By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Record Temperatures

ironmanDX said:
JRPGfan said:

Hmmm... I just read a online news paper, after checking this site.
And low and behold, theres a article about this.

20,75 degree's celcius messured at Antarctica.

Also apparently the last time, this much melt (in antarcitica) happend, was over 100,000 years ago (Eem-periode).
Back then sea levels were 3m higher than now.

Over 100,000 years ago? I wonder what caused it then? Obviously we are having an impact but I think there are certainly other factors at play.

Looking back, the world has gone under several changes, with or without humans.

I'm not a denier by any means but damn, the hysteria and the thinking that it's purely the fault of humans is a bit much. I heard a politician (AOC) say that the world will end in 12 years if we don't do something now. It really just distracts from the real issues by saying outrages things like that.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/did-a-comet-hit-earth-12900-years-ago/

Sometimes all it takes is a meteor strike, landing some place with lots of ice & snow.
They can carry massive amounts of energy, and generate alot of heat..... which can cause global riseing temps. and more importantly really high ones locally.

Once the energy disipates, a balance can be reestablished.
But for a periode, there can be alot of "melt" and higher sea levels, due to such a thing as say a meteor strike.


This time, we cant blame a giant hot peice of rock falling, for our raiseing global temptures.... or how much & how fast ice is melting.
Its just the greenhouse effect, of us polluting.

Supposedly this last big meteor strike some 12,900 years ago, is why USA + Canada isn't under mountains of snow right now.
If you had a time machine and could go back 14,000 years in time, you would see a much colder north america & canada.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 17 February 2020

Around the Network
Pemalite said:
ironmanDX said:

The issue stems from the rate of change that we are experiencing.

Prior climatic changes in Earths history tended to occur over longer time scales, thus allowing for flora and fauna to adapt to the changing conditions or thrive in specific geographical areas.

That isn't occurring this time around, we are able to count the rate of change on decade-long time scales rather than millenia-long time scales.
For example the last time we had global warming of 5-7'C, that took about 5,000 years.

The current rate of change is occurring 10-20x faster than what has occurred historically.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/GlobalWarming/page3.php

We are currently at 400~ ppm of CO2.

At about 1,000-1,500 ppm of CO2 we start to feel drowsiness. - We should hit that in the next 100~ years. (Frequently experience this level of CO2 as it's a normal environment when dealing with structural firefighting and confined spaces, some individuals will feel the effects sooner, especially with compromised breathing already.)
At 2,000 ppm we start to get headaches, sleepiness, poor concentration, increased heartrate, nausia and more.

It is also resulting in a mass extinction on an unprecedented level.
https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/timeline-of-a-mass-extinction/

ironmanDX said:

^ this is the stuff that scares me.

You can "adapt" to riseing sea levels, by moveing up mountains or higher elevated area's.
You can "deal" with micro plastics, makeing sea food something ineddible.
You cannot live without air to breath.

The fact that we could actually polute so much that we might suffocate ourselves with it.... thats scary to me.



SpokenTruth said:

P.S. This is in the politics forum due to the inevitable discussion about clime change.

Climate change is an issue that will have apocalyptic repercussions for everybody across the entire spectrum of society. The fact that some may think it's just a political issue that belongs only in politics is very revealing of the lack of understanding of the gravity of this issue by society, especially those in power.

Most shocking is the tweet that some absolute moron working for Trump (can't remember his name, not that his name is worthy of remembrance anyway) made back during the World Economic Forum in Davos and in which he told Greta Thunberg that she had better study economics rather than tell the world about climate change. Thus showing his abysmal issue with priorities and the scope of his ignorance. I mean that a human being with an allegedly working brain could think for a second that economics>natural order, profoundly flabbergasts me.

But anyway, to answer the question asked here, not a month goes by without some sort of climate change related record is broken and mentioned in the news over here. Hottest day recorded for whatever month we are in, hottest month recorded, most rainy, longest period without rain etc...

We are only reaping what we sowed.



Jumpin said:

I used to believe in global warming. It was clear that the temperature was rising all the way to early August. But then something happened and it has clearly been falling every single month since then, thus disproving science bitches. Sometimes science is a liar!

To anybody wondering why I wish for the destruction of mankind, for the end of our species. Well I do because of posts like this one above.

Let's be honest folks, you can't read a post like this and not hope deep inside that mankind will come to an end. You can't read a post like this and believe for a second that we deserve to go on.

