goopy20 said: Pretty amazing. Looks like this is the first time in history consoles will launch that aren't dated as soon as they hit the market. Will be interesting to see what the minimum pc requirements will be for the next gen multiplatform games. |
The 8th gen had GCN derived GPU's which weren't outdated as soon as the consoles launched... Just the PC had a ton more performance on top with the R9 200 series. (Which were still based on the same GCN architectural foundations as the consoles just with a few minor improvements.)
The Xbox 360 used the latest graphics technology... Especially for 2005, the PC by comparison had the x1800 series that same year, but the Xbox 360 introduced technology from the Radeon HD 2000 series which wasn't dropping until 2007. (I.E. Unified Shaders.)
The Playstation 3 by comparison was outdated before it released as nVidia released the Geforce 8000 series where-as the Playstation 3 leveraged Geforce 7000 technology.
The Original Xbox had a Geforce 3/4 Hybrid GPU with a 4:2:8:4 pipeline design. (Geforce 3 had a 4:1:8:4 layout) So it was more capable than the Geforce 3 in vertex operations.
JRPGfan said: The thing that "hit me" is the power effeciency claims. GCN that the PS4 uses, must be very poor, if the RDNA 1 is 50% more effecient, and RDNA2 is another 50% ontop of that.
This basically means Playstation 4, if it was made with RDNA2 and still at 16nm, would have like half the power draw.
CUH-2000 (PS4 slim newest model) already only uses like 47-90watts or so, while gameing. If you could cut that in half just from useing better GPU architecture.... jeeez.
Imagine if they actually could solve the compatability issues from new architecture.... and made a 7nm version of a PS4 super slim? It could probably be tiny and only sip like "20-30watts" while playing PS4 games. |
Graphics Core Next was decent back in 2013.
But around 2014 when nVidia dropped nVidia Maxwell... Graphics Core Next was behind significantly in terms of efficiency, AMD tried to brute force it's way forward by pushing for higher memory bandwidths and more compute units... But you can only take that so far.
Even with RDNA... AMD trails nVidia in efficiency. Significantly.
AMD Actually needs a whole process node shrink advantage to match nVidia in terms of efficiency.
Trumpstyle said:
As Github brought Oberon back from the dead another idea of mine is back from the dead. That it's possible that no insider actually knows the TF number for PS5, that they or their sources are guessing it based on game performance from the gpu inside the devkit. Based on my previous list, the insiders seems to believe ps5 is at ~11tf. An 9.2TF Rdna2 would only need 20% stronger TFs to be equal to 11TF Rdna1.
It's also possible that Oberon is just BC stuff and the 36CU/2ghz is just PS5 BC boost mode and nothing else or just outdated.
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Microsoft pretty much destroyed 99% of yours and others "predictions" you agreed with... Completely apart, when they revealed the Xbox Series X as being a 12 Teraflop machine.
You place to much emphasis on rumors, fake news, teraflops and hypotheticals rather than actual evidence and revealed information.
victor83fernandes said:
If the xbox series X is true, then it will surpass top gaming PCs of today, not just standard. Because games on consoles are optimized for the hardware, so they can always squeeze more from the hardware than on PCs.
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Lol. No.
victor83fernandes said:
In fact I was calculating how much would be to build a PC close to that power and its around 1000dollars (including the controller and 4K bluray).
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PC can play all previous generations of games though.
PC games are cheaper.
PC games are scalable across hardware... You don't need to match the consoles specifications (And thus come in at a lower price) to play the same games.
Nintendo did kinda' prove not everyone gives a crap about graphics you know.
victor83fernandes said:
thismeintiel said: Well, this proves that the old 9.2 Tflops Github leak is just that, old, as that was Navi 10. |
The new consoles will most likely be 9 TF, so that leak might be true. Only the pro versions will be 12 TF. There is no way they could magically be able to sell you a full 12 TF console for less than 600 dollars, with 500GB SSD, and 4K Bluray drive and at least 12 GB ram ddr4. That's impossible, Sony definitely said they wont take a loss on console sales like they did with ps3.
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The sooner the specs are revealed... The sooner we can finally discard the hardware and teraflop speculation, it's okay to actually say "we don't know".
victor83fernandes said:
But the base consoles will definitely be dated by January compared to PC.
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PC can run multiple graphics chips.
PC has nVidia GPU's and will have RTX 3000 series before next-gen consoles launched... So the Xbox Series X will definitely be a step down from what a high-end PC can achieve.
The base consoles will be several steps down.
Consoles will *never* be able to beat a PC on the hardware/technology from because...
1) PC's have higher TDP headroom.
2) PC's have higher cost headroom which allows for larger chips.
3) PC's have more Ram.
4) PC's are constantly improving every year.
5) Consoles use PC hardware.
victor83fernandes said:
But that's not a bad thing, that's actually amazing for the price, and we really do not need more than 9TF for gaming, because consoles get better optimization, imagine 12 TF, that's more than 10x the power of a ps4, a console that has Horizon, uncharted 4, Spiderman, God of war, no one needs more than 10x that power.
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The console optimization isn't significant though.
A Radeon 7870 is still going to be able to play the majority of Xbox One and Playstation 4 titles with similar level of visuals, some games it will be better, some games it will be worst... But by and large if you want a Playstation 4 or Xbox One experience on PC... A Radeon 7870 from 2012 will give you that.
