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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

EricHiggin said:

If the vax may help you, then nobodies stopping you from getting it. Since it doesn't stop you or anyone else from contacting and spreading covid still, leave anyone who doesn't want it alone. Trying to force others to get it isn't going to work, and far worse, it's just going to leave scars, and those scars are getting deeper and wider by the day.

>Since it doesn't stop you or anyone else from contacting and spreading covid still

It isn't that cut and dry.

There's this bizarre notion apparently that if something doesn't work perfectly then it doesn't work at all. The vaccine does prevent some illnesses and it does prevent some pass throughs to others.

>Trying to force others to get it isn't going to work, and far worse

I don't like the idea of forcing people, but at the same time, something has to be done about people making terrible decisions, especially when it is hurting others. It's killing others, it's hurting the economy, it's hurting businesses. It's already hard enough to find enough people to employ, it's harder still when you have to start replacing people who died.

>Everyone is always potentially endangering someone else. Thinking you can be in public and be risk free doesn't and won't ever exist on Earth as humans.

This is from another comment. There are plenty of scenarios where we do control other people. 
Police officers stop people from speeding, drinking and driving. 

EricHiggin said:

We're already seeing new medical services pop up who are focusing or only servicing the non vaxed. Some businesses are doing similar, or flat out refusing to segregate. 

Some hospitals are doing that, because they have been running out of beds, so they're prioritizing people who made the smarter choices.

This happens with a lot of other things too. Alcoholics have a harder time getting a new liver, unless they've shown they have been sober for several months.  

If you only have 10 beds, but you have 16 patients, why not prioritize the 10 that actually cared enough to be proactive.



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kirby007 said:

In the meantime we have unvaccinated people trying to get corona so they won't be denied access when things are going to be strickter again.
why not just get the vaccine then? just being obtuse or aren't they seeing the irony in it?

People are actually doing that? Why I am not surprised. That is quite sad. Just get the vaccine. I HATE needles and got mine. 



VGChartz Sales Analyst and Writer - William D'Angelo - I stream on Twitch and have my own YoutubeFollow me on Twitter @TrunksWD.

Writer of the Gap Charts | Weekly Hardware Breakdown Top 10 | Weekly Sales Analysis | Marketshare Features, as well as daily news on the Video Game Industry.

SvennoJ said:
EricHiggin said:

Choosing not to get vaccinated is now further hurting the economy and quality of life for all.

Alcohol is more widely available again, since it's so 'healthy', and not all speed limits are the same worldwide, and some roads still don't have limits.

We're also improving some people's health with the vax, and smoking, driving, and the environment still cause plenty of problems and will continue to.

Vax at birth is to help the individual, which in turn can vastly help the whole for certain specific illnesses.

The only difference is instead of being offered a shot, like the flu, covid is basically being forced on everyone. Think of all the people who've died since the flu shot was available, and all that had to be done was force everyone worldwide to take it. Why hasn't that still happened? All we had to do was wait for covid to show up and it got rid of the flu and common cold anyway, until it decides to reappear apparently. Why don't we just offer optional covid shots and just wait for the next thing to come along and make covid disappear?

Everyone is always potentially endangering someone else. Thinking you can be in public and be risk free doesn't and won't ever exist on Earth as humans.

Have they figured out exactly how covid came to be? Is the vax pass really because some people won't get jabbed? It would also be the perfect transition method to a social credit card/pass. One that everyone has to abide by worldwide. That doesn't sound like, 'go do whatever you want over there' to me.

The brainiacs in Gov are the reason the economy is hurting and yes it's diminishing everyone's quality of life.

Keep on stretching your arguments, however facts are not backing you up. See the post above, "The regions with the highest infection rates are also the ones with the lowest vaccination rates in Germany." and that's not just in Germany, and also applies to the hospitalization and death rates.

How much evidence do you need?

And btw "That's like saying a video gaming addiction has nothing to do with how fun the games are."

That's a true statement, although little instead of nothing. Video game addiction is dopamine addiction.
https://www.brainandlife.org/articles/how-do-video-games-affect-the-developing-brains-of-children/
Which comes from all the little rewards that game companies exploit so well in loot boxes etc. Which is why governments are now starting to regulate these things. Grinding in games is not fun game play, but it is addictive. The most fun games are those you play together with friends, the most addictive are those you grind on your own. Dangerously over eating has little to do with the taste of food.