Do you still want to believe that there may be some good, some wisdom to save us all when so many humans are this far gone and this much disconnected from reality? I can't, I simply can't.



JRPGfan said:
Pemalite said:

The issue stems from the rate of change that we are experiencing.

Prior climatic changes in Earths history tended to occur over longer time scales, thus allowing for flora and fauna to adapt to the changing conditions or thrive in specific geographical areas.

That isn't occurring this time around, we are able to count the rate of change on decade-long time scales rather than millenia-long time scales.
For example the last time we had global warming of 5-7'C, that took about 5,000 years.

The current rate of change is occurring 10-20x faster than what has occurred historically.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/GlobalWarming/page3.php

We are currently at 400~ ppm of CO2.

At about 1,000-1,500 ppm of CO2 we start to feel drowsiness. - We should hit that in the next 100~ years. (Frequently experience this level of CO2 as it's a normal environment when dealing with structural firefighting and confined spaces, some individuals will feel the effects sooner, especially with compromised breathing already.)
At 2,000 ppm we start to get headaches, sleepiness, poor concentration, increased heartrate, nausia and more.

It is also resulting in a mass extinction on an unprecedented level.
https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/timeline-of-a-mass-extinction/

^ this is the stuff that scares me.

You can "adapt" to riseing sea levels, by moveing up mountains or higher elevated area's.
You can "deal" with micro plastics, makeing sea food something ineddible.
You cannot live without air to breath.

The fact that we could actually polute so much that we might suffocate ourselves with it.... thats scary to me.

To be fair, we are a very long way from suffocation.
In saying that, you don't want to cross the 2,000ppm barrier... And at 5,000ppm because we would be exposed to those levels for long duration's... Would be extremely dangerous.
I.E. I am allowed to be exposed to 5,000ppm for roughly 8 hours at a time, but I am going to exhibit various physiological and psychological issues... This is enough CO2 to start affecting your bone density and create kidney calcification.

CO2 is dangerous... And not harmless like the Anti-Climate change movement would like you to believe, but there isn't an immediate threat to our health for a long time, it's our grandchildren that would be suffering for our inaction though.






--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Around the Network

Everybody is frantically posting every computer simulation, model, prediction, etc. that they found on the web and I don't have the time to explain the difference between those and reality for every case. Models aren't reality, only direct observations/measurements are. Lot's of models now mix real measurements with simulated "data" to create the appearance of objectivity, another trap to behold.

A good example for the distinction between model and data is the "Drowning of the Maldives" hysteria which has been predicted forever. After all, the models claim a hockey stick warming and sea level rise. The science is settled, only deniers disagree.

Maldives are drowning in 1837 (!) -- the hysteria began early.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4173156

Drowning again predicted in 1988

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/102074798

Perpetual drowning in 2018, it just never stops

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/islands-sea-level-rise-flooding-uninhabitable-climate-change-maldives-seychelles-hawaii-a8321876.html

So much for the models but what about reality?

Curb your enthusiasm, the Maldives have.... grown bigger, the oceans declined. The old man shows you were the sea line was when he was younger. Real observations vs. fake modelling.

Observational facts do not verify the story of a rapidly rising sea level in the Maldives. On the contrary, stability in sea level is well documented for the last 30-40 years.... As their [IPCC] idea is not based on actual field studies only modeling, our observational facts should be held superior.

http://myweb.wwu.edu/dbunny/pdfs/Evid_Based_Climate_Sci/Ev_Based_Climate_Sci_Chap7.pdf

That objective led a fieldwork team to the Maldives, and resulted in a conclusion that sea level in the islands fell by approximately 30 cm during the past few decades.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921818105000780



Pemalite said:
To be fair, we are a very long way from suffocation.
In saying that, you don't want to cross the 2,000ppm barrier... And at 5,000ppm because we would be exposed to those levels for long duration's... Would be extremely dangerous.
I.E. I am allowed to be exposed to 5,000ppm for roughly 8 hours at a time, but I am going to exhibit various physiological and psychological issues... This is enough CO2 to start affecting your bone density and create kidney calcification.

CO2 is dangerous... And not harmless like the Anti-Climate change movement would like you to believe, but there isn't an immediate threat to our health for a long time, it's our grandchildren that would be suffering for our inaction though.




Oh but I have a feeling that shit will hit the fan long before our grand children roam the earth as adults.

