Forums - Sony Discussion - PS5 GDC Reveal and PS5 specs/performance Digital Foundry Video analysis : 3.5 Ghz 8 core Zen 2 CPU along with 10.3 TF RDNA 2 RT capable and 16GB GDDR6 RAM and also super crazy fast 5.5 GB/Second S

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Total:41
DonFerrari said:
Intrinsic said:
  1. I am not saying that you get an HDD to run the games of from, I am saying you get a HDD as a backup drive. Copy games that you are done playing onto it fr whenever you may want to play them again so you can then move them back into your system drive. Which would be faster than redownloading or reinstalling from disk. Basically your game on the external HDD would work as if you have a disc copy of the game. 
  2. I don't know about MS "proprietary" SSD,I was under the impression that its just a 2230 M.2 SSD. In an enclosure. Thy use it for some of their devices and its a form factor that's found in some laptops too. I could be mistaken though.
  3. That's a lot of storage space you are packing. Well for me, knowing how I play games; I start a game, usually don't move way from it till I platinum it or I'm done with it and that's it. Never go back to play it again. Then I have a couple of resident games in my system. Usually Tekken and GT ( my idea of pciku and play games. 

    So for someone like me, just getting an external drive that I can use as a backup drive would be great for me.

Even if it was just that it is proprietary (which doesn't mean we can't see non authorized 3rd party cards).

The enclosure ensures form factor and thermal dissipation, plus the inside have the bandwidth ensured.

The SSD memory cards are propriety and made by Seagate. And you are right, it does ensure a heap of things.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-series-x-requires-proprietary-cards-to-expand/1100-6474802/



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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eva01beserk said:
DonFerrari said:

3,0 USB support for external drive, which could even be a cheaper large SSD if you decide as well. But I wouldn`t hope for automatic management of what goes to SSD or stay HDD since that would be external. Still if it allows you to play a game on the SSD while copying another that is perfectly fine for me.

dont really like external drives, if I had no choice I would use it sure, but would love for the ps5 to have an ssd slot and an hdd slot. Could add an hdd right on the spot and then wait for a good price sdd when ever they even come out. One extra terrabyte would be nice, but add 4terrabyte hdd on the spot wich would cost me under $100. I now have a 2T hdd on my ps4 And worked perfect, only had to remove a few games near the end wich where games i havent touched in years. I think 2tb ssd + 4tb hdd would be more than enouf for me and would look nice if it could all be internal. 

From what was show I doubt there will be any slot for PS5 HDD, only SSD will have slot (remember Sony talked about form factor being one of the restrictions when choosing a SSD expansion) more because it needs more than 3.0 connection. But for HDD 3.0 will be enough so you just plug it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Intrinsic said:
Pemalite said:

Because those drives are insufficient from a performance perspective to load next-gen games from.

Microsoft has taken a performance-guaranteed approach with it's propriety "memory cards". - But that will be more costly.

Sony however is not as propriety, but there isn't enough details to showcase how flexible it truly is or what it's costs are.

I actually like having all my games installed and updated... I have 20~ Terabytes worth of storage on the Xbox One X, 4 Terabytes on the Xbox 360... 50 Terabytes on my PC.

Shit could get expensive for me next gen if I spent $100 per Terabyte...

  1. I am not saying that you get an HDD to run the games of from, I am saying you get a HDD as a backup drive. Copy games that you are done playing onto it fr whenever you may want to play them again so you can then move them back into your system drive. Which would be faster than redownloading or reinstalling from disk. Basically your game on the external HDD would work as if you have a disc copy of the game. 
  2. I don't know about MS "proprietary" SSD,I was under the impression that its just a 2230 M.2 SSD. In an enclosure. Thy use it for some of their devices and its a form factor that's found in some laptops too. I could be mistaken though.
  3. That's a lot of storage space you are packing. Well for me, knowing how I play games; I start a game, usually don't move way from it till I platinum it or I'm done with it and that's it. Never go back to play it again. Then I have a couple of resident games in my system. Usually Tekken and GT ( my idea of pciku and play games. 

