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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - You're in charge of Xbox division. What would be your battle plan for Xbox Series X?

The way I see it one of Xbone's biggest failing was a lack of true killer apps.

Where PS4 and Switch keep delivering system sellers from BOTW to Smash Bros Ultimate to Pokemon and from Uncharted 4 to Spiderman to God of War, Xbox seemed to have little to no megaton system sellers of the same calibre. Hellblade 2 is a good start if it can live up to the original, but they need to build up their first parties to the point where they can deliver the same kind and quantity of killer apps Sony/Nintendo can and do.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

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curl-6 said:

The way I see it one of Xbone's biggest failing was a lack of true killer apps.

Where PS4 and Switch keep delivering system sellers from BOTW to Smash Bros Ultimate to Pokemon and from Uncharted 4 to Spiderman to God of War, Xbox seemed to have little to no megaton system sellers of the same calibre. Hellblade 2 is a good start if it can live up to the original, but they need to build up their first parties to the point where they can deliver the same kind and quantity of killer apps Sony/Nintendo can and do.

I am gonna say something that has annoyed people in the past but I stand by.

Nintendo games does a much better job selling hardware than Sony. People arent buying Playstation and Xbox for exclusives any where near the rate of Nintendo. However, better software to increase hardware sales is not a bad idea.

I feel mistakes made early on are far more impactful on sales throughout the gen. Primarily, the high price to bundle in Kinect. Even if MS had a few adventure games like Spiderman or Uncharted, I think it would only boost sales a few million at best.

Bear in mind PS4 was trouncing X1 before any game you mentioned existed. Its not like they were tied and the gap grew with games you mentioned. Unless youre gonna tell me Knack and Killzone were killer apps.

Again, MS is making a lot of obvious choices in regard to hardware and greater focus on software. So keep doing that and hope they win people over.

On a side note, I think Xbox content was much better this gen then its given credit for. The only glaring hole in my mind was 3rd person adventure games, which is where Sony has thrived. However, MS had better games in other genres. Halo 5 and Gears 4 werent amazing but better than Sony shooters. Forza games were amazing this gen, better than GT Sport on its own. Sony moneyhat a fighter partly because they didnt make one. For me it was worth having both consoles for different experiences.

However, these are consoles heavily reliant on 3rd parties. People can get their fix in many genres on either Xbox or Playstation. Sony didnt have to make a good shooter because they can rely on CoD, BF and Destiny. Meanwhile MS didnt make great adventure games, but users still had the latest Assassin's Creed, Tomb Raider, etc.

Nintendo does a better job moving hardware with exclusives because they virtually have their own audience via unique games.



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i would invest in exclusive games and market the hell out of it that you can only play these games on an xbox and not pc. the pc needs to be dropped asap its going to hurt them in a major way



...not much time to post anymore, used to be awesome on here really good fond memories from VGchartz...

PSN: Skeeuk - XBL: SkeeUK - PC: Skeeuk

really miss the VGCHARTZ of 2008 - 2013...

The_Liquid_Laser said:

I have two answers, a selfish answer and a strategic answer.  

My selfish answer is make games that I have been wanting and no one else is making.  A good example is what Nintendo did with Breath of the Wild.  I was very disappointed with the Zelda series for about 25 years, and I would have gone to any system that gave me that old school Zelda feel.  Appropriately, Nintendo was the one to get Zelda back to it's roots.

You were very disappointed with the Zelda series for about 25 years? Wow, you have a very selective taste, even Ocarina of Time falls into that very disappointing period.

And how did Breath of the Wild gave you that old school Zelda feel? It plays completely different than Zelda 1, Zelda 2 and a Link to the Past. Shouldn't be "Minish Cap", "A Link Between Worlds" and the remake of "Link's Awakening" be better candidates for that precious "old school Zelda feel"?

Or a lot of Indie games similar to the old Zelda games?



Mr Puggsly said:
derpysquirtle64 said:
- Fix marketing, it's awful right now, even though there are some improvements in terms of messaging and creating cool stuff like gamepass, the shows like Inside Xbox actually do more harm than promotion IMO. Anyone who would watch this, would probably turn off from Xbox brand even more.
- Fix international appeal. They barely even try outside of US and Western Europe. Basically no presence of Xbox brand at all. No ads, no promotions, even no official Xbox local branches in some countries. And to make it even worse, in some cases (like Russia for example), it even got even worse this year when they closed the local MS Store and the ability to buy subscriptions directly. It all looks like they abandoned the market completely to Sony and Nintendo. And that's after Phil Spencer's words about trying to reach 2b gamers.
- Have a Series X price on part with PS5 at least. Better to be cheaper, but it is probably not happeniing especially if they have more powerful console. With the current positions on the market, Xbox can't be more expensive than Playstation even if it provides a better product.

