would not be necessary, i would have just left them they way they were.

But you placed a bunch of new games up against ports.  Kirby against a remade GBA/DS game.  Mario Party against a toy.  Let's Go against a compilation.

Is it your opinion that those games are comparable or not?

Anyway, let's go ahead and just categorize to simplify.  Let me know if you have any objections:

2018 2020
System Sellers
1.  Smash Bros. Ultimate 1.  Animal Crossing: New Horizons
High-tier
1.  Pokemon Let's Go
2.  Super Mario Party
Mid-tier Games
1.  Kirby Star Allies 1.  Paper Mario: Origami King
2.  Mario Tennis Aces 2.  Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity*
Low-priority Games
1.  Torna: The Golden Country* 1.  Clubhouse Games
2.  Sushi Striker
3.  Octo Expansion*
Non-Game Toy Offerings
1.  Labo 1.  Mario Kart Live
High-selling Ports/Remakes
1.  Mario 3-D All-Stars
Regular Ports/Remakes
1.  Baynoetta 2 1.  Tokyo Mirage Sessions
2.  DKC: Tropical Freeze 2.  Pokemon Mystery Dungeon
3.  Hyrule Warriors 3.  Xenoblade
4.  Captain Toad 4.  Pikmin 3

I put a little star on the ones that are tougher calls.

-Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity might surprise and jump into the high-tier, but it's way too early to say it will.
-Torna, despite its origins as DLC, is borderline mid-tier.  Really, if it wasn't put in comparison with the rest of the Xenoblade series and hadn't started its life as DLC, it would be an easy call to put in the mid-tier.
-Octo Expansion is pure DLC, but is also a fairly complete game in and of itself.  It's borderline, take your choice.

Oh, and I didn't include Bravely Default II because it's still undated and there's a pretty good chance it slips into 2021 and it's only nominally Nintendo's and Octopath is all Square Enix.  Also, Cadence of Hyrule is mostly a physical release of a game we got last year.  The DLC inclusions don't seem significant enough to merit special rating it as a new release.

Anyway, the advantage in newness, at least from a quantity standpoint, is pretty strongly in favor of 2018.  The 2nd-tier games and unusually strong DLC* gave a lot more new stuff for players that year.  The one big advantage 2020 has is that Mario 3D All-Stars will probably be a pretty big seller.  Either way, there is a most definite objective difference between the two.

But really, we're still comparing bad to worse.  Neither year was all that great.  Heck, in 2016 when anyone interested in Nintendo was only looking for NX news, the lowly Wii U still managed to equal 2018 and almost double 2020 as far as new games go (outside Japan).  That's the sort of low bar we're talking about here in terms of quantity.

*Note:  I'm not just tossing in the DLC from 2018 and ignoring 2020.  The DLC this year has just been a lot more standard in the vein of adding a little bit to a pre-existing game whereas Torna was justifiably packaged as a full game and Octo Expansion conceivably could been have as well.

Last edited by NightlyPoe - on 10 September 2020

NightlyPoe said:
zorg1000 said:

His argument was that 2020 is worse than previous years, im pointing out that its very similar to 2018 if you don't arbitrarily exclude certain titles from one year while including similar titles to the other year. I never once claimed either year was good or bad.

I'm still confused how you think i said all releases are equal? If all titles were equal than reshuffling the lineup would not be necessary, i would have just left them they way they were.

But you placed a bunch of new games up against ports.  Kirby against a remade GBA/DS game.  Mario Party against a toy.  Let's Go against a compilation.

Is it your opinion that those games are comparable or not?

