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Ryuu96 said:

How can you say no to this man.

Summoning @DroidKnight to lighten this thread up with a bit of shit-posting.

That was a lot of reading to take in.  I travel for the weekend only to come back to like 14 pages of posts to read through.  I'm not sure where to begin, nor does it seem wise for me to.  

In the poll I had voted for go ahead and release the game.  No amount of waiting is going to make a perfect game or perfect release.  I loved playing forge maps in the Halo 3 online map rotations but never really made a map (sandbox my favorite).  I do like co-op with my brothers in campaign but never do that at launch.  I'm always multi-player first and will normally, slowly sample campaign in single player mode first.  I can see where many may be upset though and I don't blame them for being upset.  

Angelus said:

Literally just wrote out like 8 paragraphs for a post, only to realize that;
1) I'm not a writer for VGC
2) Nobody would bother to actually read all that, and
3) Everyone here has pretty much got their mind made up on how they feel about all this

So...whatever. Cheers to being a statistical minority.

Someone else mentioned they would read it, I would as well.  Some of these last hundred plus posts were pretty long themselves but were well thought out.  Though it doesn't affect my mind one way or the other I enjoy reading all points-of-view and the complementing arguments.  



...to avoid getting banned for inactivity, I may have to resort to comments that are of a lower overall quality and or beneath my moral standards.

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shikamaru317 said:
Ryuu96 said:

I'm not sure why we should call for Bonnie's head based on a Reddit post that didn't even say she was the problem, heck, it doesn't mention her at all but he straight up suggests that Chris Lee was the problem, Lol. Imo, it would be a massive undertaking for anyone to run a studio like 343i on their own, Halo is a massive IP and it has so much expectations set on it, the pressure is enormous and there's a lot more expected of Halo compared to other games of its type, such as Battlefield or CoD.

Imo, I think Bonnie should co-run the studio with Joseph Staten, this ain't 2006 anymore and things are a lot harder nowadays, I don't think the solution should be to replace one person with another but rather to split responsibilities and share the burden (I mean, Joe did quit Bungie once only over an argument he had with Marcus Letho which gave us Halo 3's mess of a story).

This ain't about woke points for Microsoft either, y'all need to take a look at Bonnie's career as to why Microsoft put her there, she's a Microsoft employee first and foremost so likely someone they think they could have trusted more, she has 20+ years inside of Microsoft with roles ranging from Lead Producer, General Manager overseeing Production for all titles within Microsoft Game Studios, which included titles like Zoo Tycoon, Counter Strike, Gears of War, Jade Empire, Psychonauts, Mass Effect, Halo 3, Halo 3: ODST, Halo Reach.

Tim Schaffer even mentioned he only sold after talking to Bonnie Ross. Like her or not, she seems to be widely respected both inside and outside of Microsoft.

There should be questions asked of her leadership but I don't envy the position she is in, I also don't think it has all been bad, there has been positives aspects of 343's Halo, Infinite was definitely a big screw-up and that is Bonnie's responsibility but I struggle to fully pin the blame on Bonnie for Halo 5 content issues and MCC broken mess when for all we know, it could have been Microsoft forcing a date, we simply don't know the issues but we do know Microsoft has in the past been very unfair with release dates.

Also fact is, Microsoft is a business, if Bonnie wasn't making them big money, they'd dump her ass, Lol. They aren't keeping her around cause 'woke' Corps only care if they're making money.

Admittedly this opinion is based on an unverified leak, but if the leak is true, she absolutely deserves a large chunk of the blame. Yes, Chris Lee was in charge of the game, but she was his boss as 343 studio head. She watched Chris implementing these bad decisions described in the leak, like Chris implementing an open world design that forced players to complete a certain number of open world objectives before the next story mission would unlock, Chris not working out how co-op respawns and checkpoints would work within an open world before going forward with the open world idea, Chris not getting a team working on Forge early in development, Chris not pushing the graphics team to try and achieve the level of graphics from the Slipspace Engine reveal trailer ahead of showing off the game to the public the first time, etc. 

And then you have the failings that went on within her studio before Halo Infinite, particularly the disastrous launch of Halo MCC, and the shite storyline and poorly thought out lootbox system in Halo 5. How much of the blame for those mistakes lies on 343 and how much lies on the development partners on MCC, as well as how much of blame relies on Microsoft in regards to launching MCC in a clearly unfinished state and pushing for lootbox microtransactions, I don't know, but clearly some of the blame lies on Bonnie as studio head of 343. 

Let me put it this way, no other Xbox first party studio has as many issues as 343 has, only Rare comes close. How many 2nd chances does Bonnie deserve before we admit that alot of the fault lies on her decisions? She has at her disposal the 2nd largest Xbox first party team and her studio has had 5 and a half years to work on Halo Infinite, and still the game has issues with delayed content. 