    So for someone like me, just getting an external drive that I can use as a backup drive would be great for me.
DonFerrari said:
Intrinsic said:
  1. I am not saying that you get an HDD to run the games of from, I am saying you get a HDD as a backup drive. Copy games that you are done playing onto it fr whenever you may want to play them again so you can then move them back into your system drive. Which would be faster than redownloading or reinstalling from disk. Basically your game on the external HDD would work as if you have a disc copy of the game. 
  2. I don't know about MS "proprietary" SSD,I was under the impression that its just a 2230 M.2 SSD. In an enclosure. Thy use it for some of their devices and its a form factor that's found in some laptops too. I could be mistaken though.
  3. That's a lot of storage space you are packing. Well for me, knowing how I play games; I start a game, usually don't move way from it till I platinum it or I'm done with it and that's it. Never go back to play it again. Then I have a couple of resident games in my system. Usually Tekken and GT ( my idea of pciku and play games. 

    So for someone like me, just getting an external drive that I can use as a backup drive would be great for me.

Even if it was just that it is proprietary (which doesn't mean we can't see non authorized 3rd party cards).

The enclosure ensures form factor and thermal dissipation, plus the inside have the bandwidth ensured.

While SNY's SSD tech may be somewhat more expensive than what MS is using, you'd think if a proprietary card was going to be in the same ballpark price wise, that SNY would have gone with that.

To me, SNY saw the price difference for creating something like MS has, and decided it was going to be way too expensive. Not just at launch either. For the effort SNY went to in creating some of the hardware, like the controller for the SSD, why they wouldn't go to the trouble of what MS did with a proprietary card says to me it's price that was the biggest problem.

That's not to say MS's card wouldn't be cheaper right off the bat based on it's tech, and maybe MS is willing to subsidize those cards to some degree. I also can't help but wonder if MS assumes most will just transfer over their existing external HDD's, or upgrade to a larger one based on the much cheaper market prices.

The cost over time also needs to be taken into account. A proprietary card only comes down in price a lot if MS keeps subsidizing it, or if they sell a boat load of consoles, while also convincing many to buy 1 card or more. Mass market gen 4 NVMe's will naturally drop in price much quicker, which also means lower prices, or faster speeds, and higher amounts of storage for the same old price as years go by.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 26 March 2020

EricHiggin said:
Intrinsic said:
  1. I am not saying that you get an HDD to run the games of from, I am saying you get a HDD as a backup drive. Copy games that you are done playing onto it fr whenever you may want to play them again so you can then move them back into your system drive. Which would be faster than redownloading or reinstalling from disk. Basically your game on the external HDD would work as if you have a disc copy of the game. 
  2. I don't know about MS "proprietary" SSD,I was under the impression that its just a 2230 M.2 SSD. In an enclosure. Thy use it for some of their devices and its a form factor that's found in some laptops too. I could be mistaken though.
  3. That's a lot of storage space you are packing. Well for me, knowing how I play games; I start a game, usually don't move way from it till I platinum it or I'm done with it and that's it. Never go back to play it again. Then I have a couple of resident games in my system. Usually Tekken and GT ( my idea of pciku and play games. 

    So for someone like me, just getting an external drive that I can use as a backup drive would be great for me.
DonFerrari said:

Even if it was just that it is proprietary (which doesn't mean we can't see non authorized 3rd party cards).

The enclosure ensures form factor and thermal dissipation, plus the inside have the bandwidth ensured.

While SNY's SSD tech may be somewhat more expensive than what MS is using, you'd think if a proprietary card was going to be in the same ballpark price wise, that SNY would have gone with that.

To me, SNY saw the price difference for creating something like MS has, and decided it was going to be way too expensive. Not just at launch either. For the effort SNY went to in creating some of the hardware, like the controller for the SSD, why they wouldn't go to the trouble of what MS did with a proprietary card says to me it's price that was the biggest problem.