You are talking about CO2 and its direct effects to our health which I am not fully familiar with but I am certain these are bad as you explain. But there will be a more pressing problem with increasing concentrations of CO2 and worse with CH4 (Methane). The most pressing issue is the change in climate due to the greenhouse effect magnified by CO2 and the much more powerful CH4.

You see the warming of the global climate is going to trigger a whole bunch of positive reinforcing feedback loops which in turn will accelerate the warming which will at some point trigger a natural release of billions of tons of CH4 contained in shallow waters such as the waters of the east Siberian Arctic shelve (The so called clathrate gun) which will accelerate even more the warming of the climate due to the very powerful greenhouse methane gas released. Once these feedback loops are triggered there is no stopping them.

And that's not even mentioning the melting of the North Pole ice cap and the loss of the albedo effect which will also increase the warming of the climate. Think of the polar ice cap as a coolant for the entire polar ocean, once the ice gone, the warming will dramatically accelerate which means even more heat for the release of CH4 and so on in a self reinforcing loop that we can never control again. This one should be easy to understand. Think about yourself sitting in a chair in your garden in summer when it's very hot and sunny, imagine you're drinking a cool drink containing a bunch of ice cubes. You certainly notice how despite the sun glaring down on your drink, it remains cool for as long as the ice cubes are not fully melted. But as soon as the last ice cube is gone, the drink suddenly starts warming up. Well the same thing will happen in the Arctic ocean. The ice cap is shrinking and when it's gone and we get what scientists call a blue ocean event, the waters up there will accelerate their warming and make the release of CH4 even faster than it would without the melting of the ice cap. And that's without even mentioning the brutal changes in weather patterns, I won't get into this in detail, this post is long enough without that. Just know that there is a balance between the cold Arctic air and the warmer tropical air and once this happens, that balance will be completely shattered with serious consequences.

And all this doesn't even take into account another phenomenon that scientists call Global Dimming. Which pretty much ensures we are screwed whether we act or not. In short, global industrial activity has created a kind of umbrella which stops part of the sun shine from warming the atmosphere thanks to the release of gases and substances in the air. So if for some reason we were to stop all human activity across the globe and subsequently we'd stop releasing CO2 and other substances, in a few weeks only the air would clear and sun heat hitting the atmosphere would increase and accelerate global warming. By how much? Scientists don't agree, but what they agree upon is that it make things substantially worse on top of everything else.

And finally the worst problem that this sudden increase in heat will cause is not climate change or stronger storms, hurricanes, extreme heat and droughts causing massive fires (like we see in Australia) all these are very bad on their own. The worst will come with the crops that are the base for our food, these crops will not resist the coming changes and at some point they will collapse, at first by a few percents then more until 95% of all crops fail to grow and the entire world goes into a famine. No need for me to draw a picture of what that would mean (panic, social chaos, wars all over the globe, starvation everywhere) That's when shit really hits the fan. Can't tell you when exactly that will happen, I can only tell you that we are heading in that direction and we are accelerating towards it.

Last edited by CrazyGamer2017 - on 17 February 2020

CrazyGamer2017 said:
SpokenTruth said:

P.S. This is in the politics forum due to the inevitable discussion about clime change.

Climate change is an issue that will have apocalyptic repercussions for everybody across the entire spectrum of society. The fact that some may think it's just a political issue that belongs only in politics is very revealing of the lack of understanding of the gravity of this issue by society, especially those in power.

Most shocking is the tweet that some absolute moron working for Trump (can't remember his name, not that his name is worthy of remembrance anyway) made back during the World Economic Forum in Davos and in which he told Greta Thunberg that she had better study economics rather than tell the world about climate change. Thus showing his abysmal issue with priorities and the scope of his ignorance. I mean that a human being with an allegedly working brain could think for a second that economics>natural order, profoundly flabbergasts me.

But anyway, to answer the question asked here, not a month goes by without some sort of climate change related record is broken and mentioned in the news over here. Hottest day recorded for whatever month we are in, hottest month recorded, most rainy, longest period without rain etc...

We are only reaping what we sowed.