The problem is that gamers always take bits and pieces of information and then go south without really understanding the full story.  There really is not enough information to form any opinion on who to blame because really that is the first thing people seek to do.  Oh someone left, who to blame, oh there is a delay who to blame.  I suggest people stop looking for someone to blame and just wait for the final product.  I know working in such development environments there could be multiple items and things that go wrong.  We can all assume a bunch of stuff but most of the time, its just a bunch of uninformed opinions and speculation on very limited info.  Even the things you call mistakes are just decisions.  Some pan out, some do not, you neve know until you put out a finished product.  Even Halo MCC was not a disaster because I played the hell out of it.  Did it have issues, yes but then again what game doesn't.  How many games like MCC are their on the market where it takes all of the games and put it into one.  You probably cannot understand the complexity of that situation and how the troubles with QA such a huge collection.  Either way, decisions had to be made and we will see if its for the best.  I personally feel that focus on getting the campaign done and worry about those additional add-ons are the right decisions.  As the article states, who knows if co-op will actually release in 3 months.  There focus should be polishing the main components and when that is done and complete come back to add on features.



Ryuu96 said:

I'm not sure why we should call for Bonnie's head based on a Reddit post that didn't even say she was the problem, heck, it doesn't mention her at all but he straight up suggests that Chris Lee was the problem, Lol. Imo, it would be a massive undertaking for anyone to run a studio like 343i on their own, Halo is a massive IP and it has so much expectations set on it, the pressure is enormous and there's a lot more expected of Halo compared to other games of its type, such as Battlefield or CoD.

Imo, I think Bonnie should co-run the studio with Joseph Staten, this ain't 2006 anymore and things are a lot harder nowadays, I don't think the solution should be to replace one person with another but rather to split responsibilities and share the burden (I mean, Joe did quit Bungie once only over an argument he had with Marcus Letho which gave us Halo 3's mess of a story).

This ain't about woke points for Microsoft either, y'all need to take a look at Bonnie's career as to why Microsoft put her there, she's a Microsoft employee first and foremost so likely someone they think they could have trusted more, she has 20+ years inside of Microsoft with roles ranging from Lead Producer, General Manager overseeing Production for all titles within Microsoft Game Studios, which included titles like Zoo Tycoon, Counter Strike, Gears of War, Jade Empire, Psychonauts, Mass Effect, Halo 3, Halo 3: ODST, Halo Reach.

Tim Schaffer even mentioned he only sold after talking to Bonnie Ross. Like her or not, she seems to be widely respected both inside and outside of Microsoft.

There should be questions asked of her leadership but I don't envy the position she is in, I also don't think it has all been bad, there has been positives aspects of 343's Halo, Infinite was definitely a big screw-up and that is Bonnie's responsibility but I struggle to fully pin the blame on Bonnie for Halo 5 content issues and MCC broken mess when for all we know, it could have been Microsoft forcing a date, we simply don't know the issues but we do know Microsoft has in the past been very unfair with release dates.

Also fact is, Microsoft is a business, if Bonnie wasn't making them big money, they'd dump her ass, Lol. (Not saying that's a good thing but Microsoft isn't keeping her around cause 'woke')

But as a studio head what has Bonnie done for Halo? The franchise has been in decline ever since 343i took over. The side games dont sell as much as they used to. The television show has gone through multiple partners and is taking close to a decade for the first episode to be premiered. Yes Halo still makes a lot of money (Halo 5 did 400m in like a weekend) but there needs to be abalance between making money and putting out a product that the fans will enjoy.



Ryuu96 said:

There is a massive amount of assumptions being thrown around and Armchair deving which is something that personally annoys me, it's easy for us to sit here with absolutely no experience in the industry, throwing around accusations from the comfort of our chairs, when the fact is we don't have a clue what is going on or who is to blame for what.

Unless there's a leak which says that Bonnie is to blame for absolutely everything, I for one will just wait for Jason's investigatory piece on the matter but I stand by my comment that two people should be leading 343 due to the enormity of the task, y'all can suggest Joe to lead it solo but that dude straight up left his team once due to an argument, an argument! Lol. There is A LOT of pressure that comes with running a franchise like Halo.

The thing is we do know who to blaim. The person who leads the studio. They are the leader for a reason. And it's not like this was a little mistake that happened in a short period fo time. Every Halo mainstream game has had major problems under her. Halo 4 had a terrible MP, okay her first game we can let it slide. Halo MCC MP didnt work at launch and months after, second try sure lets hope the third game isnt a mess.  Halo 5 had a misleading marketing campaign and a poorly executed story, and no splitscreen. Halo Infinite 6 years later is missing core features like forge and co op. The Halo TV show has been in the works for almost a decade we havent even gotten a glimpse of it. Halo spinoffs like Halo Wars 2 have flopped compared to the ones that launched when Bungie was handling the IP.