I dont really agree with the marketing problem, but big marketing will come for the console launch. I dont really watch Inside Xbox but I feel its good. If people werent watching Inside Xbox they would stop doing it.

I actually feel Xbox games on PC is a great idea for international sales. A vast majority of consoles sales is in the western markets, Japan is the only exception. MS is not going to fight for the Japanese market either, Nintendo is stealing it from Sony as well.

I dont know how consoles do in Russia but I am guessing not great. If a MS store there closed its probably because poor sales. MS might have more success there with PC software sales.

When Phil said he was interested in other markets, well I am not sure what that means. Its more like west is the focus but you hope for the best in other markets. Sony for example doesent really care about Japan, they dont make games for Japan, they just hope 3rd parties help them thrive in Japan. Sony's primary focus is making games the west wants.

Therefore I would suggest MS keep raising the bar in software quality, continue putting games on PC and hope for the best in international markets. I think of it this way, any software sales MS gets on Xbox or PC goes in the same pot. So increased revenue from increased software sales means they can spend more on games. A game like Sea of Thieves may have have been saved by PC success.

Series X doesen't need to be priced at par with PS5 if MS undercuts them with Lockhart, ideally $100 less. But I agree only having a more expensive Xbox next gen would be bad.

If the rumors are accurate and PS5 is only 9TF. Then a 4TF Lockhart would be fine for playing the same games at a lower res. In theory Sony would be giving MS an edge if this happens, but vice versa if we just have a Series X at a higher price.

I specifically mentioned this because it completely contradicts what they are trying to push - expanding their services to reach 2b players. They've made a certain move that alienates the entire market from their services. It doesn't matter if Xbox consoles have good sales or not in the region. It kills any potential that Microsoft has in terms of PC offerings mindshare or xCloud in the future. Because you would still get the same bad experience on these two. Which pushes users to competitors ecosystems who does not do such awful strategic moves in the region. Of course MS can resort to Steam first party software sales and completely leave the market but they will lose a ton of revenue in the result.



 

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derpysquirtle64 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I dont really agree with the marketing problem, but big marketing will come for the console launch. I dont really watch Inside Xbox but I feel its good. If people werent watching Inside Xbox they would stop doing it.

I actually feel Xbox games on PC is a great idea for international sales. A vast majority of consoles sales is in the western markets, Japan is the only exception. MS is not going to fight for the Japanese market either, Nintendo is stealing it from Sony as well.

I dont know how consoles do in Russia but I am guessing not great. If a MS store there closed its probably because poor sales. MS might have more success there with PC software sales.

When Phil said he was interested in other markets, well I am not sure what that means. Its more like west is the focus but you hope for the best in other markets. Sony for example doesent really care about Japan, they dont make games for Japan, they just hope 3rd parties help them thrive in Japan. Sony's primary focus is making games the west wants.

Therefore I would suggest MS keep raising the bar in software quality, continue putting games on PC and hope for the best in international markets. I think of it this way, any software sales MS gets on Xbox or PC goes in the same pot. So increased revenue from increased software sales means they can spend more on games. A game like Sea of Thieves may have have been saved by PC success.

Series X doesen't need to be priced at par with PS5 if MS undercuts them with Lockhart, ideally $100 less. But I agree only having a more expensive Xbox next gen would be bad.

If the rumors are accurate and PS5 is only 9TF. Then a 4TF Lockhart would be fine for playing the same games at a lower res. In theory Sony would be giving MS an edge if this happens, but vice versa if we just have a Series X at a higher price.

I specifically mentioned this because it completely contradicts what they are trying to push - expanding their services to reach 2b players. They've made a certain move that alienates the entire market from their services. It doesn't matter if Xbox consoles have good sales or not in the region. It kills any potential that Microsoft has in terms of PC offerings mindshare or xCloud in the future. Because you would still get the same bad experience on these two. Which pushes users to competitors ecosystems who does not do such awful strategic moves in the region. Of course MS can resort to Steam first party software sales and completely leave the market but they will lose a ton of revenue in the result.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying.