When I see my kid get 'addicted' to one of those Roblox 'click' 'click' 'click' games to see numbers increase I always ask him, are you having fun. Then after a bit he acknowledges that, no it's actually not fun. He and his nephew actually have auto clickers installed to click for them and leave it running to see what the numbers have gotten up to after getting back from school. That's not fun, but they sure know how to get kids addicted.

Currently he's building in Minecraft again, left Roblox behind. The dopamine reward of creating things is at least something I can get behind. And he plays it moderately as all that planning and building actually takes effort and makes him take a break. The older one is addicted to Rust, playing with his school friends online. At least he's playing with his friends, and he admits solo, it's not a fun game. And easy to walk away from since the server resets every month, you lose everything anyway by design. But certainly something to keep an eye on.


In the latest fun developments, we're now going to send 11 million rapid test kits to schools to take home over the holidays for voluntary self testing. Unreliable tests with the idea that giving everyone 5 self test kits is going to even out the results... Imo, might as well burn that money. It would be more useful to work on better ventilation standards. (In my oldest's classroom it was a fan in a window, the fan broke down and now it's freezing outside...)
https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2021/11/18/ontario-giving-students-rapid-covid-19-tests-to-take-home-over-holiday-break.html

One story of the many
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/i-won-t-be-here-next-year-canadians-robbed-of-life-by-delayed-diagnoses-amid-pandemic-1.5671500

Austria breaking the way to vaccine mandates
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/facing-surge-austria-will-mandate-covid-19-shots-lock-down-1.5672903

Austria announced a new national lockdown and a plan to mandate vaccinations as coronavirus infections hit a record high Friday, forcing the government to walk back promises that such blanket shutdowns were a thing of the past.

Imposing a mandate would give Austria one of the world's most stringent vaccine requirements. Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg said those who didn't comply would likely be fined but gave no other details.

The moves come as vaccinations in Austria have plateaued at one of the lowest rates in Western Europe and as hospitals in heavily hit states have warned that their intensive care units are reaching capacity.

Keep on only selecting certain points, while seemingly not taking them seriously. Picking and choosing is part of the problem as I've said.

I was taking a family member to the hospital for cancer treatments during the first 6 months or so of the pandemic. The hospital had started focusing on covid patients then and only existing patients could remain. As time went on with the treatments, it was getting less and less busy and the nurses said the hospital wasn't that busy at all, yet the news said hospitals were overwhelmed. This was in Hamilton. My old man sold a piece of equipment to someone about that time who mentioned their daughter was a nurse in Toronto and their hospital was non stop jam packed. So why weren't certain hospitals allowed to focus far less on covid or not at all and only non covid? What about everyone else who suffered and died who weren't covid patients, who were supposed to receive their 'free' taxed healthcare? Thanks for paying into the system to save some others, but you can suffer or die now. Oh well...

Pushing to force the vax too far, like some others are all for, will lead to the same kind of outcome as those who couldn't get medical treatment due to the covid focus, and likely far worse. Wouldn't the point of forcing the vax be to save people? Just like those who couldn't get medical treatment who suffered or died because covid was so much more important, supposedly, the same kind type of outcome would happen if the vax is forced beyond a certain point. Select to save some, while knowingly allowing others to suffer and die who likely wouldn't need to. That's the type of thinking that allows everyone in a potential life and death situation to justify just about anything, and that's not a place anyone wants it to go. Nukes aren't used first, they're a last resort, and for good reason. People have forgotten what happens when you push the wrong entity too far.

How about Gibraltar? So highly vaxed, yet, still such a problem with cases. How can that possibly be? Cancel Xmas? Why not, since everyone is, so safe now?

Christmas Celebrations Cancelled in Most Vaccinated Area in the World as Cases Spike (newsweek.com)

Gibraltar proves that vaccination does not stop Covid - by Live Beyond Borders - LBB's Newsletter (substack.com)

Yet hurray Austria for forcing the vax where like other highly vaxed area's, it's still not going to solve the problem. What then? 3rd, 4th, 5th boosters? Maybe we'll have the small pox pandemic by then like Gates has mentioned? I mean he was right about the upcoming covid pandemic as well coincidentally, wasn't he?



EricHiggin said:
SvennoJ said:

Keep on stretching your arguments, however facts are not backing you up. See the post above, "The regions with the highest infection rates are also the ones with the lowest vaccination rates in Germany." and that's not just in Germany, and also applies to the hospitalization and death rates.