Anyway, let's go ahead and just categorize to simplify.  Let me know if you have any objections:

2018 2020
System Sellers
1.  Smash Bros. Ultimate 1.  Animal Crossing: New Horizons
High-tier
1.  Pokemon Let's Go
2.  Super Mario Party
Mid-tier Games
1.  Kirby Star Allies 1.  Paper Mario: Origami King
2.  Mario Tennis Aces 2.  Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity*
Low-priority Games
1.  Torna: The Golden Country* 1.  Clubhouse Games
2.  Sushi Striker
3.  Octo Expansion*
Non-Game Toy Offerings
1.  Labo 1.  Mario Kart Live
High-selling Ports/Remakes
1.  Mario 3-D All-Stars
Regular Ports/Remakes
1.  Baynoetta 2 1.  Tokyo Mirage Sessions
2.  DKC: Tropical Freeze 2.  Pokemon Mystery Dungeon
3.  Hyrule Warriors 3.  Xenoblade
4.  Captain Toad 4.  Pikmin 3

I put a little star on the ones that are tougher calls.

-Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity might surprise and jump into the high-tier, but it's way too early to say it will.
-Torna, despite its origins as DLC, is borderline mid-tier.  Really, if it wasn't put in comparison with the rest of the Xenoblade series and hadn't started its life as DLC, it would be an easy call to put in the mid-tier.
-Octo Expansion is pure DLC, but is also a fairly complete game in and of itself.  It's borderline, take your choice.

Oh, and I didn't include Bravely Default II because it's still undated and there's a pretty good chance it slips into 2021 and it's only nominally Nintendo's and Octopath is all Square Enix.  Also, Cadence of Hyrule is mostly a physical release of a game we got last year.  The DLC inclusions don't seem significant enough to merit special rating it as a new release.

Anyway, the advantage in newness, at least from a quantity standpoint, is pretty strongly in favor of 2018.  The 2nd-tier games and unusually strong DLC* gave a lot more new stuff for players that year.  The one big advantage 2020 has is that Mario 3D All-Stars will probably be a pretty big seller.  Either way, there is a most definite objective difference between the two.

But really, we're still comparing bad to worse.  Neither year was all that great.  Heck, in 2016 when anyone interested in Nintendo was only looking for NX news, the lowly Wii U still managed to equal 2018 and almost double 2020 as far as new games go (outside Japan).  That's the sort of low bar we're talking about here in terms of quantity.

*Note:  I'm not just tossing in the DLC from 2018 and ignoring 2020.  The DLC this year has just been a lot more standard in the vein of adding a little bit to a pre-existing game whereas Torna was justifiably packaged as a full game and Octo Expansion conceivably could been have as well.

Define "a bunch"

Kirby vs Mystery Dungeon is a new game vs a remake

Lets Go vs All Stars is a remake vs remaster compilation

Mario Party vs Mario Kart Live is a family minigame compilation vs a family race car game

I fail to see where I placed a bunch of ports vs new games. If anything you are being inconsistent by considering Mystery Dungeon just a GBA/DS remake while Lets Go is a brand new game.

And how is two multiplayer Mario spinoffs aimed at casuals/families not a relevant comparison?

Also if you are going to include Torna/Octo Expansion than its only fair to include Isle of Armor/Crown Tundra.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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NightlyPoe said:

There are no goalposts.

It's impossible to change your criteria when you never had any to begin with.



zorg1000 said:

Define "a bunch"

I would define more than half as a bunch.

I fail to see where I placed a bunch of ports vs new games. If anything you are being inconsistent by considering Mystery Dungeon just a GBA/DS remake while Lets Go is a brand new game.

Sheesh, you leave out any caveat and people try to go through it.

I figured it would be obvious that Let's Go is significantly different than Mystery Dungeon considering one is a fairly faithful remake and the other is a whole new spin-off series with its own distinct gameplay and different intended audience.

I know they both use the basic same Kanto region structure, but who honestly thinks they're the same game?

And how is two multiplayer Mario spinoffs aimed at casuals/families not a relevant comparison?

One is the 8th best-selling game on the system and the other is a toy.  They don't even normally belong in the same department in the store.

If you were trying to compare apples to apples, I can't conceive of why you didn't pair the toy with the toy and stick it with Labo.

Also if you are going to include Torna/Octo Expansion than its only fair to include Isle of Armor/Crown Tundra.

I already covered why it wouldn't be.

*Note: I'm not just tossing in the DLC from 2018 and ignoring 2020. The DLC this year has just been a lot more standard in the vein of adding a little bit to a pre-existing game whereas Torna was justifiably packaged as a full game and Octo Expansion conceivably could been have as well.