"I mean that a human being with an allegedly working brain could think for a second that economics>natural order"

for the vast majority of people and everyone who visits this forum, economics does trump the natural order

whenever we build houses or lay roads to drive our cars or build airports to move across countries what do you believe is happening?

to access this forum you use a computer built in a factory from materials extracted from the earth connected via extensive networks spanning thousands of miles

how many ecosystems are disrupted within these processes? do you have any idea how much energy is consumed to create consoles and the video games that run on them? or to keep those consoles turned on and connected?

how many people in one breath voice concern about how bad climate change is then cheer at the implementation of 5g networks?

a lot of this crying about how urgent global warming is to me sounds a little hypocritical, i know personally that if it came to it i could go live in the bush off the grid and still feel contentment with regards to life, fully understanding what that means and how much more difficult life would be, but I don't think many of people people lamenting climate change and that WE MUST DO SOMETHING can say the same



numberwang said:

Everybody is frantically posting every computer simulation, model, prediction, etc. that they found on the web and I don't have the time to explain the difference between those and reality for every case. Models aren't reality, only direct observations/measurements are. Lot's of models now mix real measurements with simulated "data" to create the appearance of objectivity, another trap to behold.

A good example for the distinction between model and data is the "Drowning of the Maldives" hysteria which has been predicted forever. After all, the models claim a hockey stick warming and sea level rise. The science is settled, only deniers disagree.

Maldives are drowning in 1837 (!) -- the hysteria began early.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4173156

Drowning again predicted in 1988

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/102074798

Perpetual drowning in 2018, it just never stops

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/islands-sea-level-rise-flooding-uninhabitable-climate-change-maldives-seychelles-hawaii-a8321876.html

So much for the models but what about reality?

Curb your enthusiasm, the Maldives have.... grown bigger, the oceans declined. The old man shows you were the sea line was when he was younger. Real observations vs. fake modelling.

Observational facts do not verify the story of a rapidly rising sea level in the Maldives. On the contrary, stability in sea level is well documented for the last 30-40 years.... As their [IPCC] idea is not based on actual field studies only modeling, our observational facts should be held superior.

http://myweb.wwu.edu/dbunny/pdfs/Evid_Based_Climate_Sci/Ev_Based_Climate_Sci_Chap7.pdf

That objective led a fieldwork team to the Maldives, and resulted in a conclusion that sea level in the islands fell by approximately 30 cm during the past few decades.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921818105000780

I don't understand, why is the sea receding in this area?



numberwang said:

That objective led a fieldwork team to the Maldives, and resulted in a conclusion that sea level in the islands fell by approximately 30 cm during the past few decades.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921818105000780

You need to start reading your sources, friendo:

"That objective led a fieldwork team to the Maldives, and resulted in a conclusion that sea level in the islands fell by approximately 30 cm during the past few decades. In the present paper, the suggestion of such a fall has been examined from meteorological and oceanographic perspectives and found to be implausible."

"Without any real evidence for a hitherto-unrecognised process which could lead to a sea level change as significant as that proposed by the fieldwork team, one concludes that a rise in sea level of approximately half a metre during the 21st century, as suggested by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change Third Assessment Report, remains the most reliable scenario to employ in future studies of the islands."

It is not saying "We found in our research that the sea level dropped 30cm", it is saying the exact opposite. That their research found that other assertions that sea level dropped 30cm were unfounded and that sea level rise in accordance with models was the most likely scenario.

Further data from the Maldives indicates that sea level rise is in fact occurring at a similar rate to the rest of the world:

"The results show that Maldives coastal sea level is rising in the same way (rising trend) as the global sea level. The mean tidal level at Male has shown an increasing trend of about 4.1 mm/year.Similarly at Gan, near the equator,it has registered a positive trend of about 3.9 mm/year."

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/014904102753516787

" Results show that recent sea level trends in the Maldives coast are very high. At Male, the capital of the Republic of Maldives, the rising rates of Mean Tidal Level (MTL) are: 8.5, 7.6, and 5.8 mm/year during the postmonsoon (October-December), Premonsoon (March-May) and southwest monsoon (June-September) seasons respectively. At Gan, a station very close to the equator, the increasing rate of MTL is maximum during the period from June to September (which is 6.2 mm/year). "

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/014904101753227851

That said, similar to Sweden and Finland as discussed earlier, there are other factors at work than just sea level. The land is also changing. Reef islands are able to change shape in response to shifting sediments. However, the impact of this is affected by the presence of human built structures which are not as fluid, so it is still important to have a plan for sea level change and it is important to do what is possible to reduce this sea level change.This may explain both why many urban areas such as the capital are seeing sea level rise, and why other areas are seeing sea level falling, again, without doing much to provide a counterpoint against the idea that global sea level is rising.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/02/150213-tuvalu-sopoaga-kench-kiribati-maldives-cyclone-marshall-islands/

Last edited by sundin13 - on 17 February 2020