That's not to say MS's card wouldn't be cheaper right off the bat based on it's tech, and maybe MS is willing to subsidize those cards to some degree. I also can't help but wonder if MS assumes most will just transfer over their existing external HDD's, or upgrade to a larger one based on the much cheaper market prices.

The cost over time also needs to be taken into account. A proprietary card only comes down in price a lot if MS keeps subsidizing it, or if they sell a boat load of consoles, while also convincing many to buy 1 card or more. Mass market gen 4 NVMe's will naturally drop in price much quicker, which also means lower prices or higher amounts of storage for the same old price as years go by.

Well the SSD for PS5 being twice the speed would probably mean it would cost more to manufacture than MS solution even with the heatsink and other stuff on the stick.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
EricHiggin said:

While SNY's SSD tech may be somewhat more expensive than what MS is using, you'd think if a proprietary card was going to be in the same ballpark price wise, that SNY would have gone with that.

To me, SNY saw the price difference for creating something like MS has, and decided it was going to be way too expensive. Not just at launch either. For the effort SNY went to in creating some of the hardware, like the controller for the SSD, why they wouldn't go to the trouble of what MS did with a proprietary card says to me it's price that was the biggest problem.

That's not to say MS's card wouldn't be cheaper right off the bat based on it's tech, and maybe MS is willing to subsidize those cards to some degree. I also can't help but wonder if MS assumes most will just transfer over their existing external HDD's, or upgrade to a larger one based on the much cheaper market prices.

The cost over time also needs to be taken into account. A proprietary card only comes down in price a lot if MS keeps subsidizing it, or if they sell a boat load of consoles, while also convincing many to buy 1 card or more. Mass market gen 4 NVMe's will naturally drop in price much quicker, which also means lower prices or higher amounts of storage for the same old price as years go by.

Well the SSD for PS5 being twice the speed would probably mean it would cost more to manufacture than MS solution even with the heatsink and other stuff on the stick.

Probably, yes.

Now however, SNY should not only have the cheaper option, but all the long term storage benefits, minus simplicity.

What will be available from MS in 3-4 years vs what SNY will have at it's disposal?



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EricHiggin said:

While SNY's SSD tech may be somewhat more expensive than what MS is using, you'd think if a proprietary card was going to be in the same ballpark price wise, that SNY would have gone with that.

To me, SNY saw the price difference for creating something like MS has, and decided it was going to be way too expensive. Not just at launch either. For the effort SNY went to in creating some of the hardware, like the controller for the SSD, why they wouldn't go to the trouble of what MS did with a proprietary card says to me it's price that was the biggest problem.

That's not to say MS's card wouldn't be cheaper right off the bat based on it's tech, and maybe MS is willing to subsidize those cards to some degree. I also can't help but wonder if MS assumes most will just transfer over their existing external HDD's, or upgrade to a larger one based on the much cheaper market prices.

The cost over time also needs to be taken into account. A proprietary card only comes down in price a lot if MS keeps subsidizing it, or if they sell a boat load of consoles, while also convincing many to buy 1 card or more. Mass market gen 4 NVMe's will naturally drop in price much quicker, which also means lower prices, or faster speeds, and higher amounts of storage for the same old price as years go by.

It would be more expensive for Sony to take the propriety-memory card approach compared to Microsoft... It has to guarantee twice the bandwidth in a small form factor. - Might even be logistically impossible given current technological trends.

I would assume Microsoft would not be willing to subsidize the cards... If we were to take a look at Microsoft's prior business models in the console space... They usually price the consoles cheaper, then make-up the difference on accessories and games... The OG Xbox for example had the DVD attachment, Xbox 360 had the Wifi Dongle, Detachable HDD, Memory Cards and so on. - The Xbox One was initially priced higher to avoid allot of that.

Xbox Series X could be a return to form on this front.

In saying that, it does mean that there is the potential for larger SSD's in the future as Microsoft's approach to SSD technology isn't as propriety, so they should in theory be able to take advantage in advancements in SSD controller and NAND faster as they become cheaper and/or larger.

Keep in mind these memory cards aren't using a plane-jane NVMe drive, it's in a propriety package... Heck. I don't even know what it's interface bus is yet. (Likely PCI-E based, but the possibility exists for something else.)