It seems pretty evident consoles aren't popular in Russia, therefore MS putting their games on PC means more people there have access to their games. With that logic I feel MS caters to markets that primarily do PC gaming more than competitors like Sony and Nintendo.

I am not sure what Steam 1st party has to do with anything.



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Conina said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

I have two answers, a selfish answer and a strategic answer.  

My selfish answer is make games that I have been wanting and no one else is making.  A good example is what Nintendo did with Breath of the Wild.  I was very disappointed with the Zelda series for about 25 years, and I would have gone to any system that gave me that old school Zelda feel.  Appropriately, Nintendo was the one to get Zelda back to it's roots.

You were very disappointed with the Zelda series for about 25 years? Wow, you have a very selective taste, even Ocarina of Time falls into that very disappointing period.

And how did Breath of the Wild gave you that old school Zelda feel? It plays completely different than Zelda 1, Zelda 2 and a Link to the Past. Shouldn't be "Minish Cap", "A Link Between Worlds" and the remake of "Link's Awakening" be better candidates for that precious "old school Zelda feel"?

Or a lot of Indie games similar to the old Zelda games?

You are judging based on 2D vs 3D.  That can have a big impact, but there is something more important going on.

Old School Zelda, especially the original NES game was about freedom and exploration.  NES Zelda was an open world game by 2D standards.  You could go to the dungeons in any order.  You could explore the whole overworld with 3 hears if you were good enough.  Also, the combat was challenging.  I actually died in Zelda 1 and I actually died in Breath of the Wild.  I get bored in Zelda games that have no challenge.  Part of the fun in exploring is knowing that the land is dangerous.  When I live I feel kick ass.  All of that is true in both Zelda 1 and Breath of the Wild.  That is why Breath of the Wild feels Old School.

Also, they when they designed Breath of the Wild, they designed a game like Zelda 1 first to test all of the mechanics for Breath of the Wild.  BotW really is Old School Zelda underneath even if it doesn't look like it.



Mr Puggsly said:
derpysquirtle64 said:

I specifically mentioned this because it completely contradicts what they are trying to push - expanding their services to reach 2b players. They've made a certain move that alienates the entire market from their services. It doesn't matter if Xbox consoles have good sales or not in the region. It kills any potential that Microsoft has in terms of PC offerings mindshare or xCloud in the future. Because you would still get the same bad experience on these two. Which pushes users to competitors ecosystems who does not do such awful strategic moves in the region. Of course MS can resort to Steam first party software sales and completely leave the market but they will lose a ton of revenue in the result.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying.

It seems pretty evident consoles aren't popular in Russia, therefore MS putting their games on PC means more people there have access to their games. With that logic I feel MS caters to markets that primarily do PC gaming more than competitors like Sony and Nintendo.

I am not sure what Steam 1st party has to do with anything.

The main business for all the big three is not selling their own games, but selling other publishers games. That's why they make their hardware and services in the first place. So, what I'm saying is that not matter how much more popular PC is than Xbox in certain market, abandoning their own services there is a huge mistake, because all the revenue made from the big Steam audience through sales of first party games won't offset the overall revenue got through sales of Xbox games even if Xbox userbase is way smaller in that region. It means that Microsoft is shrinking their market presence instead of expanding it. Which contradicts what Phil Spencer said in terms of what they are planning to do. And also, I think you won't argue with this one - the current MS strategy is to sell as more GamePass subscriptions as possible. If until 2019 you could do it directly without a hassle from a console and now you can't do it anymore without going to retailer and buying a code, it means that MS took a step back with this one.



 

Mr Puggsly said:
curl-6 said:

The way I see it one of Xbone's biggest failing was a lack of true killer apps.

Where PS4 and Switch keep delivering system sellers from BOTW to Smash Bros Ultimate to Pokemon and from Uncharted 4 to Spiderman to God of War, Xbox seemed to have little to no megaton system sellers of the same calibre. Hellblade 2 is a good start if it can live up to the original, but they need to build up their first parties to the point where they can deliver the same kind and quantity of killer apps Sony/Nintendo can and do.

I am gonna say something that has annoyed people in the past but I stand by.

Nintendo games does a much better job selling hardware than Sony. People arent buying Playstation and Xbox for exclusives any where near the rate of Nintendo. However, better software to increase hardware sales is not a bad idea.