How much evidence do you need?

And btw "That's like saying a video gaming addiction has nothing to do with how fun the games are."

That's a true statement, although little instead of nothing. Video game addiction is dopamine addiction.
https://www.brainandlife.org/articles/how-do-video-games-affect-the-developing-brains-of-children/
Which comes from all the little rewards that game companies exploit so well in loot boxes etc. Which is why governments are now starting to regulate these things. Grinding in games is not fun game play, but it is addictive. The most fun games are those you play together with friends, the most addictive are those you grind on your own. Dangerously over eating has little to do with the taste of food.

When I see my kid get 'addicted' to one of those Roblox 'click' 'click' 'click' games to see numbers increase I always ask him, are you having fun. Then after a bit he acknowledges that, no it's actually not fun. He and his nephew actually have auto clickers installed to click for them and leave it running to see what the numbers have gotten up to after getting back from school. That's not fun, but they sure know how to get kids addicted.

Currently he's building in Minecraft again, left Roblox behind. The dopamine reward of creating things is at least something I can get behind. And he plays it moderately as all that planning and building actually takes effort and makes him take a break. The older one is addicted to Rust, playing with his school friends online. At least he's playing with his friends, and he admits solo, it's not a fun game. And easy to walk away from since the server resets every month, you lose everything anyway by design. But certainly something to keep an eye on.


In the latest fun developments, we're now going to send 11 million rapid test kits to schools to take home over the holidays for voluntary self testing. Unreliable tests with the idea that giving everyone 5 self test kits is going to even out the results... Imo, might as well burn that money. It would be more useful to work on better ventilation standards. (In my oldest's classroom it was a fan in a window, the fan broke down and now it's freezing outside...)
https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2021/11/18/ontario-giving-students-rapid-covid-19-tests-to-take-home-over-holiday-break.html

One story of the many
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/i-won-t-be-here-next-year-canadians-robbed-of-life-by-delayed-diagnoses-amid-pandemic-1.5671500

Austria breaking the way to vaccine mandates
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/facing-surge-austria-will-mandate-covid-19-shots-lock-down-1.5672903

Austria announced a new national lockdown and a plan to mandate vaccinations as coronavirus infections hit a record high Friday, forcing the government to walk back promises that such blanket shutdowns were a thing of the past.

Imposing a mandate would give Austria one of the world's most stringent vaccine requirements. Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg said those who didn't comply would likely be fined but gave no other details.

The moves come as vaccinations in Austria have plateaued at one of the lowest rates in Western Europe and as hospitals in heavily hit states have warned that their intensive care units are reaching capacity.

How about Gibraltar? So highly vaxed, yet, still such a problem with cases. How can that possibly be? Cancel Xmas? Why not, since everyone is, so safe now?

Christmas Celebrations Cancelled in Most Vaccinated Area in the World as Cases Spike (newsweek.com)

Gibraltar proves that vaccination does not stop Covid - by Live Beyond Borders - LBB's Newsletter (substack.com)

Yet hurray Austria for forcing the vax where like other highly vaxed area's, it's still not going to solve the problem. What then? 3rd, 4th, 5th boosters? Maybe we'll have the small pox pandemic by then like Gates has mentioned? I mean he was right about the upcoming covid pandemic as well coincidentally, wasn't he?

Your source states only 81% of the relevant population is vaccinated, so similar to some other countries. Your sources still support vaccinations.

"only 2.1% of the 739 residents, who tested positive for Covid, ended up in hospital, and not a single person died"

As has been stated a million times already, vaccines don't prevent Covid, they prevent severe cases. And even then, they aren't perfect.

The bigger issue with Gibraltar and many countries is one thing: complacency.

Guarantee you that the higher number of cases is due to

A: Vaccines effect wearing off------> Get booster

and

B: People stopped wearing masks-------> Wear your masks!

I am sure Gibraltar people  and even the government heard the hype of being the most vaccinated in the world, and thought going back to normal would not lead to a rise in cases and thus more lockdowns.



Farsala said:
EricHiggin said:

How about Gibraltar? So highly vaxed, yet, still such a problem with cases. How can that possibly be? Cancel Xmas? Why not, since everyone is, so safe now?

