Runa216 said:
JWeinCom said:
Runa brought up sexuality.
Segregated bathrooms potentially reduce abuse (I don't know, I haven't really read studies). Even if they don't, they tend to make women, at least in America, feel safer. And people here at least just tend to prefer it this way. So why exactly would we want to change that? I would be open to changing it, but only if there were some benefit to doing so.
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I know this isn't what you're doing, but your argument reminds me entirely too much of the 'gays are ruining the sanctity of marriage' argument. The idea that 'two men can't raise a kid as well as a man and a woman becuase a man and a woman is how it's always been' is just wrong, no studies support the stance, and if anything the research done into it has shown the opposite. but, appealing to the masses or appealing to tradition works, it gets people to believe what you're saying.
Your argument here about split-gender bathrooms really doesn't hold any water. you even said 'I don't know, I haven't really read studies' when defending your stance. Your argument seems to stem less from any real digging, research, or logical progression but more of an appeal to 'well this is how I'm used to it and I can't be convinced any other way is better'. Your assertions are outright wrong or circumstantial, your points are misleading, and almost none of your actual arguments are anything more than 'ewww, I don't wanna share a bathroom', and are justifying it with outright wrong stats about assault happening in bathrooms that SOUND right (Because Men can suck, for sure) but aren't accurate (Because it's not men, it's shitty people in general and it CAN happen both ways).
Your stance is, at its core, sexist. It assumes that all men (or at least a larger percentage of men) are shitty, scummy, could-be rapists and putting them in unisex bathrooms with women is just asking the women to get raped. IT's just not how it works. when unisex bathrooms are implemented, there's no significant difference in assault happening. Period. But you seem uncomfortable with the idea so you're making shit up that sounds right to justify your stance. Please don't do that, it doesn't help. IF you're uncomfortable with something, that's fine. You're allowed to have an opinion. But please don't masquerade that personal feeling as a fact. That's not how we make progress in these troubled times.
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I say... "I would be open to changing it, but only if there were some benefit to doing so."
You characterize what I said as..."well this is how I'm used to it and I can't be convinced any other way is better'.
You're not only putting words in my mouth, but words that are literally the opposite of what I said.
Runa216 said:
JWeinCom said:
Runa brought up sexuality.
Segregated bathrooms potentially reduce abuse (I don't know, I haven't really read studies). Even if they don't, they tend to make women, at least in America, feel safer. And people here at least just tend to prefer it this way. So why exactly would we want to change that? I would be open to changing it, but only if there were some benefit to doing so.
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I know this isn't what you're doing, but your argument reminds me entirely too much of the 'gays are ruining the sanctity of marriage' argument. The idea that 'two men can't raise a kid as well as a man and a woman becuase a man and a woman is how it's always been' is just wrong, no studies support the stance, and if anything the research done into it has shown the opposite. but, appealing to the masses or appealing to tradition works, it gets people to believe what you're saying.
Your argument here about split-gender bathrooms really doesn't hold any water. you even said 'I don't know, I haven't really read studies' when defending your stance. Your argument seems to stem less from any real digging, research, or logical progression but more of an appeal to 'well this is how I'm used to it and I can't be convinced any other way is better'. Your assertions are outright wrong or circumstantial, your points are misleading, and almost none of your actual arguments are anything more than 'ewww, I don't wanna share a bathroom', and are justifying it with outright wrong stats about assault happening in bathrooms that SOUND right (Because Men can suck, for sure) but aren't accurate (Because it's not men, it's shitty people in general and it CAN happen both ways).
Your stance is, at its core, sexist. It assumes that all men (or at least a larger percentage of men) are shitty, scummy, could-be rapists and putting them in unisex bathrooms with women is just asking the women to get raped. IT's just not how it works. when unisex bathrooms are implemented, there's no significant difference in assault happening. Period. But you seem uncomfortable with the idea so you're making shit up that sounds right to justify your stance. Please don't do that, it doesn't help. IF you're uncomfortable with something, that's fine. You're allowed to have an opinion. But please don't masquerade that personal feeling as a fact. That's not how we make progress in these troubled times.
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I say... "I would be open to changing it, but only if there were some benefit to doing so."
You characterize what I said as..."well this is how I'm used to it and I can't be convinced any other way is better'.
You're not only putting words in my mouth, but words that are literally the opposite of what I said.
Nowhere did I state it was most men, nor was that in any way implied by what I said. I won't reply to strawmen.
If by "a larger percentage of men" you mean a larger percentage of males than females are sexually abusive, then yes, I stand by that, because that's what the evidence shows. Men are about ten times more likely to commit sexual assault than women. Women are about ten times more likely to be victims. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/soo.pdf">https://web.archive.org/web/20130305070553/http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/soo.pdf https://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/resources/publications/en/guidelines_chap2.pdf It's not shitty people in general. It is overwhelmingly shitty men.
Since we know that men are on the whole more likely to commit sexual abuse, and women are more likely to be victims, then it seems to be a reasonable inference that we should limit situations where men and women are in a semi-isolated location where surveillance is generally barred, and there will potentially be a lack of victims. I think that's a reasonable inference. I'm not aware of studies done on unisex bathrooms except https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html. Which seems to bear out my intuitions. If you found other studies present that indicate otherwise present them, and I'll adjust my opinions accordingly.
I never said that sharing a bathroom with women or trans people or whatever was in any way distasteful for me. Again, I'm not going to reply to strawmen.
If we do things in a particular way that generally seems to work, then I think it stands to reason that we should not change that unless there is a good reason why a proposed change would be better. Why would we do anything without good reason?
So, why exactly should we make this change? I'm open to changing my mind, just nobody's presented a good reason why unisex bathrooms are preferable.
Last edited by JWeinCom - on 04 March 2020