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

EricHiggin said:
DonFerrari said:

Well the SSD for PS5 being twice the speed would probably mean it would cost more to manufacture than MS solution even with the heatsink and other stuff on the stick.

Probably, yes.

Now however, SNY should not only have the cheaper option, but all the long term storage benefits, minus simplicity.

What will be available from MS in 3-4 years vs what SNY will have at it's disposal?

Both will have higher size and cost will most likely depend on how much MS is capable of selling versus PCI 4.0 becomes cheaper over time for PS5. So in 3 to 5 years certainly will be much cheaper to put an external SDD to PS5 than XSX for the same size and with PS5 being twice as fast.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

While SNY's SSD tech may be somewhat more expensive than what MS is using, you'd think if a proprietary card was going to be in the same ballpark price wise, that SNY would have gone with that.

To me, SNY saw the price difference for creating something like MS has, and decided it was going to be way too expensive. Not just at launch either. For the effort SNY went to in creating some of the hardware, like the controller for the SSD, why they wouldn't go to the trouble of what MS did with a proprietary card says to me it's price that was the biggest problem.

That's not to say MS's card wouldn't be cheaper right off the bat based on it's tech, and maybe MS is willing to subsidize those cards to some degree. I also can't help but wonder if MS assumes most will just transfer over their existing external HDD's, or upgrade to a larger one based on the much cheaper market prices.

The cost over time also needs to be taken into account. A proprietary card only comes down in price a lot if MS keeps subsidizing it, or if they sell a boat load of consoles, while also convincing many to buy 1 card or more. Mass market gen 4 NVMe's will naturally drop in price much quicker, which also means lower prices, or faster speeds, and higher amounts of storage for the same old price as years go by.

It would be more expensive for Sony to take the propriety-memory card approach compared to Microsoft... It has to guarantee twice the bandwidth in a small form factor. - Might even be logistically impossible given current technological trends.

I would assume Microsoft would not be willing to subsidize the cards... If we were to take a look at Microsoft's prior business models in the console space... They usually price the consoles cheaper, then make-up the difference on accessories and games... The OG Xbox for example had the DVD attachment, Xbox 360 had the Wifi Dongle, Detachable HDD, Memory Cards and so on. - The Xbox One was initially priced higher to avoid allot of that.

Xbox Series X could be a return to form on this front.

In saying that, it does mean that there is the potential for larger SSD's in the future as Microsoft's approach to SSD technology isn't as propriety, so they should in theory be able to take advantage in advancements in SSD controller and NAND faster as they become cheaper and/or larger.

Keep in mind these memory cards aren't using a plane-jane NVMe drive, it's in a propriety package... Heck. I don't even know what it's interface bus is yet. (Likely PCI-E based, but the possibility exists for something else.)

My impression from what I see is that the proprietary device for MS doesn't have a controller or anything to save on cost, it will only have chip, package and the connector, everything else will use what is already in the console.

Similar to how Sony will "highjack" the controller of the external SDD with the PS5 controller overhead.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
Pemalite said:

It would be more expensive for Sony to take the propriety-memory card approach compared to Microsoft... It has to guarantee twice the bandwidth in a small form factor. - Might even be logistically impossible given current technological trends.

I would assume Microsoft would not be willing to subsidize the cards... If we were to take a look at Microsoft's prior business models in the console space... They usually price the consoles cheaper, then make-up the difference on accessories and games... The OG Xbox for example had the DVD attachment, Xbox 360 had the Wifi Dongle, Detachable HDD, Memory Cards and so on. - The Xbox One was initially priced higher to avoid allot of that.

Xbox Series X could be a return to form on this front.

In saying that, it does mean that there is the potential for larger SSD's in the future as Microsoft's approach to SSD technology isn't as propriety, so they should in theory be able to take advantage in advancements in SSD controller and NAND faster as they become cheaper and/or larger.