I feel mistakes made early on are far more impactful on sales throughout the gen. Primarily, the high price to bundle in Kinect. Even if MS had a few adventure games like Spiderman or Uncharted, I think it would only boost sales a few million at best.

Bear in mind PS4 was trouncing X1 before any game you mentioned existed. Its not like they were tied and the gap grew with games you mentioned. Unless youre gonna tell me Knack and Killzone were killer apps.

Again, MS is making a lot of obvious choices in regard to hardware and greater focus on software. So keep doing that and hope they win people over.

On a side note, I think Xbox content was much better this gen then its given credit for. The only glaring hole in my mind was 3rd person adventure games, which is where Sony has thrived. However, MS had better games in other genres. Halo 5 and Gears 4 werent amazing but better than Sony shooters. Forza games were amazing this gen, better than GT Sport on its own. Sony moneyhat a fighter partly because they didnt make one. For me it was worth having both consoles for different experiences.

However, these are consoles heavily reliant on 3rd parties. People can get their fix in many genres on either Xbox or Playstation. Sony didnt have to make a good shooter because they can rely on CoD, BF and Destiny. Meanwhile MS didnt make great adventure games, but users still had the latest Assassin's Creed, Tomb Raider, etc.

Nintendo does a better job moving hardware with exclusives because they virtually have their own audience via unique games.

Of course Nintendo exclusives are more easily tied to sales.  As you said they don't have any third parties you could blame sales on.  Sony had momentum going into the gen because of the great exclusives on the more expensive PS3 helping it overtake 360 at the end including a stellar 2013 lineup on PS3.  Also I don't see how forza having a gagillion installments makes it better.  Id rather have 1 game that gets patched and content updated as the only reason to redo a racing sim is for a new gen or maybe twice in the same gen if there's a big enough gap.

Sony exclusives sell consoles but they're more of a pebble on the scales that tilts it towards them instead of Xbox.  Customer A buys a PS4 because it has GT.  They don't buy any other exclusives and get a bunch of third party other than that

Customer B buys a PS4 because of GOW and does the same.

Customer C does the same but with infamous

And so on

So if an exclusive sells a couple million it very well could have been the pebble that tilted that mostly third party buyer into getting PS4 for a million of them even if they're not primarily into exclusives like a Nintendo customer might be.  Didn't mean it didn't influence the sale.  

Harder to track but still a definite selling point as much or more so (as the numbers indicate) than a few more pixels on third party games 



I am Iron Man

derpysquirtle64 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying.

It seems pretty evident consoles aren't popular in Russia, therefore MS putting their games on PC means more people there have access to their games. With that logic I feel MS caters to markets that primarily do PC gaming more than competitors like Sony and Nintendo.

I am not sure what Steam 1st party has to do with anything.

The main business for all the big three is not selling their own games, but selling other publishers games. That's why they make their hardware and services in the first place. So, what I'm saying is that not matter how much more popular PC is than Xbox in certain market, abandoning their own services there is a huge mistake, because all the revenue made from the big Steam audience through sales of first party games won't offset the overall revenue got through sales of Xbox games even if Xbox userbase is way smaller in that region. It means that Microsoft is shrinking their market presence instead of expanding it. Which contradicts what Phil Spencer said in terms of what they are planning to do. And also, I think you won't argue with this one - the current MS strategy is to sell as more GamePass subscriptions as possible. If until 2019 you could do it directly without a hassle from a console and now you can't do it anymore without going to retailer and buying a code, it means that MS took a step back with this one.

At this point I feel like the main business on Playstation and Xbox is selling subscriptions. Selling 1st party, 3rd party and subscriptions are all revenue streams though.

For Nintendo, they likely get big money selling hardware at a profit and their 1st party games sell best. I assume their subscription service is doing well.

Steam in comparison is basically just in the business of software sales. Their hardware efforts failed, SteamOS failed and major PC releases are often skipping Steam. The market has changed.

MS losing their market share in Russia isnt a big deal if it was a small market. How many units did they sell there? I would be surprised if its even a 100K. Resources are better spent trying to grow in the west via more/better software and discounts.

I know what Phil said about expanding in other markets, but I feel its also a waste of resources. Russia likes PC gaming so Xbox games on PC may attract them. They can even subscribe to Gamepass.

If people in Russia have to go to a retailer to get MS subscriptions, well that sucks. But I dont know much about that market and why that is.



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