Christmas Celebrations Cancelled in Most Vaccinated Area in the World as Cases Spike (newsweek.com)

Gibraltar proves that vaccination does not stop Covid - by Live Beyond Borders - LBB's Newsletter (substack.com)

Yet hurray Austria for forcing the vax where like other highly vaxed area's, it's still not going to solve the problem. What then? 3rd, 4th, 5th boosters? Maybe we'll have the small pox pandemic by then like Gates has mentioned? I mean he was right about the upcoming covid pandemic as well coincidentally, wasn't he?

Your source states only 81% of the relevant population is vaccinated, so similar to some other countries. Your sources still support vaccinations.

"only 2.1% of the 739 residents, who tested positive for Covid, ended up in hospital, and not a single person died"

As has been stated a million times already, vaccines don't prevent Covid, they prevent severe cases. And even then, they aren't perfect.

The bigger issue with Gibraltar and many countries is one thing: complacency.

Guarantee you that the higher number of cases is due to

A: Vaccines effect wearing off------> Get booster

and

B: People stopped wearing masks-------> Wear your masks!

I am sure Gibraltar people  and even the government heard the hype of being the most vaccinated in the world, and thought going back to normal would not lead to a rise in cases and thus more lockdowns.

Everyone is relevant aren't they? Exclusivity is negativity.

How do you know it was the vax that saved them? It's not possible to live through a covid infection being unvaxed?

I support injections as well.

Whatever type of injection for whatever your own personal goal may be, virus defense, pregnancy, whatever you want, I'm all for it. If you don't want a jab, or two, then no problem, don't take one. Your body, your choice.

People were guaranteed two weeks to stop the spread. They were guaranteed less lockdowns, regulations, suffering, death, for wearing masks. They were guaranteed just two jabs to end covid. They were guaranteed new leadership would stop the virus in it's tracks in no time. Yet here we are.

I am highly confident that nothing, absolutely nothing, is guaranteed. Whether facts are produced or not.



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Got my booster shot the other day. *shrugs* Same consequence as the other two shots: some soreness at the injection site mainly for the first 24 hours and that's really been all, though I will say that I also experienced a very small amount of extra tiredness for much of the following day. Today I'm feeling totally back to normal. So no big, in other words, especially if you're young enough to be using VGC.

This shot was MUCH easier to get than my first two. I had to chase down the first one back in March and got my second in April more easily, through my employer, but had to schedule an appointment. The booster I got through my employer over my lunch break on a whim. Easy peasy.



Data from the past weeks in Denmark suggest that the fully vaccinated are three times less likely to be infected than the unvaccinated (~ 67% efficacy), and the previously infected six times less likely than the unvaccinated (~ 84% efficacy). Vaccination plus previous infection provides a whopping 30 times reduction in risk (~ 97% efficacy). This is vs. testing positive only, so no data on symptomatic illness or hospitalizations yet.

Contrary to my fears, that would suggest protection from previous infection is holding out well despite the cooler temperatures that would have dried out nasal mucosae and decreased the levels of IgA in the nose. It also suggests the percentage of previously infected in Eastern Europe was likely quite a bit lower than needed for herd immunity, perhaps no more than 50% before this wave.



 

 

 

 

 

I am going to look into getting the booster soon. I got the J&J in April and it looks like it is recommended for me to get Pfizer or Moderna booster.



VGChartz Sales Analyst and Writer - William D'Angelo - I stream on Twitch and have my own YoutubeFollow me on Twitter @TrunksWD.

Writer of the Gap Charts | Weekly Hardware Breakdown Top 10 | Weekly Sales Analysis | Marketshare Features, as well as daily news on the Video Game Industry.

haxxiy said:

Data from the past weeks in Denmark suggest that the fully vaccinated are three times less likely to be infected than the unvaccinated (~ 67% efficacy), and the previously infected six times less likely than the unvaccinated (~ 84% efficacy). Vaccination plus previous infection provides a whopping 30 times reduction in risk (~ 97% efficacy). This is vs. testing positive only, so no data on symptomatic illness or hospitalizations yet.

Contrary to my fears, that would suggest protection from previous infection is holding out well despite the cooler temperatures that would have dried out nasal mucosae and decreased the levels of IgA in the nose. It also suggests the percentage of previously infected in Eastern Europe was likely quite a bit lower than needed for herd immunity, perhaps no more than 50% before this wave.

Yet, governments are pushing for boosters to everyone whether if they had covid19 in the past or not. Absolute insanity. 