Keep in mind these memory cards aren't using a plane-jane NVMe drive, it's in a propriety package... Heck. I don't even know what it's interface bus is yet. (Likely PCI-E based, but the possibility exists for something else.)

My impression from what I see is that the proprietary device for MS doesn't have a controller or anything to save on cost, it will only have chip, package and the connector, everything else will use what is already in the console.

Similar to how Sony will "highjack" the controller of the external SDD with the PS5 controller overhead.

The controller is in the console itself. the memory cards are just a grouping of NAND that interfaces with the onboard controller.

It saves on costs that way... As you will only need a single controller for all your memory cards rather than all your memory cards having a controller.

Not sure I get what you are saying with the PS5?



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

While SNY's SSD tech may be somewhat more expensive than what MS is using, you'd think if a proprietary card was going to be in the same ballpark price wise, that SNY would have gone with that.

To me, SNY saw the price difference for creating something like MS has, and decided it was going to be way too expensive. Not just at launch either. For the effort SNY went to in creating some of the hardware, like the controller for the SSD, why they wouldn't go to the trouble of what MS did with a proprietary card says to me it's price that was the biggest problem.

That's not to say MS's card wouldn't be cheaper right off the bat based on it's tech, and maybe MS is willing to subsidize those cards to some degree. I also can't help but wonder if MS assumes most will just transfer over their existing external HDD's, or upgrade to a larger one based on the much cheaper market prices.

The cost over time also needs to be taken into account. A proprietary card only comes down in price a lot if MS keeps subsidizing it, or if they sell a boat load of consoles, while also convincing many to buy 1 card or more. Mass market gen 4 NVMe's will naturally drop in price much quicker, which also means lower prices, or faster speeds, and higher amounts of storage for the same old price as years go by.

It would be more expensive for Sony to take the propriety-memory card approach compared to Microsoft... It has to guarantee twice the bandwidth in a small form factor. - Might even be logistically impossible given current technological trends.

I would assume Microsoft would not be willing to subsidize the cards... If we were to take a look at Microsoft's prior business models in the console space... They usually price the consoles cheaper, then make-up the difference on accessories and games... The OG Xbox for example had the DVD attachment, Xbox 360 had the Wifi Dongle, Detachable HDD, Memory Cards and so on. - The Xbox One was initially priced higher to avoid allot of that.

Xbox Series X could be a return to form on this front.

In saying that, it does mean that there is the potential for larger SSD's in the future as Microsoft's approach to SSD technology isn't as propriety, so they should in theory be able to take advantage in advancements in SSD controller and NAND faster as they become cheaper and/or larger.

Keep in mind these memory cards aren't using a plane-jane NVMe drive, it's in a propriety package... Heck. I don't even know what it's interface bus is yet. (Likely PCI-E based, but the possibility exists for something else.)

Well the MS/XBSX solution is tiny. Really tiny. I don't see why it couldn't be made the size of a typical SSD 2280 stick. If they don't want it sticking out of the console too much, just make the slot deeper. It would still easily fit in your pocket, and wouldn't get lost as easily. The other option would be to make a proprietary 2280 type stick, that's still internal and as cheap as possible, without the external features. Which still wouldn't be "cheap".

Back then you typically had little option to add third party devices for certain aspects of the console, so you had to buy their product. As long as third party external devices can be plugged into the rear USB 3.? port, that's going to be the go to option for most, even if they split the price difference and get an external SSD. I have a hard time believing that MS won't subsidize those cards to some degree because otherwise they probably won't sell that many. $500 for XBSX and even just $79 for a 1TB SSD expansion card seems nuts, let alone higher yet.

How much advancement will be made using existing hardware though other than when a potential upgrade comes along? Not much was done with storage this gen, even with SSD's being available, though they did help speed things up a little bit. Will MS bother since PS nor MS did last gen? Faster wasn't really a great point on my part now that I think more about it, for either company, other than that PS5 needs a min speed third party NVMe. As for cheaper and larger storage, they both will be able to benefit from that over time, I just see PS5 having the advantage as nothing will be proprietary and won't have a SNY 'tax' on it.