As someone who's job is to oversee the Halo IP she's done a pretty bad job at doing so. We cant keep letting her get away with this. Microsoft should give her the head of Xbox position and let someone else handle the IP.



shikamaru317 said:
ice said:

I understand people want to play Halo Infinite this year and with you! But let's not downplay the importance of Co-Op Campaign, an iconic feature that has been with Halo since CE at launch. It's weird seeing "minority" being thrown around by gamers that play on Xbox

Spoiler!
(Just Kidding, don't kill me)

. It isn't some obscure feature that barely anyone uses, you can be pro no delay and still be disappointed and give 343 a strongly worded letter.

The H5 7% figure I see commented a few times is completely with no context. For completing any co-op mission on heroic. There's no solo variant of this, and when you consider only 57% completed the first mission on ANY difficulty, it doesn't look nearly as bad. Completing Every co op mission on heroic is 1.77% completing every mission on Heroic is 6.34%. so 4.57% did it solo. So over 25% of players played it co-op. That's isn't no small chunk. Roughly One in Four gamers played it on co-op.

Looking at Halo 4's achievements that also have two comparable ones.

Bromageddon - completing campaign on heroic or harder on co-op - 5.77% (xbox tracking)

TA:85,625 players

I need a Hero - Complete the Campaign on Heroic or Harder - 10.16% (xbox tracking)

TA:128,092 Players

Over half on both TA and Xbox's tracking are co-op completions

This is how a lot of people experience Halo... if you don't care about it, cool but let's not deny the importance. It's also beyond weird seeing outspoken people being labeled as "whiners" (talking the internet as a whole not the forum), as if expecting or wanting a complete game is a problem...

I also get that "negative talk" can be kinda draining in here so I'll try to make this my last post where I mention it.   

I just really hope 343 delivers a solid halo game at the end of the day.

While the percentages for co-op campaign completion are decent, especially that 10% one, they are definitely still a minority compared to the overall playerbase, if only 10% got it then 90% didn't.

More concerning to me is the fact that the Reddit 343 leaker said that the dev team wants to delay the campaign and do a multiplayer only launch in 2021, not only because of co-op, but because they will have to cut other features to make release this year, and because the dev team feels like they need more time to stomp out the many bugs they created when Staten ordered drastic, but needed changes to Christopher Lee's campaign. If the dev team wants a campaign delay, I say give it to them. A multiplayer only launch is good enough for 2021, it's what the majority of the playerbase wants to play anyway, and the MP will still move a substantial amount of Xbox Series hardware this Holiday alongside Forza Horizon 5, if they even have enough stock ready for Halo and Forza to make any difference. 

That 10% is Solo AND Co-op, and more than half came from Co-op (Co-op sitting at 5.77%). So out of people that play Campaign (Heroic or harder) We have roughly 25% of people on H5 that played it Co-op, and roughly 50% played H4 on Co-op. And As Alchy pointed out, H5 didn't have couch co-op which might explain why it's lower, but either way those are big percentages. I don't really want to keep reiterating the same point but I wanted to correct that.

As for the last bit, that is concerning. If that's true they 100% need to delay it... 



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@Poll I voted Day one, but it's more like week one lol. I plan on starting it whenever I have a bunch of free time in the week.



Funny how we blame Don Matttrick for doing a bad job at handling the launch of the Xbox One because that’s his job but people don’t want to blame Bonnie Ross for the major mistakes from Halo 4-Infinite when it’s her job. 



jason1637 said:

Funny how we blame Don Matttrick for doing a bad job at handling the launch of the Xbox One because that’s his job but people don’t want to blame Bonnie Ross for the major mistakes from Halo 4-Infinite when it’s her job. 

Probably because you nor I have no real clue on what is going on.  You can blame whoever you want since its just another opinion but blame is always what gamers seek to do so its nothing special.  I do not blame Bonnie or anyone else because there is just a lack of info and also a lack of understanding all the decisions that has led up to today.  Why waste my time blaming someone who I do not know, do not fully know what they do and do not know the structure of 343 and what they have gone through to feel the need to blame someone.  At the end of the day, it changes nothing.  343 will either ship out a solid product or they will not, until then that is the measure I put on a development team and their work.



dx11332sega said:

Whens the reviews for Psychonauts start?

I believe the embargo ends 6:00 a.m. PST (9:00 a.m. EST) today. 



Ryuu96 said:

There is a massive amount of assumptions being thrown around and Armchair deving which is something that personally annoys me, it's easy for us to sit here with absolutely no experience in the industry, throwing around accusations from the comfort of our chairs, when the fact is we don't have a clue what is going on or who is to blame for what.

There's truth in what you're saying but it is what it is. Had to stop reading or participating in any discussion regarding police work for this very reason.