I didn't include all DLC from either year (the DK expansion for Mario + Rabbids for example from 2018).  I only listed the DLC that felt like a complete game.  And the Sword/Shield DLC definitely falls into a category of simply supplementing an existing game.  Torna's an easy call as it got its own individual release and is a 20+ hour game.  I don't believe there's any controversy there and you didn't complain before.

Octo Expansion is borderline.  It didn't get its own release and isn't quite as meaty at a 10 hour experience.  If you wish to not include it, that's fine.  But it's definitely much more its own game than Isle of Armor/Crown Tundra.







NightlyPoe said:
zorg1000 said:

Define "a bunch"

I would define more than half as a bunch.

I fail to see where I placed a bunch of ports vs new games. If anything you are being inconsistent by considering Mystery Dungeon just a GBA/DS remake while Lets Go is a brand new game.

Sheesh, you leave out any caveat and people try to go through it.

I figured it would be obvious that Let's Go is significantly different than Mystery Dungeon considering one is a fairly faithful remake and the other is a whole new spin-off series with its own distinct gameplay and different intended audience.

I know they both use the basic same Kanto region structure, but who honestly thinks they're the same game?

And how is two multiplayer Mario spinoffs aimed at casuals/families not a relevant comparison?

One is the 8th best-selling game on the system and the other is a toy.  They don't even normally belong in the same department in the store.

If you were trying to compare apples to apples, I can't conceive of why you didn't pair the toy with the toy and stick it with Labo.

Also if you are going to include Torna/Octo Expansion than its only fair to include Isle of Armor/Crown Tundra.

I already covered why it wouldn't be.

*Note: I'm not just tossing in the DLC from 2018 and ignoring 2020. The DLC this year has just been a lot more standard in the vein of adding a little bit to a pre-existing game whereas Torna was justifiably packaged as a full game and Octo Expansion conceivably could been have as well.

I didn't include all DLC from either year (the DK expansion for Mario + Rabbids for example from 2018).  I only listed the DLC that felt like a complete game.  And the Sword/Shield DLC definitely falls into a category of simply supplementing an existing game.  Torna's an easy call as it got its own individual release and is a 20+ hour game.  I don't believe there's any controversy there and you didn't complain before.

Octo Expansion is borderline.  It didn't get its own release and isn't quite as meaty at a 10 hour experience.  If you wish to not include it, that's fine.  But it's definitely much more its own game than Isle of Armor/Crown Tundra.





What do you mean more than half? At most I compared 2 new games to ports/remasters.

Saying Mario Kart Live is just a toy is like saying Mario Party is just a board game.

https://howlongtobeat.com/game?id=54689

https://mail.howlongtobeat.com/game?id=74106

According to this, Octo Expansion (7.5-14 hours) and Isle of Armor (5-15.5 hours) are about the same.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:

What do you mean more than half? At most I compared 2 new games to ports/remasters.

Fine, I'll amend to ports and non-game toys.  Why the tedious semantics?

Saying Mario Kart Live is just a toy is like saying Mario Party is just a board game.

That statement makes zero sense.

According to this, Octo Expansion (7.5-14 hours) and Isle of Armor (5-15.5 hours) are about the same.

Posting for the 3rd time I suppose:

*Note: I'm not just tossing in the DLC from 2018 and ignoring 2020. The DLC this year has just been a lot more standard in the vein of adding a little bit to a pre-existing game whereas Torna was justifiably packaged as a full game and Octo Expansion conceivably could been have as well.

I used Octo Expansion's playtime as a point against it, not for it.  The above is what makes it borderline.



By what criteria do you consider Clubhouse games as "Low priority"?
If it's sales, then it's pretty clear it will outsell both MTA and Kirby, 2018's offering in your perceived higher tier. Tbh, it probably has a shot at outselling both Paper Mario and Hyrule warriors from this year.
If your criteria is critical acclaim, i believe it's sitting quite respectably in the low 80's on MC too.
This thread needs more objectivity.



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