If you want to drive visuals up beyond what the consoles offer, you obviously will need something more.
12 Teraflop isn't 10x the power of a Playstation 4, you are placing way to much emphasis on teraflops and not on the systems actual complete performance.
goopy20 said:
Yeah, it kinda looks like it. Haven't heard anything about Lockhart anymore, but wouldn't surprise me if that will be MS's base console. My guess is that most developers will go with ps5 as the base platform so 9Tf is still pretty amazing. I'm sure Pc will catch up quickly when AMD and Nvidia release their new gpu's. However, it's not just the gpu that will need upgrading this time around. Not many people have a 1tb SSD, which apparently works a bit different than the regular SSD's we see in pc's nowadays and will probably require a pci-e 4.0 mobo. Me for one am also still rocking a i5 8400, and I bought my pc like 8 months ago...
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PC already has hardware that will be faster than the un-released Next-Gen consoles.
The actual size of an SSD has no bearing on performance... You can have PCI-E 3.0 SSD's faster than PCI-E 4.0 SSD's.
The i5 8400 came out in 2017... And it was average even on it's release.
JRPGfan said:
Part of the reason 2080ti is so expensive is because its overpriced for its performance. Nvidia has the "performance crown" so it milks to the top of the line segment (your paying more than you should for its performance).
Another reason is because its on 12nm and has a huge die size.
Note : this isnt the same as me, saying that a 600$ console will beat a 2080ti. I'm just saying your reasoning isnt very good, its a bad argument.
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Correct. nVidia has the nVidia tax... When you have the best technology, you can charge extra for that.
12nm is based on a refined 16nm process which in turn was based upon a 20nm process... It's a false narrative when you assert that when something is built on a larger, older, 12nm process that it will somehow be more expensive, the reverse is often true.
Often an older process will be cheaper than the latest process due to less patterning, process maturity and so forth... For example AMD was using 12nm for it's I/O chip on the latest 7nm Ryzen processors... Why? Because it was cheaper... Where-as the CPU cores benefit greatly from the move to 7nm as the geometry scales well... And AMD can take advantage of higher clockrates.
JRPGfan said:
*edit: It'll be fun to see how close a 600$ 7nm console, can come to a 12nm 2080ti (currently ~1200$). consoles usually punch above their weight, so I think the differnces wouldnt be to big, if the xbox series x is really 12 TF.
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It will be even more fun to see how this years nVidia RTX 7nm GPU's against the 7nm consoles.
nVidia has been a generation ahead of AMD since Maxwell, so RDNA 2 and RTX 3000 series will prove interesting.
goopy20 said:
Next gen something like Ray Tracing will be a pretty big thing. Developers are basically calling it the holy grail of game development and for the first time ever, they will be able to take full advantage of it. Now, call me crazy but I don't think many people have a gpu that even supports ray tracing. The new SSD tech can also be a issue since HDD is still pretty standard on the average pc. https://www.pcgamesn.com/sony-ps5-ssd-console-pc-port-doom
In any case, recommended pc requirements will surely go up to match what's in these next gen consoles. But the good thing is that it will likely become a lot more affordable once Nvidia and AMD launch their new gpu's.
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The PC's requirement for an SSD is lesser than a console... The PC has more Ram.
Generally most PC's have an SSD for the OS anyway, even if people keep their games on mechanical storage... So swap space is still on the SSD which can assist with memory transactions.
Plus... We don't know if consoles will be 100% Solid state and not take a hybrid approach and use a mechanical disk for mass storage, don't count all your ducks in a row just yet.
Yes PC requirements will go up next-gen. Hopefully it might mean I can ditch the 2007~ era PC that has played most 8th gen games just fine, getting a little ridiculous.
goopy20 said:
Maybe that sounds absurd now, but they're saying the RTX3080 will be 33Tfops with much better RT performance, and I'm betting the RTX3060 will already play next gen games at native 4k and 60fps. One thing I do know for sure, though, is that the days of playing everything on ultra settings on my trusty GTX1060 will be over.
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You place to much emphasis on leaks and rumors.
Flops is irrelevant.
goopy20 said:
How are you going to turn RT off when we get games that are build from the ground up around it and use it as a gameplay mechanic? Currently, we don't have RT games, we just have RTX support for some titles that add some reflections and shadows to already existing games. Here's a simple example of what developers can do when they can actually use it as a gameplay mechanic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXwjwqAw3js
The minimum requirements will depend on if a developer chooses to make full use of the next gen hardware or not. But since RT and the SSD tech actually make game design easier, I don't see why developers wouldn't be taking full advantage of it from the start. Unless they're making cross-gen games, that is.
Also, I never said next gen consoles will hurt pc gaming, in fact it will be great for it. Who doesn't want to see games take a generational leap, instead of playing the same games we've been playing for 7 years now at 120fps and 4k? If that means I will finally have a reason to to upgrade my GTX1060, I will be more than happy to do so.
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Next-generation consoles will be using AMD's first generation of Ray Tracing... It's a bit of a false narrative to assume it will enable new gameplay mechanics when we have absolutely no idea of it's capabilities...
For all we know RDNA 2's Ray Tracing capability will be worse than the RTX 2060.
Older GPU's with no Ray Tracing cores are also still capable of doing Ray Tracing, they will just offer less performance, Ray Tracing is a compute issue at the end of the day.