Weekly update, Europe remains the main driving force in the pandemic for now

In total 3.74 million cases were reported last week (up from 3.36 million) to a total of 256,926,903
Also another 51,636 deaths were reported (slightly up from 50,300) to a total of 5,155,335

Europe continues up, USA is starting to go up again as well. Europe currently represents 65% of new cases and 54% of reported deaths.

The continents

Europe reported 2.19 million new cases (up from 1.90 million) and 27,336 more deaths (up from 25,833)
North America reported 750K new cases (up from 624K) and 10,164 more deaths (10,960 last week)
Asia reported 627K new cases (down from 650K) and 10,380 more deaths (9,718 last week)
South America reported 131K new cases (down from 145K) and 2,560 more deaths (down from 2,826)
Africa reported 23.6K new cases (down from 34.0K) and 984 deaths (1,193 last week)
Oceania reported 11.9K new cases (slightly down from 12.3K) and 151 deaths (101 last week)

Comparing current deaths / reported cases with last year before vaccines

Europe 1.25% infected death ratio, November 2020 2.0% infected death ratio
Oceania 1.27% infected death ratio, August 2020 5.8% infected death ratio
North America 1.36% infected death ratio, October 2020 2.9% infected death ratio
Asia 1.66% infected death ratio, September 2020, 1.5% infected death ratio
South America 1.95% infected death ratio, October 2020 3.3% infected death ratio
Africa 4.17% infected death ratio, November 2020 2.5% infected death ratio

What is interesting is that in the least vaccinated places (Asia 46% and Africa 7%) the overall death rate has gone up. The mutations seem to be more deadly. Luckily the vaccines still work against the current new strains.

Vaccines are definitely helping. The vast majority of deaths are also under the non vaccinated

Taking into account what @haxxiy said, unvaccinated representing 3x more infections, the vaccines still reduce death rate to 40% of non vaccinated (after getting infected) With 66% less chance to get infected, you get to 13% of the deaths coming from non vaccinated compared to vaccinated.

How many lives are potentially saved by the vaccines?
At worst (taking the 1.66x increase of Africa into account) Europe would currently have 73K deaths weekly, over 45K lives spared weekly in Europe.

Corners of the world

USA reported 687K new cases (up from 554K) and 8,165 more deaths (8,260 last week)
India reported 80.9K new cases (up from 70.5K) and 2,189 more deaths (down from 2,625)
Brazil reported 62.4K new cases (down from 78.5K) and 1,476 more deaths (down from 1,823)
Iran reported 42.3K new cases (down from 53.8K) and 816 death (865 last week)
South Korea reported 18.4K new cases (up from 15.3K) and 164 deaths (115 last week)
Canada reported 18.1K new cases (up from 16.7K) and 195 deaths (154 last week)
Australia reported 8,590 new cases (down from 9,635) and 60 deaths (78 last week)
South Africa reported 2,917 new cases (up from 1,978) and 93 deaths (174 last week)
Japan reported 1,125 new cases (down from 1,364) and 19 deaths (27 last week)

Europe in detail

All going up, too many people thinking the pandemic is over already, forgetting vaccines reduce the chance to get infected, not eliminate it.
However last November Europe was up to 34K deaths weekly with a peak of 1.9 million infections weekly, currently it's 27K deaths with 2.2 million infections weekly.

Problem is, the pandemic rages on among the non-vaccinated while countries allow the infection rates to soar just looking at hospitalization rates. (keeping them the same) This makes it seem the vaccines are far less effective than they really are.

Global vaccination rate is now 41.41% (+1.00%)

Europe 56.78% (+0.72%)
South America 55.60% (+1.28%)
North America 53.75% (+0.66%)
Oceania 53.18% (+1.66%)
Asia 46.10% (+1.39%)
Africa 6.84% (+0.47%)

While Africa is still far behind, we're starting to vaccinate 6 to 11 year olds.
Meanwhile up to 10% of doses are wasted by people refusing to get the vaccine
https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/10-per-cent-of-covid-19-vaccine-doses-wasted-or-expired-alberta-health-1.5674144
Alberta is also one of the lowest vaccinated provinces in Canada, with the highest recent outbreak which came very close to having to deny healthcare
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/at-the-very-edge-of-the-cliff-ama-says-triage-already-happening-in-alberta-hospitals-1.5599795